GUILTY OR - Whitney Heichel, 21, Gresham, 16 Oct 2012 #4

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The driver of the white utility vehicle in the Walmart parking lot surveillance was located and interviewed by LE, it's in the affidavit.

The Affidavit is confusing - doesn't follow sequential order plus having to wade through the requisite ramblings typical of legal docs - so to clarify:

There are two different vehicles: a red truck and a white "utility vehicle". And, two different situations. What you are thinking of is the red truck whose driver witnessed Holt at the dumpster. Detectives were able to locate the truck owner and have a conversation with him. (Pg 36)

There is nothing in the report about identifying or locating the owner or driver of the white utility vehicle.

For information on the white utility vehicle, please see my post #843 for timeline and account taken directly from the Affidavit.

I also want to say that finding this forum is neat for me, cause I have always been a natural sleuth-er, but never knew others existed. Yucky circumstances, but very cool to find like minds. :)

Welcome to the party!
 
I still think divorce was the motivation behind this senseless murder. I think the perp had to provide evidence of infidelity so that his wife could divorce, remain in good standing and guard her ability to remarry. The latter two criteria may or may not have been important to the perp.

The perp may have had a Plan A (if the victim agreed to go along with his plan) and B (if she didn’t). In any case, apparent and complete disregard for anyone else’s feelings, the victim's free will and her right to life.

If he wanted to give his wife an options or divorce and then to remarry why not just hook up with a random chick in a bar and then tell his wife he committed adultery? Or he could have simply divorced his wife and then cheated on her which would leave her free to remarry.
 
The Affidavit is confusing - doesn't follow sequential order plus having to wade through the requisite ramblings typical of legal docs - so to clarify:

There are two different vehicles: a red truck and a white "utility vehicle". And, two different situations. What you are thinking of is the red truck whose driver witnessed Holt at the dumpster. Detectives were able to locate the truck owner and have a conversation with him. (Pg 36)

There is nothing in the report about identifying or locating the owner or driver of the white utility vehicle.

For information on the white utility vehicle, please see my post #843 for timeline and account taken directly from the Affidavit.



Welcome to the party!

Thank you! I figured I must have missed a truck in there somewhere. And thank you for the Welcome :)
 
Late to the party, joined WS around the time of Autumn's disappearance and JUST finished all 4 threads for Whitney.

Wanted to read through before mentioning something I noticed in the affidavit. I really wanna urge everyone to read it, all of it, cause there are lots of questions answered in there!!

The driver of the white utility vehicle in the Walmart parking lot surveillance was located and interviewed by LE, it's in the affidavit.

I have not seen anyone mention something I found interesting about the person that is reported to have called to say WH's vehicle was found in the Walmart parking lot...it's the same person that reportedly gave JH a ride home the night he was walking around to 'clear his head'. Weird, IMO

I also want to say that finding this forum is neat for me, cause I have always been a natural sleuth-er, but never knew others existed. Yucky circumstances, but very cool to find like minds. :)

I don't think that it's that unlikely that the same group that found the vehicle also noticed JH walking down the street. I'm assuming that when the groups were assigned to search they were doing a grid search and were assigned a particular area. They had been out looking all day and noticed their friend out walking, who doesn't stop to pick up a friend who is walking down the street?

I guess it doesn't seem that strange to me because even though I lived in a city of 130k I would inadvertently run into someone I knew almost every where I went. My husband was astonished. He had lived in the city for 6 years longer than I had when we got married, but I was always running into people we knew.
 
This is good news for Mrs Holt. I'm wondering if she's even stopped by the jail to visit or even call to speak to Holt. I'm wondering if she's broken off all communication and also even if she'll attend the trial or proceedings...Maybe she's so disgusted with Holt, she's completely written him out of life..

I hope she did. I'm glad she filed for divorce. All the best to her! She too has a lot of healing to do, especially if it's true that they were high school sweethearts. How utterly sad for her.

Wow, so you knew Holt? It sounds like a guy with unresolved anger from the sports stage in high school...Your comments I think SPEAKS VOLUMES on Holt...He must've been a pretty good athlete with strength and agility...obviously able to over power young petite Whitney...Thanks for shedding your insights to all here..

I think you misread DecemberSunshine's post. She dated someone who was also a HS football star, as Holt apparently had been. She was just comparing and sharing her experience.
 
We'll possibly learn something about this mystery vehicle.

But it occured to me watching some vending trucks do their deliveries, could this vehicle belong to Holt's employer, the vending company? Vendors have all kinds of vehicles for routes, deliveries..

Maybe it was a co employee who was involved or even maybe gave Holt a lift. Just grasping at straws here folks...

Any thoughts if this sounds possible?

I haven’t speculated on who might pick up Holt – just that I believe someone did rendezvous with Holt and picked him up. If there are pay phones in that area, I hope the phone records are being checked for outgoing calls made between 11:25 to 11:17 on that Tues.

Was the white utility vehicle a parking lot security person? Well, if so, Holt likely would have not parked even in the same general area as someone who smacked of being security. And, if security personnel was in that vehicle – then surely they are trained to notice someone in the same area park their SUV, leave the window fully open on a rainy day, and then hop a bus or just walk away. Surely that security person is trained to, at least somewhat, recognize that behavior as suspicious.

If you’re not a fan of my assertion that there was someone who helped Holt toward the end, then just sail on by this post – I ain’t mad at ya! Otherwise, here’s some more reasoning.

Other than the timing of the entry/exit of the 2 vehicles and their close proximity (which would have to be yards), the fact that Holt drove right by WalMart’s front doors all the way to the strip mall area – a place where WalMart and Burger King, as well as other stores, all have cameras facing different directions – and yet 8 minutes are left off of the WalMart surveillance timeline while he was in this area means something to me. These cameras either saw the SUV exit the area or remain in the area. Either way, it had to have been recorded on camera. And 8 minutes of what someone is doing after they just committed murder is important. After being in this area, the SUV suddenly takes off across the full length of WalMart’s lot and arrives at a spot where he backs in. Although the camera showed Holt drive to that spot, stop, put the car in reverse, and back in – the camera was unable to show Holt’s movements out of the vehicle.

Detective Gleason knew that the public would have access to his report (in fact, he requested that it be sealed after the investigation). I understand his reasons. My point in saying this is he knew the affidavit is public info and he kept this in mind when he selected the information to be in the report and the information to leave out. Because of my 20 years in professional communications, I know for a fact that when you know the public will ultimately have access to your message, you’d better craft it carefully. Give them what they need to know, but leave out what they don’t, give partial or fuzzy information when you can - especially on key things. Most people don’t even notice the minor details or facts that are brushed over. Some notice and discount seemingly irrelevant information as not important -- and sometimes it is not important. I happen to think that this vague mention of the utility vehicle is important – just as I thought Clint’s statements about multiple transactions was important (even though many posters disagreed with me saying because LE didn’t confirm it so it wasn’t true) and we later learned this is exactly what occurred.

I am happy to hear alternate viewpoints, but trust me when I say you’ll not convince me – at this point – that utility vehicle is nuthin’. You can laugh at me if I’m proven wrong. I’m old – I can take it!
 
I haven’t speculated on who might pick up Holt – just that I believe someone did rendezvous with Holt and picked him up. If there are pay phones in that area, I hope the phone records are being checked for outgoing calls made between 11:25 to 11:17 on that Tues.

Was the white utility vehicle a parking lot security person? Well, if so, Holt likely would have not parked even in the same general area as someone who smacked of being security. And, if security personnel was in that vehicle – then surely they are trained to notice someone in the same area park their SUV, leave the window fully open on a rainy day, and then hop a bus or just walk away. Surely that security person is trained to, at least somewhat, recognize that behavior as suspicious.

If you’re not a fan of my assertion that there was someone who helped Holt toward the end, then just sail on by this post – I ain’t mad at ya! Otherwise, here’s some more reasoning.

Other than the timing of the entry/exit of the 2 vehicles and their close proximity (which would have to be yards), the fact that Holt drove right by WalMart’s front doors all the way to the strip mall area – a place where WalMart and Burger King, as well as other stores, all have cameras facing different directions – and yet 8 minutes are left off of the WalMart surveillance timeline while he was in this area means something to me. These cameras either saw the SUV exit the area or remain in the area. Either way, it had to have been recorded on camera. And 8 minutes of what someone is doing after they just committed murder is important. After being in this area, the SUV suddenly takes off across the full length of WalMart’s lot and arrives at a spot where he backs in. Although the camera showed Holt drive to that spot, stop, put the car in reverse, and back in – the camera was unable to show Holt’s movements out of the vehicle.

Detective Gleason knew that the public would have access to his report (in fact, he requested that it be sealed after the investigation). I understand his reasons. My point in saying this is he knew the affidavit is public info and he kept this in mind when he selected the information to be in the report and the information to leave out. Because of my 20 years in professional communications, I know for a fact that when you know the public will ultimately have access to your message, you’d better craft it carefully. Give them what they need to know, but leave out what they don’t, give partial or fuzzy information when you can - especially on key things. Most people don’t even notice the minor details or facts that are brushed over. Some notice and discount seemingly irrelevant information as not important -- and sometimes it is not important. I happen to think that this vague mention of the utility vehicle is important – just as I thought Clint’s statements about multiple transactions was important (even though many posters disagreed with me saying because LE didn’t confirm it so it wasn’t true) and we later learned this is exactly what occurred.

I am happy to hear alternate viewpoints, but trust me when I say you’ll not convince me – at this point – that utility vehicle is nuthin’. You can laugh at me if I’m proven wrong. I’m old – I can take it!

I agree with you. I tend to think that this person who may or may not have picked JH up, did not know anything about what JH may or may not have done. JH may have called a friend from a pay phone and said he had helped a friend out that had a accident and was leaving the Ford at Walmart for them to pick up later, but he needed a ride to who knows where. However if this is true and the person at the time did not know I am sure they do no now, and would have reported it. Like you said LE know what to say and what not to. And if this person did know and did not report it, that is possible to. But I still think LE has ruled it out, or not telling. MOO Hope I covered all the bases, I hate getting in trouble.
 
Okay I've been debating whether or not to post this, mostly because I can't for the life of me find the article, but since it seems it'd be more productive than discussing the innocent victims in this crime, I'll give it a go.

A few days (maybe weeks) before Whitney went missing I was looking at another missing persons case (Daniel Christensen) and while I was reading a news article I started clicking on articles at the bottom reading various news stories.

I came across an article about a girl who had gone missing and was later found deceased. I'm confident it was in the Oregon/Washington area because as soon as I read about Whitney I thought it was ironic and possibly connected. Here is the why, in the article there was discussion about her past and her previous drug history. Then it went on to say that she had changed her life and got it straightened out and was planning to be baptized soon.

I don't know of manY religions that baptize adults so I was wondering if she was going to be baptized as a JW. Then I was reading through the comments and there was a comment from a lady (can't remember her name either but her last name was fairly common like Johnson, which didn't really narrow down my search when trying to find it later) that mentioned that the deceased in the article was in her congregation and expressed her sympathies for the family. A little digging later and I discovered that she was indeed intending to be baptized as a JW.

Back to my point, when Whitney first went missing I immediately thought about the girl I'd read about and was wondering if someone was targeting JWs. Again, I absolutely can not find the article that I had read. Don't remember the girl's name just that it was in OR or WA.

Anyone want to help me on finding if there are other unsolved homicide of JWs in the area?
I see that you've found out who she is, but if you're ever looking for an old article in the future, you can do a search of your computer history. If you go to 'history' and type a detail you remember into the search area it will hopefully find the links you're looking for.
 
I see that you've found out who she is, but if you're ever looking for an old article in the future, you can do a search of your computer history. If you go to 'history' and type a detail you remember into the search area it will hopefully find the links you're looking for.

Unless you are like me and wipe that baby out a few times a day so your kids don't accidently stumble on your weird searches/articles about a bunch of dead people from WS ;)
 
I haven’t speculated on who might pick up Holt – just that I believe someone did rendezvous with Holt and picked him up. If there are pay phones in that area, I hope the phone records are being checked for outgoing calls made between 11:25 to 11:17 on that Tues.

Was the white utility vehicle a parking lot security person? Well, if so, Holt likely would have not parked even in the same general area as someone who smacked of being security. And, if security personnel was in that vehicle – then surely they are trained to notice someone in the same area park their SUV, leave the window fully open on a rainy day, and then hop a bus or just walk away. Surely that security person is trained to, at least somewhat, recognize that behavior as suspicious.

If you’re not a fan of my assertion that there was someone who helped Holt toward the end, then just sail on by this post – I ain’t mad at ya! Otherwise, here’s some more reasoning.

Other than the timing of the entry/exit of the 2 vehicles and their close proximity (which would have to be yards), the fact that Holt drove right by WalMart’s front doors all the way to the strip mall area – a place where WalMart and Burger King, as well as other stores, all have cameras facing different directions – and yet 8 minutes are left off of the WalMart surveillance timeline while he was in this area means something to me. These cameras either saw the SUV exit the area or remain in the area. Either way, it had to have been recorded on camera. And 8 minutes of what someone is doing after they just committed murder is important. After being in this area, the SUV suddenly takes off across the full length of WalMart’s lot and arrives at a spot where he backs in. Although the camera showed Holt drive to that spot, stop, put the car in reverse, and back in – the camera was unable to show Holt’s movements out of the vehicle.

Detective Gleason knew that the public would have access to his report (in fact, he requested that it be sealed after the investigation). I understand his reasons. My point in saying this is he knew the affidavit is public info and he kept this in mind when he selected the information to be in the report and the information to leave out. Because of my 20 years in professional communications, I know for a fact that when you know the public will ultimately have access to your message, you’d better craft it carefully. Give them what they need to know, but leave out what they don’t, give partial or fuzzy information when you can - especially on key things. Most people don’t even notice the minor details or facts that are brushed over. Some notice and discount seemingly irrelevant information as not important -- and sometimes it is not important. I happen to think that this vague mention of the utility vehicle is important – just as I thought Clint’s statements about multiple transactions was important (even though many posters disagreed with me saying because LE didn’t confirm it so it wasn’t true) and we later learned this is exactly what occurred.

I am happy to hear alternate viewpoints, but trust me when I say you’ll not convince me – at this point – that utility vehicle is nuthin’. You can laugh at me if I’m proven wrong. I’m old – I can take it!

I'mWiththeBand posted screenshots from the affadavit that said Evan Judd called about the car and also picked up JH walking that day (post #963).

I think if there's 8 minutes missing, that's pretty significant.

I agree with you. I tend to think that this person who may or may not have picked JH up, did not know anything about what JH may or may not have done. <snipped>
...

I'm still wondering how a killer can riddle someone with bullets in a car at close range, pull the body to the back end, and unload the body on the mountain without having blood all over himself. But maybe that's just me.
 
Wow, so you knew Holt? It sounds like a guy with unresolved anger from the sports stage in high school...Your comments I think SPEAKS VOLUMES on Holt...He must've been a pretty good athlete with strength and agility...obviously able to over power young petite Whitney...Thanks for shedding your insights to all here..

Just to clarify, I didn't date JH. No, no, no. Just someone who the comment I was quoting about JH reminded me of someone I did. (I just woke up and may be misunderstanding your comment- so disregard if I make no sense!) :)
 
Unless you are like me and wipe that baby out a few times a day so your kids don't accidently stumble on your weird searches/articles about a bunch of dead people from WS ;)
lol mine has a password, so my kids can't use it. But yes I can see why you'd want to wipe your history!
 
The Affidavit is confusing - doesn't follow sequential order plus having to wade through the requisite ramblings typical of legal docs - so to clarify:

There are two different vehicles: a red truck and a white "utility vehicle". And, two different situations. What you are thinking of is the red truck whose driver witnessed Holt at the dumpster. Detectives were able to locate the truck owner and have a conversation with him. (Pg 36)

I went back and read again, you are right about the confusing part! LOL I do see where it was the truck driver of the red truck with the white trailer that was interviewed. I must have been skimming on that paragraph cause the red didn't stand out at me at all.. just noticed white, truck, driver.

So are the out of order events because they are in the affidavit as they occurred for LE? Instead of how the events actually happened? I don't think I have ever read one that has so many things going on.
 
Okay I've been debating whether or not to post this, mostly because I can't for the life of me find the article, but since it seems it'd be more productive than discussing the innocent victims in this crime, I'll give it a go.

A few days (maybe weeks) before Whitney went missing I was looking at another missing persons case (Daniel Christensen) and while I was reading a news article I started clicking on articles at the bottom reading various news stories.

I came across an article about a girl who had gone missing and was later found deceased. I'm confident it was in the Oregon/Washington area because as soon as I read about Whitney I thought it was ironic and possibly connected. Here is the why, in the article there was discussion about her past and her previous drug history. Then it went on to say that she had changed her life and got it straightened out and was planning to be baptized soon.

I don't know of manY religions that baptize adults
so I was wondering if she was going to be baptized as a JW. Then I was reading through the comments and there was a comment from a lady (can't remember her name either but her last name was fairly common like Johnson, which didn't really narrow down my search when trying to find it later) that mentioned that the deceased in the article was in her congregation and expressed her sympathies for the family. A little digging later and I discovered that she was indeed intending to be baptized as a JW.

Back to my point, when Whitney first went missing I immediately thought about the girl I'd read about and was wondering if someone was targeting JWs. Again, I absolutely can not find the article that I had read. Don't remember the girl's name just that it was in OR or WA.

Anyone want to help me on finding if there are other unsolved homicide of JWs in the area?

On the contrary, there are quite a few faiths that baptize adults. If one is of the Christian faith that believes in Jesus as their personal savior, then once they profess that, they are usually baptized. Also, if one has been raised in any other faith, and joins say, a Methodist or Baptist church, they are baptized also.
Baptism is not just for babies. In my faith they call that dedicating a child, which simply means that you as parents agree to raise your child in the Christian faith and set a good example for them.
 
If he wanted to give his wife an options or divorce and then to remarry why not just hook up with a random chick in a bar and then tell his wife he committed adultery? Or he could have simply divorced his wife and then cheated on her which would leave her free to remarry.

I think the perp still may have wanted to save partial face through the infidelity revelations. He was making himself out to be a “robbery” victim.

I think he may have been taking a cowardly approach to divorce, maybe couldn’t discuss openly his unhappiness/disappointment/whatever with himself/her/marriage. Some people can’t be straight forward with their thoughts/opinions/desires and choose passive/alternative/deceptive/combative approaches to getting what they want. I also think since the perp is young, he may have seen fewer choices than we all could come up with. He sounds like a loner and was described as private by his wife so he probably didn't discuss his possible thoughts on divorce with anyone else which would have probably provided alternatives to more drastic actions.

IDK, I could be completely off-base with my assessment at this point but based on what we know to date, it fits the best to me, IMVHO.

Your statement, “he could have simply divorced his wife and then cheated on her which would leave her free to remarry.” is an interesting suggestion. Would that have indeed been effective in leaving her in good standing/free to remarry? He would not, however, have saved partial face with this approach.

Again, I'm just trying to think with a twist as a young married man with the details we know to date and with my very limited understanding about a significant portion of his world.
 
I'm still wondering how a killer can riddle someone with bullets in a car at close range, pull the body to the back end, and unload the body on the mountain without having blood all over himself. But maybe that's just me.

That's what I wonder too. Maybe he turned his T Shirt/jacket/whatever inside out when he exited the vehicle and got some clothes elsewhere that day before being picked up at 6pm by the friends. Maybe he had some change of clothes with him (unlikely), maybe there were by sheer luck some of Clint's clothes in the vehicle, which he then used. Maybe he didn't get much blood on him and was able to hide it. Or maybe someone helped him, and that person later contacted LE, providing them with the first clue which prompted the interviews and surveillance on Holt. Maybe they are keeping this quiet because that person was scared?
 
That's what I wonder too. Maybe he turned his T Shirt/jacket/whatever inside out when he exited the vehicle and got some clothes elsewhere that day before being picked up at 6pm by the friends. Maybe he had some change of clothes with him (unlikely), maybe there were by sheer luck some of Clint's clothes in the vehicle, which he then used. Maybe he didn't get much blood on him and was able to hide it. Or maybe someone helped him, and that person later contacted LE, providing them with the first clue which prompted the interviews and surveillance on Holt. Maybe they are keeping this quiet because that person was scared?

Maybe there are more linens that haven't been recovered? I don't remember how many the mother said there were, but I want to say it was more than what has stated to have been recovered in the affidavit.
 
I'm still wondering how a killer can riddle someone with bullets in a car at close range, pull the body to the back end, and unload the body on the mountain without having blood all over himself. But maybe that's just me.

Snipped

I'm thinking if he had the foresight to bring a loaded gun with the *possible* intention of killing her, and we know he had a backpack with him, he probably had a change of clothes in his backpack and discarded the bloody clothes somewhere they haven't discovered yet, or if they have discovered them, chose not to put that in the affidavit.

Basically what ImWithTheBand said.

In the affidavit, AH tells LE what she thinks she remembers JH wearing when the Judd's returned him to their apartment after finding him walking on the street. She thought he was wearing a sweatshirt I believe and some kind of t-shirt underneath but couldn't remember exactly which one. She did remember he was wearing the black and green shoes (which he tried to get rid of in a field later on). Regardless, I'm sure if the Judd's had seen blood on him when they picked him up or if AH saw some on him when he got home at almost 7pm that night, they would have definitely said something to LE about it.

JMO
 
If he wanted to give his wife an options or divorce and then to remarry why not just hook up with a random chick in a bar and then tell his wife he committed adultery? Or he could have simply divorced his wife and then cheated on her which would leave her free to remarry.

Or he could have just told her he cheated and not done it.
 
Re: not having blood all over him. What if he covered her with some of the table linen before he shot her? That would certainly cut down on the blood spray/spatter.
 
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