GUILTY OR - Whitney Heichel, 21, Gresham, 16 Oct 2012 #4

[gwenabob]

Thanks for a great post! Re: the utility vehicle, I agree with you. If that parking lot is as busy as has been reported by locals, it just makes no sense to me that the only other vehicles described in detail were the red truck and white "utility vehicle" whatever that is. And LE's already talked to the guy in the red truck AFAIK.

ETA: makes no sense to me who only those two would be described IF those vehicles aren't significant somehow.

I am not convinced the "utility vehicle" is a golf cart type vehicle. I agree that is the proper definition, but I suspect in this case they mean a utility vehicle as in a vehicle owned and operated by a UTILITY--like the electric or water or phone or cable company.

I also think it is unrelated. I think it was just some worker who stopped at Burger King for lunch and pulled into the Walmart parking lot to eat where there were no other cars for easy in and out. JMO.

 

[gwenabob]

The linens then would be full of holes. I highly doubt this scenario, personally.

Yes. The linen would be full of holes. You think he wanted to take them home to his wife to use? It is very common for a killer to cover his victim before he kills them when he really cares about them. He doesn't want to see their face as they do it.

 

[lynnview21]

I have been following the case since the beginning. My sister-in-law and niece are both JW and from to the same kingdom hall as WH. They are the ones who notified me about WH missing. I have been very troubled about all of JH actions and the motive for this tragedy. I think I have finally figured it out. JH was obsessed with WH and I believe his real intentions were to rape her and the gun was for insurance to force her to summit to him and to get her into the car. After he had her drive to the roslyn area this is where it all went wrong. I believe WH refused to summit to him and fought for her life to get away from him. This explains the shot out window and all the blood in the car. She managed to get to the back seat and this is where JH shot her with the fatal shot in that back seat on the floor. Why she did not get out of the car and run for it, he probable had the keys and had control of the locks. WH dinfinely fought and I'm sure after the autopsy report comes in, it will tell the story. No way do I believe he forced her to commit oral sex on him. This is his way of trying to prove he is the man, it still gives him some source of power to voice this. As for all the evidence he left everywhere, he was in a manic state of mind and it had all gone wrong, he obviously had no idea what to do, so he acted on impulse. This young women lost her life to a complete idiot. I can only hope he gets the death sentence for this, and that his wife and WH family can heal and move on from this in time.

 

[ImWithTheBand]

Someone mentioned previously that at times, words are chosen carefully and knowing this affidavit would be public, some things may have been left out. It's possible (probable?) that what we are seeing is ONLY in relationship to search warrants and nothing else. Which means, there may be more they know, but are waiting to use it when necessary, kind of like naming the alleged perp after he was arrested, but not while they were following him and he was just a POI. There may be way more to the confession that won't come out until the trial ..MOO. It's hard to be emotionally involved, the way most of us are, and not have all the answers

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

...and shoes could be easily washed lets say at a gas station bathroom? MOO

The shoes were recovered, weren't they? As I recall, someone called them green sneakers on here. If they were washed in a restroom, they'd still have blood visible (if it got on them); only Clorox will remove blood from items so that Luminol won't pick it up (it would also likely change the color of the sneakers). He likely didn't have Clorox in a restroom. In fact, he likely didn't wash them at all, if they were found with mud still on them.

 

[Elainera]

Clorox = bleach, right? AFAIK even if you clean blood with bleach it will still be visible with luminol.

But anyway I don't think he cleaned his shoes.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Well, one thing I think we can all agree on is that this tragedy has touched many MANY lives, and affected many people, both in the town of Gresham and around the country.

True, I think this young woman has taken hold of a lot of people's hearts.

This isn't Criminal Minds or Law & Order, and some of the things people here seem to be grasping at, reading between the lines, etc... with no tangible 'evidence' that I have seen, just speculation. Definitely nothing that is as REMOTELY convincing as the actual evidence we have been made aware of.

There's talk of most of us 'forcing the evidence to fit the obvious conclusion' but I see only people trying to 'force the evidence to be lacking, looking for what isn't likely there'.

I think what people are trying to do is look at the evidence (and I'm not including his shaky illogical confession in that category at the moment, as he appears emotionally unstable as well, and it's almost unanimous he appears to be lying about some things). And some are trying to look at the evidence in perhaps new ways, as the way things have been presented, to some, have too many unanswered questions or just plain don't make sense, logically. I see no harm in that. The evidence itself (without interpretation) is the only thing that won't 'lie.' It will, if studied long and hard enough, bring those who want to know closer to the truth.

MOO and all.

Yes. The linen would be full of holes. You think he wanted to take them home to his wife to use? It is very common for a killer to cover his victim before he kills them when he really cares about them. He doesn't want to see their face as they do it.

Yes, and it's also common knowledge among criminalists that mutilating the face in a murder is a very personal crime...so that would explain why some might want to cover it.

I haven't yet read of the dumpster linens being recovered with bullet holes or gunpowder residue on them; that's why I mentioned the holes. I'll go check the pdf (haven't read all of it, yet).

I believe WH refused to summit to him and fought for her life to get away from him. This explains the shot out window and all the blood in the car. She managed to get to the back seat and this is where JH shot her with the fatal shot in that back seat on the floor. Why she did not get out of the car and run for it, he probable had the keys and had control of the locks. WH dinfinely fought and I'm sure after the autopsy report comes in, it will tell the story. No way do I believe he forced her to commit oral sex on him. This is his way of trying to prove he is the man, it still gives him some source of power to voice this. As for all the evidence he left everywhere, he was in a manic state of mind and it had all gone wrong, he obviously had no idea what to do, so he acted on impulse. This young women lost her life to a complete idiot. I can only hope he gets the death sentence for this, and that his wife and WH family can heal and move on from this in time.

So far I haven't seen a count of 'rape' (but correct me if I'm wrong) -- just the sodomy. Which, for a vicious sex crime is a little unusual, as rape is more commonly associated with anger, aggression, and violence. It's a bit harder, for me at least, to understand the juxtaposition of the brutal way she was shot (2x in the face/head, and 2x in the chest/torso area) with the comparative passivity of just oral sex. Of course, not impossible...I've just not read of it before in this sort of crime, unless the gal was perhaps held captive for a long period of time.

 

[MySweetRiley]

I just want to apologize and give credit to MySweetRiley for nailing the perp profile from very early on. *advertiser censored*, as well as child *advertiser censored*, was absolutely part of Holt's problems. The search affidavits were very revealing and probably no surprise to the aforementioned poster. May I have some salt for the crow I am eating?

Thank you! This was very kind of you! I appreciate it!

 

[Boodles]

Was there actual *advertiser censored* found on her computer? I know they seized it and AH stated to the police that JH used her computer, but I don't think I realized that there was actual *advertiser censored* on her computer... and with that being said, what type of *advertiser censored*? MOO I'd think he'd keep the illegal kiddie *advertiser censored* on his own devices and use her computer for other reasons, or perhaps more "acceptable" *advertiser censored* that can be easily accessed.

All we know from the affidavit and media reports is that Holt told LE they would find child *advertiser censored* on his laptop and various drives that he had in his backpack.

They had not searched and analyzed his devices at that point. They're probably doing that now.

When AH was interviewed, she said that Jonathan used her HP laptop, which was seized the day JH was arrested.

Also, the day he was arrested, he had a long sleeved shirt in his backpack. So apparently he carried clothing in it.

 

[sissylala]

So far I haven't seen a count of 'rape' (but correct me if I'm wrong) -- just the sodomy. Which, for a vicious sex crime is a little unusual, as rape is more commonly associated with anger, aggression, and violence. It's a bit harder, for me at least, to understand the juxtaposition of the brutal way she was shot (2x in the face/head, and 2x in the chest/torso area) with the comparative passivity of just oral sex. Of course, not impossible...I've just not read of it before in this sort of crime, unless the gal was perhaps held captive for a long period of time.

sniped by me...

I didn't want to verbalize it, but this bothered me as well. That's a very vulnerable appendage... ugh. Makes me sick to think of it.

I'm in no way blaming WH if it did indeed happen the way JH says it did but I can't imagine it did.

I know that an identifiable, armed assailant rarely lets a victim just walk away. There's really no way to know how I'd react but if someone pointed a gun at me while I was driving, I would hope I would gun it, at full speed off the nearest cliff or into a power pole.

Also if an assailant left any part of his body vulnerable to my teeth, fists or fingernails, I would be attacking him literally tooth and nail. I might not survive but I'd do my best to make sure he couldn't have any other victims.

Maybe he threatened her family to scare her into not attacking him? Maybe he did kidnap her from the beginning? I just can't imagine it happening like he said.

 

[iamnotagolem]

While many seem to think that JH couldn't have done this alone based on the random disposal, his random confessions to unrelated crimes, etc

I think he is just a liar. He lied about being mugged, he lied about where he was, what he was doing, he lied to his wife, he lied to Whitney, there is no doubt he's lied about stuff in the affidavit.

I do not think he falsely confessed to a crime that he didn't commit. How? Why? Police saw him disposing of guns, ammo boxes, etc. No one set him up to do that.

I'm not buying that somehow AH killed Whitney and convinced her husband to dispose of the guns, ammo, etc and then confess to killing Whitney and forcing her to perform oral JUST to get out of a marriage.

JH is a sick, twisted individual who murdered and raped an innocent victim .

 

[nikb]

She remembers a lot more than I do when my husband leaves for work (hah, esp. if he left at 5:15 to get to his job which was 45 minutes away!) Mine leaves that early for business trips and even if he wakes me with a kiss, my eyes don't open.

Just an observation; no inference attached to it.

lol yeah seriously, 5:15am, no thanks. In fairness I do sometimes set clothes out the night before, for both myself and my husband, so I could see having a pretty good idea of what he is/was wearing even if I wasn't 100% sure I saw it on him that morning. I could give you a really good description of what my husband "probably" wore to work most days, including shoes, and jackets/thermals/sweats he might wear if it was cold out, but it would be hard for me to say 100% it was the exact clothing he was wearing on a specific day.

I have wondered if he (JH) wears a uniform at work, which I suspect he does (or did) based on his job. IMO, he probably dresses nearly the same every day and has a few options for keeping warmer, such as dark colored thermal underwear, dark colored sweatshirts, etc. If someone's wearing a uniform for something like vending machine deliveries, where they might get fairly dirty, they could wear dark colored uniforms and company rules say they have to wear dark colored thermals or sweatshirts.

 

[nikb]

The linens then would be full of holes. I highly doubt this scenario, personally.

Do we know that the linens were not full of holes? (keeping in mind that a few days ago there were posts that "not a drop of blood" was found in the SUV, but when the affidavit came out it sounded like there was quite a lot of blood in the SUV)

If he did somehow use the linens for clean up or as part of the crime it seems pretty 'convenient' that they were there, so I'm skeptical about him using them as well, but I don't think it's impossible.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Clorox = bleach, right? AFAIK even if you clean blood with bleach it will still be visible with luminol.

But anyway I don't think he cleaned his shoes.

Thanks, Elainera -- I'd always heard bleach removed the blood evidence for luminol detection, but double-checked, and found out it's PEROXIDE bleach that removes the hemoglobin, not chlorine bleaches (like Clorox):

http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/detecting-evidence-after-bleaching.html

Learn something new every day!

 

[SuziQ]

Someone mentioned previously that at times, words are chosen carefully and knowing this affidavit would be public, some things may have been left out. It's possible (probable?) that what we are seeing is ONLY in relationship to search warrants and nothing else. Which means, there may be more they know, but are waiting to use it when necessary, kind of like naming the alleged perp after he was arrested, but not while they were following him and he was just a POI. There may be way more to the confession that won't come out until the trial ..MOO. It's hard to be emotionally involved, the way most of us are, and not have all the answers

Probable cause statements list just enough to support the charges filed. A prosecutor will not show his hand , to the defense, this early in the game. You can bet there is much more that we don't know.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

When AH was interviewed, she said that Jonathan used her HP laptop, which was seized the day JH was arrested.

Thanks, Boodles. That would probably explain the muddled reporting about which computers had the *advertiser censored* on them. (I'm still looking for the article but can't do the search history, as I've had to wipe off my search about every 4 hours to get this site to load.)

So Amanda's was seized under the warrant for suspected *advertiser censored* on it, but we're still awaiting the results.

 

[DecemberSunshine]

FWIW re: luminol

Luminol has some drawbacks that may limit its use in a crime scene investigation:

Luminol chemiluminescence can also be triggered by a number of substances such as copper or copper-containing chemical compounds, and certain bleaches; and, as a result, if a crime scene is thoroughly cleaned with a bleach solution, residual cleaner will cause the entire crime scene to produce the typical blue glow, effectively camouflaging any organic evidence, such as blood.
Horseradish sauce, via the enzyme horseradish peroxidase, catalyses the oxidation of luminol, emitting light at 428 nm (blue in the visible spectrum), which may result in a false positive.
Luminol will also detect the small amounts of blood present in urine, and it can be distorted if animal blood is present in the room that is being tested.
Luminol reacts with fecal matter, causing the same glow as if it were blood.
Luminol's presence may prevent other tests from being performed on a piece of evidence. However, it has been shown that DNA can be successfully extracted from samples treated with luminol reagent.[9]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminol#section_3

It's amazing what I've learned through these threads!

 

[SuziQ]

True, I think this young woman has taken hold of a lot of people's hearts.




I think what people are trying to do is look at the evidence (and I'm not including his shaky illogical confession in that category at the moment, as he appears emotionally unstable as well, and it's almost unanimous he appears to be lying about some things). And some are trying to look at the evidence in perhaps new ways, as the way things have been presented, to some, have too many unanswered questions or just plain don't make sense, logically. I see no harm in that. The evidence itself (without interpretation) is the only thing that won't 'lie.' It will, if studied long and hard enough, bring those who want to know closer to the truth.

MOO and all.




Yes, and it's also common knowledge among criminalists that mutilating the face in a murder is a very personal crime...so that would explain why some might want to cover it.

I haven't yet read of the dumpster linens being recovered with bullet holes or gunpowder residue on them; that's why I mentioned the holes. I'll go check the pdf (haven't read all of it, yet).



So far I haven't seen a count of 'rape' (but correct me if I'm wrong) -- just the sodomy. Which, for a vicious sex crime is a little unusual, as rape is more commonly associated with anger, aggression, and violence. It's a bit harder, for me at least, to understand the juxtaposition of the brutal way she was shot (2x in the face/head, and 2x in the chest/torso area) with the comparative passivity of just oral sex. Of course, not impossible...I've just not read of it before in this sort of crime, unless the gal was perhaps held captive for a long period of time.

I don't consider forced oral sex to be passive at all. The charge of sodomy is merely to describe the specific act that was commited. It is in no way intended to give the impression that the act of sodomy was less angry, aggressive and violent than penitration rape.

 

[Elainera]

FWIW re: luminol

Luminol has some drawbacks that may limit its use in a crime scene investigation:

Luminol chemiluminescence can also be triggered by a number of substances such as copper or copper-containing chemical compounds, and certain bleaches; and, as a result, if a crime scene is thoroughly cleaned with a bleach solution, residual cleaner will cause the entire crime scene to produce the typical blue glow, effectively camouflaging any organic evidence, such as blood.
Horseradish sauce, via the enzyme horseradish peroxidase, catalyses the oxidation of luminol, emitting light at 428 nm (blue in the visible spectrum), which may result in a false positive.
Luminol will also detect the small amounts of blood present in urine, and it can be distorted if animal blood is present in the room that is being tested.
Luminol reacts with fecal matter, causing the same glow as if it were blood.
Luminol's presence may prevent other tests from being performed on a piece of evidence. However, it has been shown that DNA can be successfully extracted from samples treated with luminol reagent.[9]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminol#section_3

It's amazing what I've learned through these threads!

Don't they in the CSI shows sometimes also detect urine and ejaculate with luminol? (That's where I have my wisdom from - Grissom et al )

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

I don't consider forced oral sex to be passive at all. The charge of sodomy is merely to describe the specific act that was commited. It is in no way intended to give the impression that the act of sodomy was less angry, aggressive and violent than penitration rape.

No, just to reiterate--it's comparatively passive to rape. IMO. Nothing passive about crime, though.