GUILTY OR - Whitney Heichel, 21, Gresham, 16 Oct 2012 #4

[WestCoastLady]

:welcome4:

Welcome Xavier!

Great 1st post....

(This place can be addictive - hope you'll stay around and check out some of the other threads)

 

[recyclops]

I think I understand what you might be trying to say, but 'high-functioning' doesn't even make sense if he doesn't have the diagnosis in the first place. While it has degrees of range of severity (like other disorders such as autism), you have to have the diagnosis before determining the degree of function. So, if he doesn't have all 3 of the 3 characteristics that ALL these kids must have, then he's not on the chart in the first place. And the one mandatory characteristic I can at least notice right off the bat from the wedding pictures (though I'm not a specialist in this) is the lack of a smooth philtrum. His looks normal--probably a "2" if you look on the charts. He also seems not to have the webbed eyelids, the 'railroad track' ears, etc. I wouldn't diagnose someone online, especially by what they don't have in this disorder, but I would be loathe to speculate about this diagnosis for any individual. It's outside our parameters.

Yes, FAS proper does require the physical characteristics. FASD is an umbrella term. Fetal Alcohol Effects would better describe what I am referring to under the FASD terms that does not require the physical characteristics.

"Fetal alcohol effects (FAE)describes children with prenatal
alcohol exposure who do not have all the symptoms of
FAS.Many have growth deficiencies,behavior problems,
cognitive deficits, and other symptoms. However, they
do not have the facial features of FAS.Although the term
FAE is still used, the Institute of Medicine has coined
more specific terms. These include alcohol-related
neurodevelopmental disorder and alcohol-related birth
defects."

http://www.fasdcenter.samhsa.gov/Index.aspx
As I said I'm just presenting it as a theory because in my opinion JH is mentally unwell....Just what kind of mentally unwell, only time and the trial will tell.
Anyways its the last I will bring it up, as I said it's all speculation...and time will tell what his problems are. Maybe he's just stupid and evil. I guess that possibility exists too.

 

[Xavier]

I have always believed there was another person involved in the cover up of his crime (but not in the homicide). Given all the new information tonight, I am completely convinced now.

Given the proximity of events later in the morning, I believe the general area around 257th Avenue between Stark and Halsey is key. Somewhere around the cell tower at Mount Hood CC. If Holt only needed gas and it was the lack of gas that prevented him from going directly from Roslyn Lake up to Larch, he'd have no reason to travel so far North all the way to I-84 to get gas -- because there are gas stations located closer to Dodge Park and to Larch. He needed someone's help. I believe with this person is where he spent Tuesday afternoon before being spotted walking home.

This sounds possible of a 2cd perp along with Holt. When Holt left the SUV @ WalMart, where did the video show him going? Did he hop into the White SUV nearby or did he just walk away out of the video range? Also, why did Holt need to carry 3 guns with him with enough ammo to harm alot of people? Was a revolver for another accomplice ?

And why several gas stops? Were two cars using Whitney's debit card? Does the gas station video show just Whitney's Black SUV getting gas or also another car ( the mystery white car)...
Also, the LE actually were trailing and observing Holt toss Whitney's personal things and other crime scene stuff in more than one dumpster. That's how they were able to find, collect evidence so fast... These facts are on the Gresham police report. Any explanations are welcomed.

 

[ByTheSea]

You had better believe I don't use my real name on Facebook. The court uses whatever your legal name is, and it is very possible that she has not changed it officially with the bureau of records. I think the face looks a lot like her, and the nose looks stretched because she is smiling in one photo, and frowning in the other. I am not convinced either, but I'm glad people are considering the possibility.

BBM: I'd say you're probably in the minority, then..but I can see why one wouldn't want to use their real name. That said, most people do use their real names, I'd hazard to bet.

Not convinced about the nose - the mugshot photo has a very small, pointed nose (looks as if the person has maybe even had some work done, it's very narrow). AH's nose is wider, and I just can't go with the smiling/frowning theory - I don't think that changes one's nose shape that much. Plus, AH's birthdate is listed in the 2011 police report - she's older than the Amanda Adams in the police mugshot.

Interesting possibilities and discussion...but I'm definitely in the camp that says that is not her.

 

[Glow]

As I said I'm just presenting it as a theory because in my opinion JH is mentally unwell....Just what kind of mentally unwell, only time and the trial will tell.

I think you are right that more time is needed for his mental status to become more clearly defined.

I was struck by his description of the men who supposedly "robbed him" at gunpoint. He said that one of them "reminded him of a boy he went to school with named Anthony"...

Where did that kind of random attention to detail come from? It sounds like he was somewhat distant and remote, enough that he said his wife felt "abandoned".

Going through the dresser drawers of his neighbor, peeping tom, child *advertiser censored*...

Sounds like he had a rich and detailed inner world going on

 

[Xavier]

I think you are right that more time is needed for his mental status to become more clearly defined.

I was struck by his description of the men who supposedly "robbed him" at gunpoint. He said that one of them "reminded him of a boy he went to school with named Anthony"...

Where did that kind of random attention to detail come from? It sounds like he was somewhat distant and remote, enough that he said his wife felt "abandoned".

Going through the dresser drawers of his neighbor, peeping tom, child *advertiser censored*...

Sounds like he had a rich and detailed inner world going on

I think in the next few days, I would'nt be surprised in the least if we'll learn Holt had commited other crimes, possibly murder, abduction, rape, etc over the years..
Example, when Holt's wife had him on the police blotter as "missing" for days, where did he stay? Hotels are'nt cheap especially for a guy on very limited funds...and I'm sure if he stayed at his parents home, they would've called Holt's wife pretty fast..And, I might be wrong on this, but I thought the gun shop who sold Holt the guns/ammo in June 2012, told police Holt was with someone? Any explanations welcomed...

 

[iamnotagolem]

I think in the next few days, I would'nt be surprised in the least if we'll learn Holt had commited other crimes, possibly murder, abduction, rape, etc over the years..
Example, when Holt's wife had him on the police blotter as "missing" for days, where did he stay? Hotels are'nt cheap especially for a guy on very limited funds...and I'm sure if he stayed at his parents home, they would've called Holt's wife pretty fast..And, I might be wrong on this, but I thought the gun shop who sold Holt the guns/ammo in June 2012, told police Holt was with someone? Any explanations welcomed...

BBM, do you have a link for that?

 

[Xavier]

BBM, do you have a link for that?

Golem--- Try this link if you can open it...this may be the wrong link, I'm looking for it.

The documents offer a chilling and detailed summary into the investigation into Holt, who was indicted Friday in Clackamas County Circuit Court on charges of aggravated murder, kidnapping, robbery and sodomy.

 

[iamnotagolem]

Golem--- Try this link if you can open it...this may be the wrong link, I'm looking for it.

The documents offer a chilling and detailed summary into the investigation into Holt, who was indicted Friday in Clackamas County Circuit Court on charges of aggravated murder, kidnapping, robbery and sodomy.

The documentation regarding him purchasing a handgun is discussed on page 40 of the affidavit, there is nothing mentioned about a second person being with him.

 

[KAE]

OT but.. someone sent me the PDF that they could see every page on, I opened it, and can't see most of the pages. SO bizarre. I'll try on my Windows PC later today. :-/

I'm on a Mac and had trouble with some of the pages in that PDF file when trying to view them with the "Preview" application. I opened them in Acrobat Reader and could see every page. The problem was with any page that had something redacted with a black bar. Kinda weird - I haven't had to use Acrobat in a long time.

 

[Xavier]

This chills me to read this...it seems like the sex stuff took place in the SUV, with dark tinted windows to hide, be obscure to passers by on that Lake Road..then he shot Whitney in the head/face area twice and twice more in her chest and the bullets must have shattered the passenger window, the window glass shard/fragments were covered in blood too....one of the bullets must've broken her tooth...I think Holt got out, went to the passenger side, put down the back seats, laid mats down, then pulled Whitney over the front seat into the back seat area by by yanking her hair, they found some clumps of her hair in the back seat...This would avoid him of carrying the body, getting himself bloodied..Good god, what an evil monster Holt is..

(From a recent forensic report):
A forensic scientist who examined Whitney Heichel's 1999 Ford Explorer concluded that someone had done a poor job of cleaning it up.

"There was blood in the creases and seams of the seats, and yet the surfaces of the seat are mostly clean," wrote Gresham Detective Ryan Gleason, after speaking with the forensic scientist.

A "large quantity of blood" was found on the seats, and bone fragments appeared to be covered up by a floor mat. Investigators also found what appeared to be a bloody tooth, a clump of long hair, four spent 9mm shell casings in the SUV and a mostly used bottle of Febreze fabric freshener.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Originally Posted by msthinksalot

Originally Posted by PoirotryInMotion
I think the call might have been made by Whitney to Starbucks...a call for help. (Yes, that early.) I also believe that could have prompted the angry tossing of the phone into the lake.

With all due respect, I think you are clutching at straws. For whatever reason, you seem to be equating Clint with a Scott Peterson sort of character. The funny thing is, Clint wasn't doing anything suspicious. Not a single thing out of the ordinary. Holt was. I simply do not understand if you are doing this to be provocative or what? Unlike all the hinky stuff pulled by Scott Peterson and others, there simply isn't any of that here. It is starting to feel really frustrating to read these baseless accusations. If there's evidence there, I mean, bona fide evidence, then by all means, share ... or better yet, contact Gresham PD!

With all due respect, I'm not sure how you get Scott Pearson and baseless accusations about Clint from this post about Whitney possibly calling Starbucks from that phone at 6:08. The first conclusion jumped to isn't necessarily the only one, nor the correct one.

 

[Tracey4AU]

I have no idea what some of this bloviating is about. *confused* Must be a code I haven't broken yet.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Originally Posted by funknut View Post
You had better believe I don't use my real name on Facebook. The court uses whatever your legal name is, and it is very possible that she has not changed it officially with the bureau of records. I think the face looks a lot like her, and the nose looks stretched because she is smiling in one photo, and frowning in the other. I am not convinced either, but I'm glad people are considering the possibility.

BBM: I'd say you're probably in the minority, then..but I can see why one wouldn't want to use their real name. That said, most people do use their real names, I'd hazard to bet.

Not convinced about the nose - the mugshot photo has a very small, pointed nose (looks as if the person has maybe even had some work done, it's very narrow). AH's nose is wider, and I just can't go with the smiling/frowning theory - I don't think that changes one's nose shape that much. Plus, AH's birthdate is listed in the 2011 police report - she's older than the Amanda Adams in the police mugshot.

Interesting possibilities and discussion...but I'm definitely in the camp that says that is not her.

Well, I got a 404 oops page; guessing it's been removed? Sounds like it was hard to tell from the photo anyway.

Here's the thing, though--I wouldn't be too hung up on the last name thing in searches if you're doing them...I've noticed in my searches that often the women of this faith revert back to their maiden names, inexplicably. I hope I'm not straying into dangerous territory of 'religious discussion' when I respectfully ask a question that occurred to me...I'm not asking questions about the legitimacy of a certain practice--just if it is done. Because it would explain a LOT of the name confusion.

According to my understanding, breaking the law is considered something a JW could become disfellowshipped for? Please feel free to correct me, if I'm wrong, here. Like any faith, the practice of it could vary from region to region. But, say one member of a couple got disfellowshipped after getting arrested--if there was a rendering of family ties, would it be that immediate, and would it also be a legal one--would the names get changed back to the premarital status?

 

[fruity]

If the Explorer was pulled into that turnout from the oncoming lane as you see it in the photo, the passenger side window would be facing the field and not the road. Besides the tinted windows in the back, there were also at least a dozen table linens (possibly 16?) that Whitney had brought home from her mother's house the night before. (and possibly the bottle of Febreze to freshen them up?)

That spot sure doesn't look like a place a body could be dumped even temporarily. I think her body was placed in the back seat, with the table linens on top of her. At the gas station if JH asked for $5 or even $10 worth, the attendant would have had to watch the meter on the pump and would probably only have glanced at the back of the car as he was inserting and removing the gas nozzle. Coupled with the tinted windows and the table cloths, I don't think Whitney's body would have been readily noticeable.

I remember reading that the back seats were folded down, so this fits well with that theory.

 

[Glow]

I have no idea what some of this bloviating is about. *confused* Must be a code I haven't broken yet.

Me neither:what: and I have NO idea what bloviating means:blushing:

 

[recyclops]

Well, I got a 404 oops page; guessing it's been removed? Sounds like it was hard to tell from the photo anyway.

Here's the thing, though--I wouldn't be too hung up on the last name thing in searches if you're doing them...I've noticed in my searches that often the women of this faith revert back to their maiden names, inexplicably. I hope I'm not straying into dangerous territory of 'religious discussion' when I respectfully ask a question that occurred to me...I'm not asking questions about the legitimacy of a certain practice--just if it is done. Because it would explain a LOT of the name confusion.

According to my understanding, breaking the law is considered something a JW could become disfellowshipped for? Please feel free to correct me, if I'm wrong, here. Like any faith, the practice of it could vary from region to region. But, say one member of a couple got disfellowshipped after getting arrested--if there was a rendering of family ties, would it be that immediate, and would it also be a legal one--would the names get changed back to the premarital status?

There is zero connection between being a JW and reverting to one's maiden name. If you have happened to notice that, it is merely coincidence, and is purely personal preference.
Someone "could" be disfellowshipped for committing a crime.Depends on the circumstances. I have a feeling tho, JH will be disfellowshipped.
And as for one member of a couple being disfellowshipped, that has no bearing on whether someone changes their name back to their maiden name if they divorce. Some keep their married name, some change it back. Again, personal preference. Some keep their married name even when they divorce because they have children and wish to keep continuity for them.
There is no hard and fast rule as far as name changes go, totally a personal choice.

 

[Ronso]

From Webster:

Definition of BLOVIATE

: to speak or write verbosely and windily
— blo·vi·a·tion

I admit, I had to look it up. LOL

 

[recyclops]

Me neither:what: and I have NO idea what bloviating means:blushing:

Haha!!! I admit I had to look up the meaning as I had no idea either, and I generally have a pretty good vocabulary

 

[peace9274]

I think in the next few days, I would'nt be surprised in the least if we'll learn Holt had commited other crimes, possibly murder, abduction, rape, etc over the years..
Example, when Holt's wife had him on the police blotter as "missing" for days, where did he stay? Hotels are'nt cheap especially for a guy on very limited funds...and I'm sure if he stayed at his parents home, they would've called Holt's wife pretty fast..And, I might be wrong on this, but I thought the gun shop who sold Holt the guns/ammo in June 2012, told police Holt was with someone? Any explanations welcomed...

I read the part in the affidavit about the interview with the gun shop owner.
I remember the owner said their records showed Holt did buy one gun there.
In June, I believe. I do not recall any mention at all, by the gun shop owner
nor LE, regarding whether Holt was alone or with someone else.