GUILTY OR - Whitney Heichel, 21, Gresham, 16 Oct 2012 #3

[Elainera]

I also lighted a candle at http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=WH

I don't think that I have heard police confirm the two other gas station stops that you are referring to. I have only heard them confirm the shell stop at 9:15. I also didn't hear them confirm that there was in fact a female in the passenger seat at one of the stops. I think that was speculation? All these stops and different parks are confusing. My guess based off of the time line and now the fact that JH has been moved to Clackamas county is this: He was sitting in the car when she got into it, he took her to Dodge park, the murder happened and that is now confirmed by the police and the reason for the move.. he then got the gas at the shell at 9:15 from there drove to Larch mountain to dispose the body and then dropped the car off at the walmart. I'm guessing maybe he stopped at the gas station to throw cops off for them to think that it really was Whitney who took off on her own and used her card there.

As for the timeline - I vaguely remember LE said in one the earlier press conferences (Thursday?) that the car had been both at D Park and at L Mountain prior to the gas station at 9:14. Sorry don't have time to find a link or video now, maybe someone can dig?

Thanks for sharing with us your thoughts re a motive.

It crossed my mind also, before I even knew who the guy was.
(At one point I even thought her husband was involved in her being missing.)

But, last night after looking at and studying all her FB photos of her and her husband Clint,
I was/am sure that she was very much in love with her husband and wouldn't think of having an affair.
However, I have been wrong before!!!

I looked at and read comments at her mom's and her sisters' and some of her friends' FB, also.

WH just seemed to be too happy and too much in love with Clint and, according to some of
her FB comments, was very much looking forward to having children with him.

bbm

Maybe she didn't have an affair with him, but what if he had raped her before? And she didn't want to tell anyone because of being afraid that other church members wouldn't believe her and she would be shunned. But then changed her mind (maybe because she found out she's pregnant) and told JH that morning that she would tell her husband and that's when he freaked out .. .

I have an even more sinister thought re what he did with her after he killed her which would tie in with the above ...

 

[peace9274]

I also lighted a candle at http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=WH




As for the timeline - I vaguely remember LE said in one the earlier press conferences (Thursday?) that the car had been both at D Park and at L Mountain prior to the gas station at 9:14. Sorry don't have time to find a link or video now, maybe someone can dig?



bbm

Maybe she didn't have an affair with him, but what if he had raped her before? And she didn't want to tell anyone because of being afraid that other church members wouldn't believe her and she would be shunned. But then changed her mind (maybe because she found out she's pregnant) and told JH that morning that she would tell her husband and that's when he freaked out .. .

I have an even more sinister thought re what he did with her after he killed her which would tie in with the above ... :(

Wasn't there mention somewhere of him doing something "inappropriate" or abusing a corpse?

 

[Elainera]

Wasn't there mention somewhere of him doing something "inappropriate" or abusing a corpse?

Yes. A member had found it online but wasn't sure if she'd be allowed to post the link here.

Extremely disturbing to think along those lines isn't it.

 

[webaddict]

posters keep referring to the fact that somehow the volunteers seemed to have inside information as to where to possibly search. there was a MSM article that said they all kinda connected dots between ATM usage and possible scenarios, but i keep thinking back to her smartphone. wasn't there a post that clint went online and was able to track some of the movement of her phone by the GPS setting on it? if he had found that at home, he could have supplied that info to searchers even before LE released the info as fact.

also, gotta ask, becuz it is driving me crazy and i can't find it online when i google it what is BBM?

 

[webaddict]

my internet connection finally cooperated to open the wedding photos. just a little slow

who would have known?! i agree with everyone else who has commented on how happy and "normal" they look here. what a devastation for his wife!

 

[pugglesworth]

I don't.
In fact tonight, in the last news report/video posted here, was the first I heard anything at all about his family... other than they were JW.

In fact, even the house in which he grew up, to me, is... ummm ... interesting!

I saw that too, the house! I am a local and found it quite odd too.

 

[white rabbit]

I was friends in HS with a JW girl who committed suicide our junior year. We were all really devastated. We were talking about a memorial for her at school and we were wanting to get flowers for her funeral, but we were told by school administrators that her parents requested that we not send flowers because they were taking care of everything within their church. They would not tell us if there was going to be a funeral, or where she was laid to rest, because it was private and taken care of within the church.

I think that JWs like to keep things private within their church. I am not saying this with judgment.

This does, however, make me wonder if maybe there was a problem with this Holt guy... a problem that they were attempting to deal with within the church, and maybe it got out of control. I just think that if they were neighbors, okay I get it. But to keep insisting that they were only acquaintances, but then we find out that he is married, his wife is Whitney's FB friend, and then that they attended the same church -- it just seems like we aren't getting the full story, and totally IMO/MOO/just speculating... I wonder if it's because they'd rather that story not be in the media (i.e. people knowing about JH being a stalker or having behavioral problems, etc.).

bbm...great post. you might have the right idea here.

it would also explain much of how friends/family appeared at search sites and recovered evidence prior to or concurrent with investigators.

o/t jonathan's booking into clackamas county:
http://www.clackamas.us/safetyapp/inmates/inmate.jsp?in=2012031099

 

[crazymomof4]

Wow they both look a lot different. She still looks as happy as she does though from the wedding photos and he on the other hand looks troubled in this picture, he just looks very lost and depressed in this shot. Just my opinion.

I agree completely. His smile, what there is of it, seems forced and it doesn't carry to his eyes, which seem vacant. "Troubled", as you said, is a good word to describe it.

 

[crazymomof4]

He definitely got married inside a Kingdom Hall. I would recognize the inside of one immediately. To be married in one he would have had to be a baptized Jehovah's Witness and in good standing meaning he had to be leading a very upstanding life with no strikes against him. I wonder where and why he went wrong.

I picked up on that too. I really really hope he and Whitney were not childhood friends!

 

[Elainera]

also, gotta ask, becuz it is driving me crazy and i can't find it online when i google it what is BBM?

It means "bolded by me" - when you quote someone and bold some of the text to make it easy to see what your reply is in regard to.

I was friends in HS with a JW girl who committed suicide our junior year. We were all really devastated. We were talking about a memorial for her at school and we were wanting to get flowers for her funeral, but we were told by school administrators that her parents requested that we not send flowers because they were taking care of everything within their church. They would not tell us if there was going to be a funeral, or where she was laid to rest, because it was private and taken care of within the church.

I think that JWs like to keep things private within their church. I am not saying this with judgment.

This does, however, make me wonder if maybe there was a problem with this Holt guy... a problem that they were attempting to deal with within the church, and maybe it got out of control. I just think that if they were neighbors, okay I get it. But to keep insisting that they were only acquaintances, but then we find out that he is married, his wife is Whitney's FB friend, and then that they attended the same church -- it just seems like we aren't getting the full story, and totally IMO/MOO/just speculating... I wonder if it's because they'd rather that story not be in the media (i.e. people knowing about JH being a stalker or having behavioral problems, etc.).

bbm

I think they definitely had a problem with him before. In fact, didn't someone say here before he was not attending their meetings anymore? I wonder what happened? Was he inappropriate with other women, or even with Whitney?

When she went missing they might have suspected him immediately.

 

[crazymomof4]

I don't.


In fact, even the house in which he grew up, to me, is... ummm ... interesting!

Could someone post a link to the video/pix of the house he grew up in?

 

[Melancholy]

:welcome5: Yankeeballer. That is unbelievable!

Yes and the wedding ceremony itself is most definitely in a Kingdom Hall, as I recognize several things that make it stand out as such. Man, he looks so happy and normal

 

[white rabbit]

Could someone post a link to the video/pix of the house he grew up in?

http://www.kcby.com/news/local/Repo...s-of-same-church-175174271.html?tab=video&c=y

@ :53

 

[Melancholy]

He definitely got married inside a Kingdom Hall. I would recognize the inside of one immediately. To be married in one he would have had to be a baptized Jehovah's Witness and in good standing meaning he had to be leading a very upstanding life with no strikes against him. I wonder where and why he went wrong.

Yep, I too recognized it, and you are right.

 

[crazymomof4]

I was friends in HS with a JW girl who committed suicide our junior year. We were all really devastated. We were talking about a memorial for her at school and we were wanting to get flowers for her funeral, but we were told by school administrators that her parents requested that we not send flowers because they were taking care of everything within their church. They would not tell us if there was going to be a funeral, or where she was laid to rest, because it was private and taken care of within the church.

I think that JWs like to keep things private within their church. I am not saying this with judgment.

Just would like to give an "insider's" insight here. The decision of family of your deceased friend kept the funeral private was completely a PERSONAL decision. Perhaps the fact that the girl took her own life played into that decision. (??) This should not be thought of as a standard JW practice. I've been to many JW funerals and recently we had one for my dad. Workmates, schoolmates, neighbors etc... all non-JW's are more than welcome both to the memorial talk at the Kingdom Hall (church) and to the meal afterward. Their flowers, cards and other expressions of sympathy are accepted with the utmost of appreciation.
In fact in their statement, WH's family made a point of thanking those persons who were NOT members of their faith in the second paragraph
"Yet the response we experienced from others has also proved that there many good people in our community. The loving concern from ones that didn't even know Whitney or her family has deeply touched our hearts. The kind expressions, and support from perfect strangers has confirmed to us that there is much good in people, and this good moves them to display "loving acts of kindness". And though, while this event in our lives is tragic, we saw the positive effects it has had on this community."

Just wanted to clear this up bc I often see someone's personal choice being attributed to a "JW thing". For example a JW friend chose not to vaccinate her kids. Someone misunderstood and began telling others that JW's don't vaccinate their kids-- which is absolutely untrue.

 

[surrogatemom]

I wasn't around here much over the weekend, but just saw this.. note the BBM.

@chadcarterpdx

In a statement from Whitney Heichel's church early this AM they say they're "completely shocked" an occasional member could be involved.

https://twitter.com/chadcarterpdx/status/260345024175300609

ETA: Ah yes, KGW just read the congregation's statement saying he was an infrequent member.

 

[Melancholy]

Just would like to give an "insider's" insight here. The decision of family of your deceased friend kept the funeral private was completely a PERSONAL decision. Perhaps the fact that the girl took her own life played into that decision. (??) This should not be thought of as a standard JW practice. I've been to many JW funerals and recently we had one for my dad. Workmates, schoolmates, neighbors etc... all non-JW's are more than welcome both to the memorial talk at the Kingdom Hall (church) and to the meal afterward. Their flowers, cards and other expressions of sympathy are accepted with the utmost of appreciation.
In fact in their statement, WH's family made a point of thanking those persons who were NOT members of their faith in the second paragraph
"Yet the response we experienced from others has also proved that there many good people in our community. The loving concern from ones that didn't even know Whitney or her family has deeply touched our hearts. The kind expressions, and support from perfect strangers has confirmed to us that there is much good in people, and this good moves them to display "loving acts of kindness". And though, while this event in our lives is tragic, we saw the positive effects it has had on this community."

Just wanted to clear this up bc I often see someone's personal choice being attributed to a "JW thing". For example a JW friend chose not to vaccinate her kids. Someone misunderstood and began telling others that JW's don't vaccinate their kids-- which is absolutely untrue.

BBM. Absolutely.

Also, I'm not sure where it was (it was back before my account was registered and I was reading these forums), a link to a wiki article about our beliefs led someone to feel it would imply that we would "shun" a woman that was raped.

I have no clue what the wordage used on wiki is, that would cause that conclusion to be drawn, but that absolutely is not true.

Also, my theory, MOO, since there has been comment that he wasn't an active member or the congregation anymore...is that possibly he was 'excommunicated' (we use the term disfellowshipped) for inappropriate behavior that he refused to cease...or perhaps was doing something that he knew, from a religious standpoint, was inappropriate and stopped going out of guilt on his conscience? Either way, I don't disagree that perhaps something he did, perhaps involving WH, has triggered him to snap.

 

[peace9274]

https://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&so...2671&spn=0.00042,0.000666&t=h&z=21&iwloc=ddw0


If you use your mouse to do a turn-around and to "drive" down the street,
you'll see that most of the people take better care of their yards and houses.

JH's boyhood house/home does not appear to be typical of the neighborhood.

 

[Elainera]

http://www.kcby.com/news/local/Repo...s-of-same-church-175174271.html?tab=video&c=y

@ :53

It looks poor, right? I feel for the parents. That's hard (I mean what happened, not the lack of money, although that might also be hard). The neighbour also looks really shocked.

As for the wedding photos, I guess they won't be up much longer - who wants to adverstise their business with the face of a murderer?

Amazing how happy they looked. Very devastating for his wife as well.

 

[AvalonBlue]

Maybe it's just my over active imagination, however I do feel so strongly that there are still many developments in this case that will be revealed and shock us even more.

I hope I am wrong -- and, I just can't shake this feeling...