GUILTY OR - Whitney Heichel, 21, Gresham, 16 Oct 2012 #4

[Bravo]

I keep wondering if the front license plate came off during a struggle rather than being deliberately removed by JH. It's possible that Whitney fought back at some point. Seems odd to me that with everything else happening he would take the time to remove the front license plate (but not the back?) and then just leave it at the scene. Although, anything is possible - this whole thing seem so disorganized.

It does seem disorganized in places. Perhaps he just took the one plate off as he still had to drive the vehicle to Walmart. Would he not be risking being pulled over driving with no plates? He backed her SUV into that spot pretty tight.

 

[Knox]

Police: Murder suspect Holt mysteriously vanished in 2011

ORTLAND – The man accused of kidnapping, sexually abusing and killing his Gresham neighbor also mysteriously vanished for a time in 2011, prompting his friend to call 9-1-1, KGW has learned.
Jonathan Holt, 24, is accused of shooting Whitney Heichel to death and then hiding her body on Larch Mountain last week, according to the probable cause document, which said he confessed to investigators.

In this latest twist, a police report just obtained by KGW shows that back on August 18, 2011, Holt’s friend, Nathan Bargas reported him missing to police after he vanished, along with Bargas' rental car.

http://www.kgw.com/news/Police-Murder-suspect-Holt-mysteriously-vanished-in-2011-175490841.html

Thank you surrogatemom!!

Carp ... Someone better look for crimes which occurred in that specific time frame.
Interesting, that his wife is never even mentioned? Did Police speak to her during the time he was missing?

 

[Bravo]

I guess KI was able to confirm this? Oh the irony ...

Yet he worked at Subway and a Company filling vending machines????

 

[Solariis]

He could have asked her for a ride just to the MAX (light rail) station that is not too far from her work. That would have been doable and practically on the way.

You're absolutely right...the "Cleveland Ave Max Station" is right down the street from the apartment complex WH and JH lived in as well as the Starbucks she worked at. Now that you've brought this up, it's hard to tell whether she really did believe she was giving him a ride to that station right near her work or if he hid in her vehicle or had her a gunpoint from the first moment.

*sigh* on with more speculation then.

 

[msthinksalot]

Oh, an earlier one from Kyle Iboshi:

Reports show Jonathan Holt mysteriously disappeared in August 2011. Returned nearly 12 hours later explaining he had a "mental breakdown"

https://twitter.com/KyleIboshi/status/260856130538991616

BBM

Oh man... this sounds familiar.

For one, I'm thinking he must've tried something like this before. Either that, or he was thinking he was going to and chickened out, or started to make an attempt and chickened out. Or maybe he was all worked up due because he'd been actively stalking but couldn't get the (courage??) to follow through with completing an abduction. Ergo, the "mental breakdown". Or, maybe he actually succeeded but it was a prostitute or otherwise marginalized woman who wouldn't be missed straight away.

Secondly, for those of you who've been following the abduction/rape case out of Cody, WY, Jesse Speer, the defendant in that case periodically checked out as well. A bad paraphrase of what he was typed on his FB was something akin to "regrouping, taking a break", etc. During the most recent "break to regroup" or whatever it was that he called his little "vacation" was the time that he abducted and sexually assaulted a girl.

 

[msthinksalot]

O/T: have you guys seen this?
http://www.kgw.com/news/kyron-horma...-pleads-5th-in-civil-depostion-175459061.html

So much sadness in OR

:furious:

 

[sweetpeas]

Yet he worked at Subway and a Company filling vending machines????

with the way the job market is right now, it's no surprise. My husband is a certified surgial tech and couldn't find a job, so he had to go back to school and get his Class A to be a trucker :waitasec:

 

[CaringCitizen]

I'm not having any trouble imagining a number of hypotheticals about his morning approach to the crime. Below is one of those hypotheticals.

I am making it up so please don't start rumours that someone said Jonathan worked at Winco or had his helmet with him or had a backpack, etc. This is one of many plausible scenarios where the things in the story are symbolic and could easily be substituted with something else. The point is to depict how EASY, and I mean easy, to obtain access to the passenger seat and start the day with Whitney.

********

I was ready for work and said goodbye to my husband and then headed over to my car on the street, like I always do. I knew from the night before, with some help from a neighbor that it wouldn't be hard to get it out of its parallel parked position. My neighbor had left plenty of room for me to move forward out of my spot in the morning. I clicked my alarm fob and it made the chirp chirp sound which unlocked all of the doors at one time.

The next thing I knew, Jonathan came out from no where and was headed toward me and approaching the passenger side of my car - he had a backpack over his shoulder and as he was removing his helmet as he hollered at me "Hey Whitney, my bike won't start again. I'm starting my new job at Winco today - can you give me a ride just this once so I'm not late on my first day"?

I was shocked by the request and felt a little creeped out but what was I going to say, "no?" I mean Winco IS just a stone's throw away from work and work is just around the corner from here. Then he said "You don't even have to drop me in front of Winco, I can walk across the parking lots from Starbucks".

I really didn't want anyone at work to see me with another man in my car but it felt like such a simple request and he was so forward about it. I'll just drop him at the Winco I thought. I said sure and then he got in.

I got the feeling he would have gotten in anyway - the doors were unlocked and he was standing right at the passenger door by this point so he could have just hopped right into the car if he wanted. He set his backpack and helmet in the floorboard and kept messing around with it as I was trying to get out of the parking spot. It was still dark outside and I am always afraid I might bump the car in front or in back of me. The SUV always gives me a hard time.

I pulled out of the spot as Jonathan continued to get stranger and he kept fiddling with his backpack between his feet. Then he brought it up into his lap. A few small turns later and I was at the highway - one more minute and he'll be out of the car. It felt like forever but I knew it would end soon. As soon as I got onto 26 though, he pulled a gun on me and said "we're going to Dodge park - just drive".

********

The backpack could have any number of things in it - all the supplies needed. But it didn't have to be a backpack. It could have been a coat. This is Northern Oregon (borders Washington State which borders Canada) and in the past few weeks the weather has clearly changed. It drops down cold in the nights and you DO need a jacket in some of the mornings.

We have also had hardly any rain for months on end but now we are getting some. I am from the south and some of the first things that struck me when I moved to the north were the length of daylight/dark and the lovely dropping of the temperature at night. Where I come from, the nights aren't that much lower in temperature than the days. People without AC really suffer because the night doesn't give the reprieve like it does here. Here, you can wake up chilly and it can take quite awhile for the day to warm up. This starts in the Fall and gets more drastic through the Winter.

By the morning of this incident our rain drought in the PACNW had already turned. This morning for Whitney would have been dark, and a little on the chilly side - and could have been drizzly too - but that doesn't really matter. Jonathan wearing a coat would have been as normal as anything you can imagine.

So whether it was a coat or a backpack that hid his supplies (gun, bags, screwdriver, anything he thought he needed) they would have been easy as pie to conceal. I think you could conceal a few things pretty easily even without the coat. In any case, backpack, coat, or neither - it all still could have worked.

When we click the alarm fob in our hands for our cars, we all know it opens all the doors at once. This is a safety detail that goes largely ignored. Anyone can hop into the passenger side door - especially if they are laying down on the other side of your car when you do the chirp chirp. So if he didn't ask for the ride, he could have just as easily gotten in at the same time as her.

I think he asked because he didn't want to make any scene or noise at the complex. I think he startled her with his forwardness and she didn't want to be rude.

We know from social psychology that once a small favor is asked of someone, they are more likely to do a bigger favor the next time. He had already asked small favors. He asked for help getting his bike started and Whitney knew her husband obliged. He asked for help taking care of his plants and Whitney and Clint obliged. These were small favors already executed. So now asking for another favor means in all likelihood that favor will be granted. There are countless studies on this - it is a fact of human behavior. Although there are many variations and nuances to the studies, in general you can call this the FOOT IN THE DOOR EFFECT.

It works like a charm.


-

 

[Elainera]

Thanks, some numbers might help, since all the points are blue...

Above the pictures is a link which brings you to the google maps page where all the points are explained.

>respectfully snipped<

I really think that, for whatever reason, he regrets his decision (i.e. what he did to WH). IMO, I think we can expect he will make a deal.

I think he's grieving. He was obsessed with her, which he most probably translated as "in love" with her. Now she's gone. Of course he regrets what he did. I also think he will make a deal.

Yet he worked at Subway and a Company filling vending machines????

Just as in the other case, the murder of Elizabeth Marriot, the perp is a certified EMT working in some kind of shop.

It was theorized in that thread that the decision to train as an EMT might have come from a wish to feel in power over life and death rather than to help people.

 

[laura08]

http://www.nwcn.com/news/oregon?fId=175490841&fPath=/home&fDomain=10202

Background on murder suspect Johnathan Holt

In this latest twist, a police report just obtained by KGW shows that back on August 18, 2011, Holt&#8217;s friend, Nathan Bargas reported him missing to police after he vanished, along with Bargas' rental car
Bargas told the investigating officer at the time that the two had gone shopping together. He said Holt decided to stay in the car while Bargas went inside the Best Buy on NW Norman Avenue in Gresham. But when Bargas came out of the store, both Holt and the car had vanished. more at link

 

[KAE]

Just a thought I had about the multiple gunshots: Given the nature of the sexual assault (oral sex) maybe she decided to fight - and bite.
Using this as a distraction, she then tried to get away, but he shot her four times in anger.
She may have thought it was her only hope of escape at that point.

 

[Knox]

Oh man... this sounds familiar.

For one, I'm thinking he must've tried something like this before. Either that, or he was thinking he was going to and chickened out, or started to make an attempt and chickened out. Or maybe he was all worked up due because he'd been actively stalking but couldn't get the (courage??) to follow through with completing an abduction. Ergo, the "mental breakdown". Or, maybe he actually succeeded but it was a prostitute or otherwise marginalized woman who wouldn't be missed straight away.

Secondly, for those of you who've been following the abduction/rape case out of Cody, WY, Jesse Speer, the defendant in that case periodically checked out as well. A bad paraphrase of what he was typed on his FB was something akin to "regrouping, taking a break", etc. During the most recent "break to regroup" or whatever it was that he called his little "vacation" was the time that he abducted and sexually assaulted a girl.

What I find interesting is he states he had a "mental breakdown". Makes me wonder if he had done something he thought might be discovered, and had a ready made excuse. See I told you I had a mental breakdown ...

Not thinking murder necessarily, more along the lines of a sexual assault.

 

[Elainera]

Someone noticed this about his photos?

In the older ones - the wedding photos and the first one that LE showed of him, where he's smiling - he looks kind of immature, his eyes look more like a child than a grown up man. There's a weakness about him, especially in his eyes, that doesn't fit at all with the other, naturally prominent and a bit large features of his face (the lips, the forehead). He looks like a mama boy.

And then the two mug shots - totally different, and I don't mean that he's looking depressed in them. The childishness is gone. Now he looks his age, a grown up, and adult. It's is sad that it took such a sad and horrific act for this transformation to happen.

 

[EmmaliLucia]

Quick legal question:

How can he be charged with seven counts of aggravated murder if he only killed one person?

 

[rosetattoo]

I keep wondering if the front license plate came off during a struggle rather than being deliberately removed by JH. It's possible that Whitney fought back at some point. Seems odd to me that with everything else happening he would take the time to remove the front license plate (but not the back?) and then just leave it at the scene. Although, anything is possible - this whole thing seem so disorganized.

I imagined that it could have come off if he plowed into some brush, maybe driving offroad to get rid of the body. I figured it got stuck and maybe he quickly backed up dislodging it.

 

[MySweetRiley]

I really hope Dateline does a piece on this case. And I hope it's Keith Morrison that gets to do it. That way they can put all the pieces together for us that just don't seem to add up. I'd also love to hear from JH's wife. I'm wondering what he told her Tuesday morning for why he left so early, why his motorcycle was still at their home, etc. etc. I would be freaking out if my husband was gone and I did not know of his whereabouts for several hours.. ESPECIALLY if he had disappeared a year prior and stated it was because he had a mental breakdown. I would probably be calling the police so I am wondering if she did when she heard about WH being missing and that helped to lead them to Holt? She is the one person who knows Holt more than any other person so it would be interesting to hear what she would have to say. I'm wondering too if he threw his phone in the lake to hide where he was, maybe his cell phone was on the whole time and maybe his wife did call him and he did answer stating he was just running errands or out with a friend whatever, and that would ping him to be at the locations where WH evidence is.

 

[surrogatemom]

I imagined that it could have come off if he plowed into some brush, maybe driving offroad to get rid of the body. I figured it got stuck and maybe he quickly backed up dislodging it.

Agreed. We have a 97 Explorer and my husband did this once. He got it caught on something, backed up, and it yanked the entire frame of the plate holder off of the bumper. (Not that I'm innocent, I did it on our van once - darn low riding front end!)

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Am I the only one thinking that possibly he had a stroke of conscience (which is baffling considering the crime he committed) and scattered her belongings and evidence because he WANTED her to be easily found. But did so in a way that he didn't feel would point directly to him?

I can see why you could wonder about this...it is baffling the way the belongings and electronic clues were scattered in so many areas that seemed key to tracing what happened, and eventually even led to finding her body before too much time passed.

The extremely ugly and violent nature of the crime and the almost gentle scattering of belongings/clues to help this case don't match.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

I keep wondering if the front license plate came off during a struggle rather than being deliberately removed by JH. It's possible that Whitney fought back at some point. Seems odd to me that with everything else happening he would take the time to remove the front license plate (but not the back?) and then just leave it at the scene. Although, anything is possible - this whole thing seem so disorganized.

Yes...I was wondering which plate it was that came off...do you have an article source that notes which one was missing when the LE found her car?

 

[surrogatemom]

Yes...I was wondering which plate it was that came off...do you have an article source that notes which one was missing when the LE found her car?

My guess is the front plate. The plate on the rear of an Explorer doesn't have a plate frame, and it sits recessed into the hatch. Where as the plate frame on the front is sticking out from the bumper (so if you walk past, your leg hits the frame - I've done it more than once).

Example of rear: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7c/'99-'01_Ford_Explorer_Limited_--_Rear.JPG

Front: http://www.videovoom.com/VideosOfCa...0/1999FordExplorer160FrontAngleDriverSide.jpg