GUILTY OR - Whitney Heichel, 21, Gresham, 16 Oct 2012 #4

[SuziQ]

No, just to reiterate--it's comparatively passive to rape. IMO. Nothing passive about crime, though.

BBM. I'm not understanding how. In many ways it's worse. We'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[LinasK]

The shoes were recovered, weren't they? As I recall, someone called them green sneakers on here. If they were washed in a restroom, they'd still have blood visible (if it got on them); only Clorox will remove blood from items so that Luminol won't pick it up (it would also likely change the color of the sneakers). He likely didn't have Clorox in a restroom. In fact, he likely didn't wash them at all, if they were found with mud still on them.

I know of stain removers that will remove blood from clothing- Clorox is Not one of them...

 

[LinasK]

While many seem to think that JH couldn't have done this alone based on the random disposal, his random confessions to unrelated crimes, etc

I think he is just a liar. He lied about being mugged, he lied about where he was, what he was doing, he lied to his wife, he lied to Whitney, there is no doubt he's lied about stuff in the affidavit.

I do not think he falsely confessed to a crime that he didn't commit. How? Why? Police saw him disposing of guns, ammo boxes, etc. No one set him up to do that.

I'm not buying that somehow AH killed Whitney and convinced her husband to dispose of the guns, ammo, etc and then confess to killing Whitney and forcing her to perform oral JUST to get out of a marriage.

JH is a sick, twisted individual who murdered and raped an innocent victim .

Excellent post!:goodpost::clap::clap::clap:

 

[LinasK]

BBM. I'm not understanding how. In many ways it's worse. We'll have to agree to disagree.

I agree with you SuziQ, it's still a violent sexual assault, just because it's a different orifice, it's not like she was a willing participant, and probably just as psychologically degrading, if not moreso!

 

[recyclops]

I agree with you SuziQ, it's still a violent sexual assault, just because it's a different orifice, it's not like she was a willing participant, and probably just as psychologically degrading, if not moreso!

i agree with both of you that it is a form of violent sexual assault
just thought i'd link to the Oregon law regarding Sodomy;
http://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/163.405

 

[AvalonBlue]

I don't consider forced oral sex to be passive at all. The charge of sodomy is merely to describe the specific act that was commited. It is in no way intended to give the impression that the act of sodomy was less angry, aggressive and violent than penitration rape.

Hi SuziQ;-)
Clicking the Thanks Button just wasn't enough. Your post was just perfect and I really appreciate it.:rocker:

 

[nikb]

I agree with you SuziQ, it's still a violent sexual assault, just because it's a different orifice, it's not like she was a willing participant, and probably just as psychologically degrading, if not moreso!

Totally agreed! I actually thought they might've used that terminology because it's considered worse, legally speaking.

ETA: sorry, I was a bit behind. Thanks Recyclops for the link!

 

[Neptune]

I agree with you. I tend to think that this person who may or may not have picked JH up, did not know anything about what JH may or may not have done. JH may have called a friend from a pay phone and said he had helped a friend out that had a accident and was leaving the Ford at Walmart for them to pick up later, but he needed a ride to who knows where. However if this is true and the person at the time did not know I am sure they do no now, and would have reported it. Like you said LE know what to say and what not to. And if this person did know and did not report it, that is possible to. But I still think LE has ruled it out, or not telling. MOO Hope I covered all the bases, I hate getting in trouble.

This may be right -- possibly, once discovering what really happened, this person tipped LE to Holt.

I did not see on the Affidavit where, on his own initiative, Holt came into the station to report the robbery. That story came up during his initial interview.

 

[caffeinejean]

http://www.oregonlive.com/gresham/index.ssf/2012/10/grand_jury_indicts_jonathan_ho.html

"Weber set a Dec. 14 trial date for Holt, but that was a formality. It is likely that a trial is a year away.

Conor Huseby, Holt's court-appointed attorney, declined to answer questions about the case.

Seven people testified before the grand jury, six of them representing law enforcement agencies. The seventh, Evan Judd, is a member of the Jehovah's Witnesses church that Holt and Heichel attended."

To me it looks like the tip off on JH was from EJ and AJ his friends who picked him up and drove him home to his wife the night of the murder. As to blood on his clothes that evening??? and the clothes that AH remembers he was wearing when he came home... hoody, t-shirt, sweatpants and green/yellow shoes??? I wonder if he just didn't go home after he left the WH Explorer at Walmart and cleanup as opposed to walking around all day with possible blood evidence on his clothing.
JH told LE, in his interview and about the 6am robbery, that he was wearing Khaki colored pants, a 49'ers red long sleeve T and blue running shoes and the leather jacket that robbers took. That seems like an appropriate outfit to go to work in and to abduct WH. So maybe he went home, cleaned up and got rid of his bloody clothes and leather (motorcycle) jacket. His motorcycle had been moved as I recall off the porch to a private parking stall in the complex so his wife would think he went to work, and she was working/gone all day . Then he could have walked to a Movie theater which is near 257th and Stark and stayed out of the rain all day and planned his stupid lies. The Judd's saw him as he was finally walking home. He had plenty of time from noon or so in his apartment to be alone to clean himself up, change to sweats and leave again.
Just some ideas/thoughts on his whereabouts and clothing on that fateful awful day.
Feel free to refute this theory.

 

[Xavier]

Anyone wanting to read the recent ceremony for Whitney's memorial....

http://www.katu.com/news/local/175990851.html

Our sister in law who works for Starbucks corporate in Seattle,WA said the company's looking into a benefit or memorial for Whitney

 

[Xavier]

They found the sweater and we marked that on a map and focused on and used that as a direction to focus our search," Weaver said. "And then we found evidence at Dodge Park at two in the morning – guy called me and I said, 'wait there, call police and wait there till police shows up.'"

Church members found Heichel's sweater along Dodge Park Boulevard east of Gresham near the tiny town of Pleasant Home. It is six miles from Dodge Park where church members found more undisclosed clues.

Weaver said they started their search at Heichel's apartment and from there sent out about 60 carloads of church members to scour remote areas for her. Those dozens, even hundreds, of searchers mobilized quickly. Searchers took cellphone pictures of areas highlighted on a map to use while searching.

The searchers began to realize the situation was dire when they found Heichel's sweater.

They targeted Larch Mountain where her body was found because they figured that's as far as anyone could have driven, considering the two and a half hours between the times she disappeared and her ATM card was used at a gas station in Gresham.

"Divided that in half (an hour and 15 minutes) and we started driving and seeing how far we can go in an hour and 15 minutes. (We) ended up at Larch Mountain, because of something on the Internet about Larch Mountain, which ended up not being true, but still, you got to do with every possible (lead); one hour 15 minutes, mile marker 9 up Larch Mountain Road – mile marker 10, it all worked out," Weaver said.

Many wondered if church members were tracking Heichel’s cellphone. But Weaver said they had no way to do that. He thinks if it weren't for the church's effort, Heichel's disappearance would still be a mystery.

 

[Xavier]

This comment coming from KATU News.com in the reader's comment section, could be speculation, not sure, but thought it interesting into the Holt's marriage and JW.





<modsnip>

 

[masyann]

I have a question, I have looked and searched for a picture I thought I seen on one of the news stations, I may just be dreaming because for the life of me I can not find it. Is there a picture showing the white utility (van, truck or cart) that was parked by WH Ford that JH left in Walmart parking lot. My be someone did a set up of it like how it would look and I am totaling imagining this. These 4 am and 5 am me staying up is probably getting to me.
I used the search option and went back through the threads even just tried to Google it. Please either tell me I am just plain wrong. Or maybe someone else remembers it...

 

[Joe Friday]

Probable cause statements list just enough to support the charges filed. A prosecutor will not show his hand , to the defense, this early in the game. You can bet there is much more that we don't know.

BBM

According to the affidavit JH was under heavy surveillance on the 19th of October. This is the same day JH had a scheduled interview with LE, the same day JH tried to dispose of the gun and ammunition among other things. The same day JH confessed to killing Whitney, the same day JH took LE to the spot he shot and killed Whitney on SE Thomas Rd, the same day Whitney's body was found on Larch Mountain.

It may not be written in the affidavit that JH took LE to Larch Mountain and showed them where Whitney's body was located, but my hunch is that he did.

JMO

Link to affidavit: http://media.oregonlive.com/gresham_impact/other/holt1.pdf

 

[Boodles]

I have a question, I have looked and searched for a picture I thought I seen on one of the news stations, I may just be dreaming because for the life of me I can not find it. Is there a picture showing the white utility (van, truck or cart) that was parked by WH Ford that JH left in Walmart parking lot. My be someone did a set up of it like how it would look and I am totaling imagining this. These 4 am and 5 am me staying up is probably getting to me.
I used the search option and went back through the threads even just tried to Google it. Please either tell me I am just plain wrong. Or maybe someone else remembers it...

I don't recall ever seeing a photo of the white utility vehicle. That would be huge to see and therefore possibly identify it.

 

[TreeClimbingGirl]

No, just to reiterate--it's comparatively passive to rape. IMO. Nothing passive about crime, though.

Um, forced oral copulation IS rape, and having BTDT I can assure you it is anything but "passive"

ETA-sorry, I see this point has been addressed by others, I just got really pizzed off when I read that. Rape is rape, and I am tired of seeing people try to re-define it.

 

[Joe Friday]

Something else I found interesting in the affidavit was that LE had Whitney's cell phone records with in a few hours of her case being taken seriously.

I say seriously because Clint called LE early on when he received a call from Starbucks and he couldn't get a hold of Whitney himself and I believe later called LE back after Whitney's vehicle was found at Walmart. My feelings are when the vehicle was found at around 12:30 PM is when LE started looking at the case more seriously. Likely before that Clint was told to give it time and see if she shows up somewhere. There is no doubt LE (and maybe even the family members who found the car) seen the blood in the vehicle and knew the case would not end well at that point, and that is when LE seriously started looking into Whitney's case..

I knew the only way LE could know Whitney's or her vehicle had traveled to the Sandy OR area before any evidence in that area had been found had to be a result of Whitney's cell phone ping information. It just goes to show you how fast LE can obtain cell phone records in an emergency. The vehicle was found at approximately 12:30 PM and the cell phone information was obtained at 15:23. Not even three hours.

JMO

 

[Boodles]

Something else I found interesting in the affidavit was that LE had Whitney's cell phone records with in a few hours of her case being taken seriously.

I say seriously because Clint called LE early on when he received a call from Starbucks and he couldn't get a hold of Whitney himself and I believe later called LE back after Whitney's vehicle was found at Walmart. My feelings are when the vehicle was found at around 12:30 PM is when LE started looking at the case more seriously. Likely before that Clint was told to give it time and see if she shows up somewhere. There is no doubt LE (and maybe even the family members who found the car) seen the blood in the vehicle and knew the case would not end well at that point, and that is when LE seriously started looking into Whitney's case..

I knew the only way LE could know Whitney's or her vehicle had traveled to the Sandy OR area before any evidence in that area had been found had to be a result of Whitney's cell phone ping information. It just goes to show you how fast LE can obtain cell phone records in an emergency. The vehicle was found at approximately 12:30 PM and the cell phone information was obtained at 15:23. Not even three hours.

JMO

Joe, how do you think LE narrowed in on the Larch Mtn location? The phone was apparently turned off at ~9:07am, IIRC, and possibly thrown into the woods in Troutdale before the Explorer went to Larch Mountain.

 

[Quester]

Detectives forced to put emotion aside during [WH] case

Detectives who worked on the murder case of [WH] said they knew from the start that her Oct. 16 disappearance bore few similarities to other missing person cases. ...

... The pieces of [WH]'s life started to come together, revealing a dependable, thoughtful and loving young woman who had no reason to run off. ...

http://www.kptv.com/story/19962560/detectives-in-whitney-heichel-case

 

[Mustang Sally]

I don't consider forced oral sex to be passive at all. The charge of sodomy is merely to describe the specific act that was commited. It is in no way intended to give the impression that the act of sodomy was less angry, aggressive and violent than penitration rape.

Seriously...gun or no gun...if some dude forces me to do oral sex on him...he WILL be missing his "Family Jewels!!"....The teeth are a mighty weapon!

I do not post this to be disrespectful of poor Whitney, so please do not take it that way. I am sure that she handled JH in the best way that SHE could! I sure wish she had been able to fight him Mickey Schnick style...and had given him some painful way to remember her! I does appear that he is suffering Mentally..for what that is worth!

Her death was so senseless. It saddens me to see that this world has become so twisted that one can not trust their friends, neighbors or even their church family!

Dear God..Please Bless the Family and Friends of Whitney Heichel!