GUILTY OR - Whitney Heichel, 21, Gresham, 16 Oct 2012 #3

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Maybe JH's childhood home looks so void of love and life because the poor parents have shut everything down now, hoping to keep the media at bay. At the moment it certainly is a very sad place, because the people in it will be as depressed as you can a parent imagine to be. Maybe you are picking up on that.
 
I just want to be very careful that we are not targeting Holt's family- his wife NOR his parents. We have no idea what his childhood was like based on what we see outside his childhood home. Many lower income people cannot afford frivolous things like flowers, and they are certainly not going to have toys outside with adult children. I know *something* is missing in Holt, but we can't blame his parents. We don't know what occurred in his life to cause him to kill. MOO

I don't blame them at all, it was purely observation that the house isn't 'warm'. He is solely responsible for his own actions.

I grew up in a poor, rat infested single wide trailer with open sewage running in the back yard, and rotting floors with an alcoholic, unmedicated bi-polar emotionally and physically abusive mother and a drug addicted father who brought strange women into the house while I took care of my little sister in the middle of a poor, gross town where my grandmother sent me off to be 'babysat' by the community pedophile...

I turned out normal and didn't become a monster.


My point being, parents may or may not contribute to a child's adult life, but in the end, that child grows up and is responsible for their actions. He may or may not have had a 'fair shake' at life, but his parents didn't kill WH, he did.

I think my 'observation' on the house lacking warmth has grown into something more than what I (and perhaps others) intended which was just that it seemed emotionless, kind of like his eyes in that pic his wife had on her FB cover photo.
 
I wonder if his appearance is via video (like skyping? but through legal avenues) because they are concerned about attempts on his life if he is transported?

Not sure why this is sometimes done but i have seen many appear from jail via video. I have been following the Bob Bashara case and sometimes Bob appears via video but mostly in Court himself.
 
As Melancholy points out childhood experience did not attribute to how her life turned out. (Kudos to you and so very sorry that was your experience). I am of the belief that sometimes it is a bit of both with a Sociopath. Nature/Nurture. Sometimes it is purely Nature. Can debate this issue til the end of time. I think Holts motive was his evil sociopath mind. What does evil seek to destroy? That which is good. Whitney was a young beautiful vibrant young lady. Holt had access living across to watch her. Let his obsession grow. Some benign conversation at times. Just my opinion but at this stage i think he was an evil sociopath. If it wasn't Whitney it was going to be somebody at some point :moo:
 
There is so much speculation going on here. At this point, we just don't know all the details about anything. Just like everyone else, I want to know the truth about what happened and why, but we need to patiently wait for the real truth to come out instead of speculating too much about things that may not have any merit whatsoever. I am also one of Jehovah's Witnesses (was not raised one and became one in my early 20's) and would be more than happy to answer any questions or concerns you may have; just send me a personal message. My heart just breaks for Clint and those who knew and loved Whitney and they continue to be in my thoughts and prayers.
 
I don't blame them at all, it was purely observation that the house isn't 'warm'. He is solely responsible for his own actions.

I grew up in a poor, rat infested single wide trailer with open sewage running in the back yard, and rotting floors with an alcoholic, unmedicated bi-polar emotionally and physically abusive mother and a drug addicted father who brought strange women into the house while I took care of my little sister in the middle of a poor, gross town where my grandmother sent me off to be 'babysat' by the community pedophile...I turned out normal and didn't become a monster. My point being, parents may or may not contribute to a child's adult life, but in the end, that child grows up and is responsible for their actions. He may or may not have had a 'fair shake' at life, but his parents didn't kill WH, he did.

so sorry for everything you went through and that you did not have a better childhood. cyber hugs to you!
 
There is so much speculation going on here. At this point, we just don't know all the details about anything. Just like everyone else, I want to know the truth about what happened and why, but we need to patiently wait for the real truth to come out instead of speculating too much about things that may not have any merit whatsoever. I am also one of Jehovah's Witnesses (was not raised one and became one in my early 20's) and would be more than happy to answer any questions or concerns you may have; just send me a personal message. My heart just breaks for Clint and those who knew and loved Whitney and they continue to be in my thoughts and prayers.

Agreed! Many facts we may *never* have answers to, the best I can do is pray for WH's husband, family, friends, JH's wife, parents, family, friends that they find the peace they need right now.
 
Wasn't there mention somewhere of him doing something "inappropriate" or abusing a corpse?

"Abuse of a corpse" could be something as simple as moving her body from one spot to another after death. Not necessarily extra gruesome.
 
does anyone know of a transcript of the GMA interview this morning, in addition to what has been posted? my internet connection is so slow that i can't watch the videos posted. i could search online for a transcript but it would take me forever to find it. anyone just happen to have a link?!
 
Not sure why this is sometimes done but i have seen many appear from jail via video. I have been following the Bob Bashara case and sometimes Bob appears via video but mostly in Court himself.

I think just to cut back on transportation costs?
 
Regardless of the fetus or w/e, how can he be charged with 3 counts of agg. murder for a single crime? How does that work out legally?

There are lots of provisions that can bring an aggravated murder charge--pre-mediated, murder together with another felony crime such as kidnapping, or murder to hide the identity of the killer or to hide other felony crimes such as rape.

I can see that all of these situations may be present. LE doesn't have to pick just one. They will load up the charges as much as the evidence will allow. Let the evidence and jury decide which applies. Better to overcharge and drop charges than not charge enough and have it be too late to add charges later.
 
does anyone know of a transcript of the GMA interview this morning, in addition to what has been posted? my internet connection is so slow that i can't watch the videos posted. i could search online for a transcript but it would take me forever to find it. anyone just happen to have a link?!

Thanks to MidwestMama she wrote this! Hope it helps.

on Good Morning America.
review of case.
Husband speaking:
married 1 yr 9 mo.
suspect is married also.
He and wife (WH)took care of their plants and cats while suspect and wife were away,
Husband helped suspect fix his motorcycle recently.
Whitney was beautiful person full of life.
reached out to suspect's wife, no reply.
FBI guy - (missed his name).
Appears they have a lot of physical evidence.
It appears there was no relationship between suspect and WH. (romantic)
 
nope...i can't find any announcement. my guess is that they're waiting for the arraignment?

speaking of, have you guys discussed the charges. i know i missed a bunch of pages yesterday.

http://www.clackamas.us/safetyapp/inmates/inmate.jsp?in=2012031099
Charge(s) Bail Status
ORS.163.095 - MURDER-AGGRAVATED $0
ORS.163.095 - MURDER-AGGRAVATED $0
ORS.163.095 - MURDER-AGGRAVATED $0

he's has three counts of aggravated murder listed. what three? there aren't that many that apply:

http://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/163.095

1a, 1b, 1e, and possibly 2d apply. is that accurate?

TIA expecially to any legal beagles here...

Really good question. 2(d) basically brings in any intentional felony murder. I wonder if they would have three separate counts like that if there were three different felonies?
 
I think just to cut back on transportation costs?

I agree. The Courts have been hit so hard with budget cuts. I think thats the way it should be done for anyone in jail that is.
 
There is so much speculation going on here. At this point, we just don't know all the details about anything. Just like everyone else, I want to know the truth about what happened and why, but we need to patiently wait for the real truth to come out instead of speculating too much about things that may not have any merit whatsoever. I am also one of Jehovah's Witnesses (was not raised one and became one in my early 20's) and would be more than happy to answer any questions or concerns you may have; just send me a personal message. My heart just breaks for Clint and those who knew and loved Whitney and they continue to be in my thoughts and prayers.

BBM

I agree with you totally, that we don't know all the details and we wish we did know more about this case.
For me it's hard to be patient, when I get as involved in a case such as this one. I want to know NOW! LOL

But I do believe it's OK to come to Websleuths to talk about cases and to give our opinions and to speculate
and to interact with others who are also interested in the same cases.

Plus... it's very helpful for me, emotionally, to talk about a case; to share my feelings and my thoughts.
And to hear how others feel.

In the 8 yrs I've been a member of Websleuths, I have made some very close and dear friends who are also WS members.
Some, I've actually driven long distances to meet. Some are just FB friends of mine.

I feel I have a special bond with WSers that I don't feel I have with family and friends,
who aren't as interested in "true crime cases" as I am.

So, for me, when I come here to speculate and theorize and vent and laugh and cry and scream and shout and
let my anger out about cases with other WSers... most of the time it's a release for me that I can find no where else.

And it helps my "impatiently waiting for more info/details" re the case.
 
What a heartbreaking case :(

I apologize if this has already been mentioned but, it's sticking with me that he used her card to get gas. I live in MN and all gas is self-service soo really, one could steal a debit/credit card and use it to buy gas. Some stations require a zip code but if you know of one that doesn't, you could use anyone's card there.

With Oregon being an attendant-service state (I didn't even know that was a thing!) do attendants tend to verify the owner of the card verbally/visually (ID)/or with a signature? Do they even handle the card or does the person that's driving do all that? I just feel like if someone was handed a card by a man they'd at least want to verify that someone named Whitney was in the car? Or is it all pretty casual and they don't even check the name.....?

It would be pretty darn brazen to go to these stations with a broken window and use a card with a name that didn't match your gender, no? And I think she must have still been alive at this point if it was, in fact, her in the car.

I don't think she was alive or in the car at 9:14am at the gas station. I realize there is a report of an attendant saying he saw her. I just think its an erroneous report.

I suspect he abducted her at 6:45am, took her to Dodge park, assaulted and murdered her there, transported her body directly to Larch Mtn, then went to Troutdale. At this point he is driving on fumes, but he still had to dispose of evidence, so supposedly, he got a "small amount of gas" around 9:14am. (Who would drive around a congested area with a hostage/body in the car during peak commute time on a business day?)

After getting the "small amount of gas", he distributed her phone and other personal affects in trash bins and around the area. Then he ditched the car, parked backwards, hoping no one would spot the plate, at the edge of the Wal-mart parking lot (IMO, it's amazing it was found so quickly). It was a very bold action to remove the front plate at Larch Mtn b/c he could have been pulled over for not having it. I guess he thought it was less risk than having the plate visible at the car's abandonment spot.

Then he left the area. Who knows where he went from there.

This is obviously total speculation. And I am mind-boggled about the what/where/how/why of the events between 6:45 and 9:14am. It's incredibly fast. And why assault/kill at Dodge Park (assumption based on the jurisdiction) and then drive the body to Larch Mtn? Isn't Dodge Park a big, woodsy area?

But how did LE know he had been at Dodge Park and Larch Mtn? There are a gazillion forest areas around this area. He could have easily driven down 26 toward Mt Hood and left her in the woods there. That was closer to the alleged murder spot, (again, speculation).

When entering Dodge Park and Larch Mtn, does one need to pay an entrance fee and get a receipt? Maybe that's what LE found in the car which allowed them to narrow in on these areas. Although disposing of WH's personal affects but not such receipts is totally stupid. But how else could they have figured it out? If WH really did have a "find my phone" app on her smartphone, as suggested by a previous poster (brilliant thought, btw), that's an incredible stroke of luck for LE.
 
BBM

I agree with you totally, that we don't know all the details and we wish we did know more about this case.
For me it's hard to be patient, when I get as involved in a case such as this one. I want to know NOW! LOL

But I do believe it's OK to come to Websleuths to talk about cases and to give our opinions and to speculate
and to interact with others who are also interested in the same cases.

Plus... it's very helpful for me, emotionally, to talk about a case; to share my feelings and my thoughts.
And to hear how others feel.

In the 8 yrs I've been a member of Websleuths, I have made some very close and dear friends who are also WS members.
Some, I've actually driven long distances to meet. Some are just FB friends of mine.

I feel I have a special bond with WSers that I don't feel I have with family and friends,
who aren't as interested in "true crime cases" as I am.

So, for me, when I come here to speculate and theorize and vent and laugh and cry and scream and shout and
let my anger out about cases with other WSers... most of the time of it's a relief for me that I find no where else.

And it helps my "impatiently waiting for more info/details" re the case.

ITA
As long as its respectful victim friendly and within WS guidelines I think its okay...
 
BBM

I agree with you totally, that we don't know all the details and we wish we did know more about this case.
For me it's hard to be patient, when I get as involved in a case such as this one. I want to know NOW! LOL

But I do believe it's OK to come to Websleuths to talk about cases and to give our opinions and to speculate
and to interact with others who are also interested in the same cases.

Plus... it's very helpful for me, emotionally, to talk about a case; to share my feelings and my thoughts.
And to hear how others feel.

In the 8 yrs I've been a member of Websleuths, I have made some very close and dear friends who are also WS members.
Some, I've actually driven long distances to meet. Some are just FB friends of mine.

I feel I have a special bond with WSers that I don't feel I have with family and friends,
who aren't as interested in "true crime cases" as I am.

So, for me, when I come here to speculate and theorize and vent and laugh and cry and scream and shout and
let my anger out about cases with other WSers... most of the time of it's a relief for me that I find no where else.

And it helps my "impatiently waiting for more info/details" re the case.

Hi! I do know what you mean. I agree that Websleuths is a GREAT community of people. I come on here a lot (mostly as a lurker - lol!) to follow different cases that interest me. It's hard to be patient, isn't it?!? :) I look forward to hearing more accurate details soon!
 
Boodles I think you are right and that could be the abuse of corpse other posters have been talking about, moving the body from Dodge Pak to Larch mountain.
 
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