GUILTY OR - Whitney Heichel, 21, Gresham, 16 Oct 2012 #4

[gwenabob]

uh not to split hairs or anything but dictionary.com defines Adultery as:voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and someone other than his or her lawful spouse.

This was not an affair, and certainly not voluntary on WH's part. So technically it's not "adultery"
But it is sex with someone outside the marriage so it does free the innocent spouse.

I would venture to say it was adultery for him, but not his victim.

 

[nikb]

I've only noticed one post earlier today where someone said they thought they saw a mug shot of AH when they googled her name and they posted the link. And the consensus was it wasn't her. Has there been more? I have no idea why someone is sleuthing AH, bored maybe?
Just for the record I personally believe her to be an innocent party.

You're right, and I think it's been cleaned up quite a bit. Thanks mods! Sorry, I hit "refresh" too often and saw several things before they were deleted I think.

 

[gwenabob]

I am getting really upset to see anyone still insinuating anything negative about CH.

I'm with you. It leaves me completely flummoxed. Somebody has been reading too much fiction, IMO.

 

[gwenabob]

If he dumped the gun in the bushes it wasn't because he was inherently stupid. He graduated with a 3.35 gpa, and that was even higher in junior high--over 3.6 if I recall correctly. People can make unwise choices in life, but the fact is...your intelligence remains fairly stable. One might lose reason due to extreme mental illness (psychosis) and behave irrationally, but basic IQ remains the same. It remains the same even if one is emotionally distressed or depressed. (In fact, depression is statistically more common in highly intelligent people; they have more conflict because they take in more, weigh more, but that's another topic...)

<snip>


To me, it appears as though a lot of thought has gone into making this crime look like not much thought went into it. A lot of planning (with maybe some back-pedaling adjustments here and there) has gone into making a guy who graduated with a GPA of 3.35 look preposterously stupid. But I suppose it helps that he looks so utterly distraught, because now everyone can shake their heads, say he's crazy, and think he lost his intelligence on Oct. 16 along with his will to live.

Re: the GPA--I will try very hard to be diplomatic. A 3.35 GPA can mean very different things depending on which school one attends. I have been a Portlander all my life and can tell you that Parkrose is not exactly one of the higher performing schools in the area. If he got a 3.35 in Lake Oswego or Lincoln HS, I would say that is pretty good. Parkrose is in a blue collar, working class neighborhood. Just show up regularly and that's a 3.0 right there.

I have a relative by marriage whom I believe to be FAS. She does not have the physical features, but does have the personality issues. She is a college student and is getting reasonable grades. She does ok because she is able to manipulate others into helping her more than they should so she gets passing grades. She has done that all her life and is an expert by now. Grades don't always tell the whole story. I really think there is something missing in JH's brain.

 

[eyes2lookatu]

Actually it's not that much travelled...except at that time of morning. Like most cities, the suburbs encroach more into the surrounding area. This is a really, heavily wooded, forested area, and small farms and ranches are dotted in those wooded plots. It's a twisty stretch (I use it sometimes when I go into Sandy because it's beautiful)...I believe the speed limit is 35 to 40, but reduces significantly because of curves. My question is this....why, if he killed her there, why didn't he dispose of her body there? There are certainly many places there that he could have done that, unseen. It's certainly not been the first time someone disposed of a body out there. Why did he spend the time and energy to go all the way up to Larch Mountain? Some of you don't know the area...it's quite a drive. Not that close to where he was. And the roads aren't straight. Why did he take her up to Larch Mountain?

This is exactly what I have been stuck on... why go back through Gresham, get gas, then head out to Larch? He could have just as easily gone through Sandy for gas and headed towards Mt. Hood or something, found a random logging road.... I suppose he knew he wanted to ditch the car somewhere, but he still could have came back from Sandy to ditch it so he could walk home (or rather, get a ride from friends hours later).

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

<snipped>

First, there's a huge problem in Oregon with grade inflation. It is not a difficult thing to graduate with a 3.35 GPA; that's a B-average. Heck, even state colleges and universities are infamous for inflated grades.

I think my only point was that he wasn't a moron...in fact, above average in intelligence.

Second, there is no way at all that J.H. is psychotic. Absolutely not. Have you ever been around someone in the midst of a psychotic episode? It looks nothing like his behavior thus far. I know that we had this discussion earlier, when I stated that schizophrenics and people suffering from psychotic illness typically aren't violent towards others. We both agreed that yes, sometimes people who are psychotic can commit violence. Of course they can, and they do. Nevertheless, I beg you to learn a bit more about what happens during a psychotic episode. His attempts to cover his crime were disorganized and, arguably, stupid. But don't mistake his disorganization for psychotic disorganization... trust me in that psychosis looks very different.

Yes, I remember our discussion. I'm not sure of the state of his mind, frankly, except that he's obviously very distraught. My comments were not made to try to propose that he was having an episode. Here's the context:

Originally Posted by PoirotryInMotion View Post
If he dumped the gun in the bushes it wasn't because he was inherently stupid. He graduated with a 3.35 gpa, and that was even higher in junior high--over 3.6 if I recall correctly. People can make unwise choices in life, but the fact is...your intelligence remains fairly stable. One might lose reason due to extreme mental illness (psychosis) and behave irrationally, but basic IQ remains the same. It remains the same even if one is emotionally distressed or depressed. (In fact, depression is statistically more common in highly intelligent people; they have more conflict because they take in more, weigh more, but that's another topic...)

See, what I was saying that I didn't believe he was an idiot, or stupid--that people don't lose their basic intelligence even when undergoing mental stress. (Even if psychotic, his intelligence wouldn't disappear--just his reason.) Does that make sense?

<respectfully snipped> -- (though my heart goes out to you. We had a similar problem in my extended family).

Finally, regarding the license plate: it is not illegal to have only one license plate on your car in Oregon. The catch is, you had to have been issued only one. I often see cars driving around with only one license plate, particularly BMWs, Mercedes-Benz and Audis. Sometimes, in fact, people have a European license plate placed OVER their front Oregon plate... dunno why, but I've seen it a lot.

So simply not having a front license plate would not alert an officer to pull someone over as long as that person were driving appropriately and not breaking any traffic rules. Here is what the law states (BBM):

If only one license plate is issued, it must be displayed on the rear of the vehicle. If two plates are issued, one must be displayed on the front of the vehicle and the other on the rear of the vehicle. Plates must be in plain view so as to be easily read by the public and law enforcement (See ORS 803.540).

ETA: one more thing re: pleading guilty. As a former paralegal, I can assure you that not a single defense attorney out there will let a felony case plea "guilty"... NEVER. EVEN IF THEY ARE INTENDING TO WORK OUT A PLEA DEAL. They always plea not guilty as a matter of procedure, and the deal-making goes on behind the scenes. If/when they work a deal, the plea is changed to "guilty" at the time the plea deal is presented to the court and accepted by the judge.

Yes, I'd agree. I highly doubt he took that license plate off so he could be pulled over! My point was about the choice of the one he took off...if people were alerted to her plates and car description, they would have more observation time with the rear plate. The rear plate, being on the dirty end of the car, would look more like a naturally dropped clue as well, since people would have surmised it came off in the brush.

 

[gwenabob]

If he dumped the gun in the bushes it wasn't because he was inherently stupid. He graduated with a 3.35 gpa, and that was even higher in junior high--over 3.6 if I recall correctly. People can make unwise choices in life, but the fact is...your intelligence remains fairly stable. One might lose reason due to extreme mental illness (psychosis) and behave irrationally, but basic IQ remains the same. It remains the same even if one is emotionally distressed or depressed. (In fact, depression is statistically more common in highly intelligent people; they have more conflict because they take in more, weigh more, but that's another topic...)

Re: the Febreze--cleaning the odor of decay is more in keeping with a deodorizing spray like Febreze, actually. Miles apart from trying to mop up blood, etc. from a close-range shooting with four hits. It's a weak clue at best, and the question remains about where the bottle (presumably with only his incriminating fingerprints on it) came from.

Re the license: If the removal of the license plate was for the purpose of delaying ID of the car, then why did he remove the front one? If he wanted to make it look accidental, the rear plate would've been the one to choose--that end of the car was muddy and obviously had been through some off road experience. But he removed the plate from the clean end.

And he did remove it, because it was obvious he knew it was gone before even getting out of the car when he intentionally backed the car into the parking space at Walmart to hide the remaining plate against the bushes. But...whoever parked that car there also knew they'd be looking for the car, and that it would very likely get noticed soon, even without the license plate:

&#8226;24-hr. lot with video surveillance (like the surveillance at the ATM machines)
&#8226;Broken out front passenger window
&#8226;Blood and brain matter evidence visible through open window.

So, getting back to the removal, if he knew police would be looking for his car, why remove the front one, when the back one would be the one that those in pursuit (in his lane) would be able to see? It's much more common for people to identify rear plates of fleeing vehicles or cars traveling in front of them than for someone to read one coming at them on the opposite side of the highway.

So my reasoning tells me that maybe car ID and pursuit were not the most important (or sole?) reason for removal of that plate. And when I consider the fact that he 'gave' the license plate clue to authorities by tossing it up there on the mountain where the body was rather than just slipping it under his seat and dumping it in a dumpster somewhere further away, I also have to consider other possible reasons. Okay, he's in a panic you might say. Well, if I were the perp, the evidence I'd be most panicked about being caught with coming down that mountain would NOT be the plate that might be stashed under my seat, but the two guns still warm with the sad evidence of shooting someone at close range in that car.

The license plate was key to finding the body. The body and the weapon are the two clinchers in tying together an investigation. Think of ALL the possible places a vile murderer could've hidden that telling plate, and on the mountain where the body was would've been the LAST one to come to mind for a perp. There could hardly be a more identifiable clue. All the other clues were down off the mountain (and plenty of them).

The same is true with the guns. Think of ALL the places you could possibly think to hide smoking guns and 1) at my place of business, or 2) at my local police station would be the LAST 2 places on God's green earth I would hide my smoking guns. There could hardly be a more identifiable and discoverable hiding place.

To me, it appears as though a lot of thought has gone into making this crime look like not much thought went into it. A lot of planning (with maybe some back-pedaling adjustments here and there) has gone into making a guy who graduated with a GPA of 3.35 look preposterously stupid. But I suppose it helps that he looks so utterly distraught, because now everyone can shake their heads, say he's crazy, and think he lost his intelligence on Oct. 16 along with his will to live.

One nation, under God, with liberty and JUSTICE for all. Did you know that a person can't be convicted on their confession alone? The evidence still has to support their confession. And now that JH (finally) has a lawyer, it sounds like maybe the lawyer isn't so convinced either. Last I read, the plea was 'not guilty.' (Any corrections on that out there?)

Yes, he plead "not guilty." Doesn't mean a thing. A judge simply cannot and will not accept a guilty plea at this point on a capital case. Not in Oregon. He couldn't have plead "guilty" if he had done it in front of 500 witnesses.

 

[nikb]

This is exactly what I have been stuck on... why go back through Gresham, get gas, then head out to Larch? He could have just as easily gone through Sandy for gas and headed towards Mt. Hood or something, found a random logging road.... I suppose he knew he wanted to ditch the car somewhere, but he still could have came back from Sandy to ditch it so he could walk home (or rather, get a ride from friends hours later).

I keep wondering if he and Whitney, or he anyway, had some sort of connection to the various places. Maybe the first time he saw her was near a lake (or even the lake he allegedly killed her at?). Maybe he had pictures of her at this lake, or at Larch mountain? Maybe he fantasized at one point about living with her in the apartment complex where her phone was found? I definitely get the sense they didn't 'hang out' together regularly but did the couples ever do anything together, like camping, maybe even only once?

I have no idea and I"m just speculating, not basing this on rumors even, just crazy thoughts in my head as I try to understand what happened. IMO the places he went just make so little sense, I feel like there's got to be a reason or reasons behind at least some of them. IMO.

 

[Boodles]

This is exactly what I have been stuck on... why go back through Gresham, get gas, then head out to Larch? He could have just as easily gone through Sandy for gas and headed towards Mt. Hood or something, found a random logging road.... I suppose he knew he wanted to ditch the car somewhere, but he still could have came back from Sandy to ditch it so he could walk home (or rather, get a ride from friends hours later).

Maybe this is why...http://web.multco.us/pressrelease/2012/10/24/upper-larch-mountain-road-closes-winter

"Multnomah County Transportation will close the upper section of Larch Mountain Road in the Columbia Gorge today, Thursday, October 25 at 9 a.m. for the winter season. Every autumn the county closes upper Larch Mountain Road by installing a snow gate near mile post 10. The closure protects the traveling public from adverse weather conditions and reduces maintenance costs associated with snow removal. The gate is opened each spring. With the recent arrival of snow at higher elevations, several motorists have needed assistance at the upper parking area."

I don't know where at Larch Mtn WHs body was placed. If it was past MM10, it could have been a long time before people had access that area to potentially discover her remains (sorry) and other evidence once the road closed for the winter.

She was murdered and put there 1 week and 2 days before the road closed for the winter.

 

[gwenabob]

Finally, regarding the license plate: it is not illegal to have only one license plate on your car in Oregon. The catch is, you had to have been issued only one. I often see cars driving around with only one license plate, particularly BMWs, Mercedes-Benz and Audis. Sometimes, in fact, people have a European license plate placed OVER their front Oregon plate... dunno why, but I've seen it a lot.

So simply not having a front license plate would not alert an officer to pull someone over as long as that person were driving appropriately and not breaking any traffic rules. Here is what the law states (BBM):

If only one license plate is issued, it must be displayed on the rear of the vehicle. If two plates are issued, one must be displayed on the front of the vehicle and the other on the rear of the vehicle. Plates must be in plain view so as to be easily read by the public and law enforcement (See ORS 803.540).

You are kind of right, and kind of wrong about the license plate issue in Oregon. Years ago it was OK to have only one license plate displayed on your car. You could get away with not having one on the front, but they changed that a few years ago and now you MUST display both a front and back license plate. Yes, some vehicles are issued only one plate, and they only have to display that one plate, but automobiles are not included in that list:

"A single license plate is issued to mopeds, motorcycles, trailers, campers, antique vehicles, and special interest vehicles, while two license plates are issued to all other types of vehicles registered by DMV, including passenger vehicles and trucks (See ORS 803.525)."

So, cars DO have to show both plates. Some other types of vehicles do not.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

There is zero connection between being a JW and reverting to one's maiden name. If you have happened to notice that, it is merely coincidence, and is purely personal preference.
Someone "could" be disfellowshipped for committing a crime.Depends on the circumstances. I have a feeling tho, JH will be disfellowshipped.
And as for one member of a couple being disfellowshipped, that has no bearing on whether someone changes their name back to their maiden name if they divorce. Some keep their married name, some change it back. Again, personal preference. Some keep their married name even when they divorce because they have children and wish to keep continuity for them.
There is no hard and fast rule as far as name changes go, totally a personal choice.

Thank you for clarifying!

 

[DigiB]

Hopefully snipping things right, second post here...

[Respectfully snipped by me]

On JH’s tossed cell phone (stolen from CH’s dresser drawer), I wonder if there were intimate photos of WH that JH took while WH was held hostage? And/or old photos of WH from when CH has possession of the phone?

I also thought this, and also thought maybe he saw something at their house, on their computers or somewhere that got him "excited".

I just googled "*advertiser censored* addiction" and from pornographyaddiction.com describing symptoms to watch for, SOME OF IT (possibly more than we know) seems applicable to JH's behavior:

-------------------------------------------

"Other smoke signals to look for are an increase in risky sexual behaviors, i.e. visiting strip clubs, prostitutes, or massage parlors. A detachment from financial responsibilities or the making of irresponsible financial decisions may manifest itself. The *advertiser censored* addict often thinks “It’s all over for me anyway, so I’m going down with the ship.” As the addict goes on long binges, he forgets about the consequences to others, and fails to realize that often, a wife and children are on that “ship,” not knowing how close they all are to hitting an iceberg. The potential for involvement in the criminal justice system, with illegal *advertiser censored*, is common, as some *advertiser censored* addicts must continually seek more and more depraved stimulus. For many, this can be found in using child *advertiser censored*."

[snipped by me]

Lying to your family or coworkers about what you do online, or about the amount of time you spend online cannot always be proven, but “if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck . . .” you know where I’m going. *advertiser censored* is all about secrecy and having to tell lies or cover your tracks. Detachment, dissatisfaction or lack of intimacy in your sexual relationship with increasing emotional distancing, can also be the telltale signs of heavy involvement with *advertiser censored*. One of the reasons being, that with *advertiser censored* addicts, they actually become part of the fantasy, without any rejection, responsibility or consequence from a real life partner. Be on the lookout for constant mood changes, which usually show up as depression, bouts of anxiety, irritation and anger.

[snipped by me]

Listen for expressions like “I’m such a loser,” or, “how could you love me.” As you scratch your head and wonder “where did that come from?” It is almost certain that something is going on that you aren’t aware of. Why should you? Your spouse/partner hasn’t really given any indication that you can see, or that something is not right."

-----------------------------------------

My take is that the guy was quite bad in general...willing to steal, leave his friend stranded, violate the privacy of multiple neighbors, lie to his wife, download (and possibly distribute) cp, ect... While it is entirely possible he may have done more serious crimes like murder before I would think his sloppy technique would make it difficult to evade LE for long.
Perhaps he had some images on that phone and between his sociopathic traits coupled with his (possible, moo) addiction to *advertiser censored*, he concocted a plan to fulfill his fantasies.

The suspect in the Jessica Ridgeway case had a *advertiser censored* addiction as I recall reading. I wonder if this is going to become an increasing problem with greater use of tor network's "hidden web" and more constantly accessible media via mobile devices...

Maybe they were stolen or something but this guy seems to have lots of electronics for being so broke. I'm a computer programmer and he almost has almost as many computers and devices as I do....and he works at a vending machine company! Somehow I sense he had quite a vice here!

 

[nikb]

If only one license plate is issued, it must be displayed on the rear of the vehicle. If two plates are issued, one must be displayed on the front of the vehicle and the other on the rear of the vehicle. Plates must be in plain view so as to be easily read by the public and law enforcement (See ORS 803.540).

Snipped just for space,

THANK YOU for posting this! I thought this was the case but it's been driving me crazy trying to find it. I don't know if it's the same in all states, but I always remember the front plate being recommended but optional.

 

[nikb]

Maybe this is why...http://web.multco.us/pressrelease/2012/10/24/upper-larch-mountain-road-closes-winter

"Multnomah County Transportation will close the upper section of Larch Mountain Road in the Columbia Gorge today, Thursday, October 25 at 9 a.m. for the winter season. Every autumn the county closes upper Larch Mountain Road by installing a snow gate near mile post 10. The closure protects the traveling public from adverse weather conditions and reduces maintenance costs associated with snow removal. The gate is opened each spring. With the recent arrival of snow at higher elevations, several motorists have needed assistance at the upper parking area."

I don't know where at Larch Mtn WHs body was placed. If it was past MM10, it could have been a long time before people had access that area to potentially discover her remains (sorry) and other evidence once the road closed for the winter.

She was murdered and put there 1 week and 2 days before the road closed for the winter.

Wow good, and disturbing, find. I can't get that white utility truck seen at Walmart out of my head. I wonder if he (JH) was watching to be sure they worked that day and closed the road?

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Yes, he plead "not guilty." Doesn't mean a thing. A judge simply cannot and will not accept a guilty plea at this point on a capital case. Not in Oregon. He couldn't have plead "guilty" if he had done it in front of 500 witnesses.

No, it doesn't mean he's 'not guilty.' We agree. It means he's not assumed Guilty until convicted as such by the evidence.

 

[gwenabob]

I think in the next few days, I would'nt be surprised in the least if we'll learn Holt had commited other crimes, possibly murder, abduction, rape, etc over the years..
Example, when Holt's wife had him on the police blotter as "missing" for days, where did he stay? Hotels are'nt cheap especially for a guy on very limited funds...and I'm sure if he stayed at his parents home, they would've called Holt's wife pretty fast..And, I might be wrong on this, but I thought the gun shop who sold Holt the guns/ammo in June 2012, told police Holt was with someone? Any explanations welcomed...

He wasn't missing "for days." He came home 12 hours after he took off. He never spent a night away.

 

[recyclops]

Is it possible that the front license plate was already off the SUV and tossed into the back? Maybe it had fallen off previously and CH and WH had intentions to put it back on? It doesn't really make sense that he would remove it.
The only scenario I can think of is that maybe he had a master plan to back it into a parking space and in his mind thought that if he removed the front license plate that it would slow down the identification process?

 

[gwenabob]

The affidavit states that JH said they were "in a very bad situation" and "his wife is the only source of income and they are barely getting by".

I didn't find anything alluding to arguments between JH and AH over finances. From the document it sounds like they had a very distant relationship and he avoided her a lot and did not communicate with her.

Also, he did have a job at that place on Swan Island--Canteen something. So he flat out lied.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Is it possible that the front license plate was already off the SUV and tossed into the back? Maybe it had fallen off previously and CH and WH had intentions to put it back on? It doesn't really make sense that he would remove it.
The only scenario I can think of is that maybe he had a master plan to back it into a parking space and in his mind thought that if he removed the front license plate that it would slow down the identification process?

The police report stated that when the car was found, one of the two license plates was missing. Sounds like they'd been told there were supposed to be two--just like when Clint told them the wheels were muddy but had been clean. He was noting changes for the police.

 

[iamnotagolem]

Vehicle registration plates of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

License plate info for all states.