OR OR - Stephanie Warner, 43, Ruch, 4 July 2013 - #3

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I hadn't forgotten Stephanie. The trial around the case of a lovely Chenango County, NY lady who 'went shopping' and never came back, has been taking place. I could not miss that for the world because it was deeply suspicious to me, and a lot of others, when her husband first reported her missing in 2012.

Jennifer Ramsaran's body was found eventually, and despite her husband manipulating people to get them to discourage others from looking at him, or for her (there were accusations of internet predators, racism etc) he was eventually arrested. This week, a jury unanimously found him guilty of her murder.

I think there is a similarity in that, when Stephanie's remains are found (because sadly, I believe she is deceased), any charges and trial will be based on purely circumstantial evidence. But that kind of evidence can and does result in convictions all the time. I believe like Jennifer's killer, whoever disappeared Stephanie sees themselves as:

1: Too clever to be caught

2: Some kind of victim themselves, because they are feeling the pressure their own actions have caused

It's the most twisted logic imaginable.
 
I keep thinking of the Erin Corwin case too, where someone is reported to have said: "They'll never find her'.

But Erin was found, dropped deep into an old mine. It took a lot of resources and determination to find her though. But it is possible. And experts will volunteer for such searches, if cost is an issue. Someone has to ask them though.
 
Thanks for your always thought-provoking posts, Zwie. Both cases you mentioned are encouraging in their own way. I'm happy to hear that Jennifer's husband was found guilty!

I'm curious who has to ask for the expert volunteers to search...family, LE? I know in Erin's case LE had been able to narrow the search area down. As I recall, we talked about the mine shafts here in Jackson county when Erin was found (post #108). The hard part is finding them.
 
In Erin's case police asked for help from specialist cave teams. That is the only reason she was found. A probe or whatever it's called had filmed something suspicious on a ledge about (if I recollect right) about 120feet down a 250feet shaft. Only highly experienced, specialist cave teams could get down there, and even so, one was injured by falling rocks. But they found her, and vital weapon evidence.

The only difference (maybe?) between Steph and Erin's case is that LE had a phone ping indicating roughly which area to search. I don't know if there is any such location info in Stephanie's case.

O/T ish. Today I peered down a well that's over a thousand years old and 300feet deep. It's an endless, endless way down. The only good thing is, a body down so deep is not subject to the animal activity found on the earth's surface. Evidence is better preserved. Even in water.
 
Family can always ask specialists for help too. Sometimes a request from them is even more powerful than a request from police. As long as police are willing to work with searchers....
 
zwiebel said:
Family can always ask specialists for help too. Sometimes a request from them is even more powerful than a request from police. As long as police are willing to work with searchers....
Click to expand...

I hope someone can inform Stephanie's family of this option. Of course, it's possible that this kind of search has already been done, but not publicized.

As far as we know, the area where Stephanie could be found is limited by the round trip distance her car was driven late that night in the times that registered on her alcohol sensor. If there were no hits by cadaver dogs on her property or in her car, it is possible that she was taken elsewhere while she was alive. It would have to be a place familiar and easily accessible to the POI. Stephanie's car was an off road vehicle.

Detective Henderson believes that she did arrive home in the late afternoon of July 4. Since she never called her mother and did not give her cat its pill, it seems that she was incapacitated quite early.

Another theory we've tossed around is that the POI somehow rendered her unconscious after their last known stop en route home, took the wheel and drove up into the mountains. After killing her and hiding her in a cave or mine, he may have returned to her home and played that infamous game of Texas Hold 'Em on her computer. Later that night, he could have returned to the mountain in her car with materials and equipment to secure the scene from discovery. That scenario would also give LE a general area to search, based on the information they received from the alcohol sensor. But it's also possible that the alcohol sensor data makes this theory impossible. We just don't know.

No matter how it happened, the big question is...did he have help?
 
I don't know if the person who disappeared Stephanie had help or not, but I am certain there are others who have a firm idea of what happened to her. If they don't come forward and tell what they know, they will probably face charges one day.
 
A travelling nurse has been missing since Sunday in Oregon. She was last known to be heading to Crater Lake and though she is older than Steph, her long, light hair and similar build and height has been worrying me. I was thinking that maybe, just maybe, there's some serial predator out there, roaming Oregon.

Anyhow, I've been glued to her case for that reason, and have just seen that missing nurse Andria Terrell has been located safe in Crater Lake.

So I'm back to thinking of Person of Interest Lennie Ames, in Stephanie's case. And rooting for Det. Henderson.
 
So many people on this thread have expressed opinions that Stephanie did not make it home from the parade. I was just wondering what kind of evidence they found to make Dectective Henderson say that he thinks that she DID make it home? Just thinking out loud again. :(
 
Sad Eyes said:
So many people on this thread have expressed opinions that Stephanie did not make it home from the parade. I was just wondering what kind of evidence they found to make Dectective Henderson say that he thinks that she DID make it home? Just thinking out loud again. :(
Click to expand...

I don't recall that he has ever explained his thinking. There are a lot of facts that LE doesn't reveal, so we have to assume he must have some reason for believing that Stephanie made it home. Or else he has no solid reason to believe that she didn't.

Personally, I'm not overly invested in either scenario. Either one could be correct. Or neither. But I think it's important to consider all possibilities and think outside the box. An accurate timeline could help locate Stephanie. Driving her up Sterling Creek Road and its offshoots deep into the mountains on the way home from Ashland is very different from taking her away from her house in a different direction, into Josephine county, for example. JMO
 
Lilibet (or anyone),
Forgive me if this has been asked/answered before (don't recall seeing details on this in the threads), but do we know if anyone actually saw Stephanie at/near her vehicle when leaving the parade? My question is really what that very last observation was (the closest in timeframe to her getting into her vehicle/leaving), if anyone ever came forward to say what they saw or heard. ?
 
ThinkThinkThink said:
Lilibet (or anyone),
Forgive me if this has been asked/answered before (don't recall seeing details on this in the threads), but do we know if anyone actually saw Stephanie at/near her vehicle when leaving the parade? My question is really what that very last observation was (the closest in timeframe to her getting into her vehicle/leaving), if anyone ever came forward to say what they saw or heard. ?
Click to expand...

Excellent question, Think. According to one of the Fuel Committee volunteers, Stephanie and Ames were seen arguing before she left the booth in Lithia Park and it seemed that something was amiss.

http://kobi5.com/news/local-news/item/lennie-ames-person-of-interest.html#.VCwxMmK9KSM

http://www.ktvl.com/template/cgi-bi...-stories/stories/archive/2013/08/B0hOvB4c.xml

Detective Henderson has said in a recent update that she was seen on a video at a gas station on the way home. She was also seen at a convenience store not far from the gas station. Those are the last sightings.
 
I have been here for a long while and have been wondering about upstairs and downstairs all this time. thanks to you both for asking and answering.
 
Zwiebel was talking about circumstantial evidence...so if Stephanie always called her Mom and close friend each day but didn't that day -- and also never gave her sick pet medicine that day -- but was supposedly online late at night playing cards...isn't that one piece of pretty strong circumstantial evidence?
 
ThinkThinkThink said:
Zwiebel was talking about circumstantial evidence...so if Stephanie always called her Mom and close friend each day but didn't that day -- and also never gave her sick pet medicine that day -- but was supposedly online late at night playing cards...isn't that one piece of pretty strong circumstantial evidence?
Click to expand...

BBM

Just a minor correction about the online poker playing time...the last time that game showed on her FB page was a little after 6:00 pm. We've never been able to determine whether that means a game was actually played at that time and if it was played at home or on her phone, and whether Stephanie was the player. But we have no evidence that anyone played late at night. The only late night activity is the use of her car, recorded by the alcohol monitoring device.

So the missed phone calls and cat pill are circumstantial evidence that either she wasn't at home for very long before being incapacitated, or that she never made it home. IIRC Her friend Dicentra does not believe that Stephanie played the poker game that night. She claims that Stephanie would have made the phone call first because she liked to drink while playing poker, and wouldn't make her calls after drinking.

Apparently there isn't enough evidence, circumstantial or otherwise, to move Ames from POI to SUSPECT status officially at this time. But when there is an arrest, all these little pieces of circumstantial evidence will fit together with hard evidence to paint a detailed enough picture to get a conviction IMO.
 
Thanks, Lilibet. Do we know if she always had a set time she called her Mom?
 
ThinkThinkThink said:
Thanks, Lilibet. Do we know if she always had a set time she called her Mom?
Click to expand...

I remember that Dicentra did mention a time, but I can't remember. New Orleans is two hours later than Oregon, so I'm thinking maybe 7:00 or 8:00 pm Oregon time. I'll see if I can find that post. As I recall, she talked to her Mom a couple of times each day. She would have been eager to tell her all about the parade. Obviously, she was incapacitated before her normal time to call. Her poor Mom, waiting for the call that never came. I can't begin to imagine. :(
 
Lilibet said:
I remember that Dicentra did mention a time, but I can't remember. New Orleans is two hours later than Oregon, so I'm thinking maybe 7:00 or 8:00 pm Oregon time. I'll see if I can find that post. As I recall, she talked to her Mom a couple of times each day. She would have been eager to tell her all about the parade. Obviously, she was incapacitated before her normal time to call. Her poor Mom, waiting for the call that never came. I can't begin to imagine. :(
Click to expand...

Me neither. It's terribly sad. Her poor Mom is right. :( That is what's so heartwrenching about these missing person cases, besides the obvious concern about what has befallen them -- it's the loved ones who are living in that constant state of not really knowing. I think most of us know the grief of losing a loved one and how that is so painful, but at least you can go through a process with that...you never forget those you love and lose -- it hurts like nothing else -- and life is never the same, but there is that known aspect to it that allows for the coping/a level of acceptance and healing to begin... I can't imagine there is the same sense of coming to grips with it when a loved one is missing, as how can your brain and heart completely rest with such a painful unknown? I hate to think of anyone going through that.:(

Tx. for the answer on time, Lilibet. That gives me a good enough idea of what I was wondering.
 
Are there any other photos of Steph, so we can make a new poster?
 
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