GUILTY OR - Whitney Heichel, 21, Gresham, 16 Oct 2012 #4

[Melancholy]

There is zero connection between being a JW and reverting to one's maiden name. If you have happened to notice that, it is merely coincidence, and is purely personal preference.
Someone "could" be disfellowshipped for committing a crime.Depends on the circumstances. I have a feeling tho, JH will be disfellowshipped.
And as for one member of a couple being disfellowshipped, that has no bearing on whether someone changes their name back to their maiden name if they divorce. Some keep their married name, some change it back. Again, personal preference. Some keep their married name even when they divorce because they have children and wish to keep continuity for them.
There is no hard and fast rule as far as name changes go, totally a personal choice.

This is true. I have a few divorced friends, and some kept their married name, some went back...as stated it's a personal decision.

As far as the disfellowshipping arrangement, that is for breaking God's laws, not man's. If the law broken violates God's laws, then yes, the person *may* be disfellowshipped I guess, depending on the circumstances (in JH's case, I can't imagine he won't be)...but the arrangement is done under extreme unrepentant, ongoing violation of God's laws...not a one time and you're out kind of thing, it's VERY dependent on circumstances. And completely separate from secular law.

 

[recyclops]

This is true. I have a few divorced friends, and some kept their married name, some went back...as stated it's a personal decision.

As far as the disfellowshipping arrangement, that is for breaking God's laws, not man's. If the law broken violates God's laws, then yes, the person *may* be disfellowshipped I guess, depending on the circumstances (in JH's case, I can't imagine he won't be)...but the arrangement is done under extreme unrepentant, ongoing violation of God's laws...not a one time and you're out kind of thing, it's VERY dependent on circumstances. And completely separate from secular law.

nicely put

 

[fruity]

This is true. I have a few divorced friends, and some kept their married name, some went back...as stated it's a personal decision.

As far as the disfellowshipping arrangement, that is for breaking God's laws, not man's. If the law broken violates God's laws, then yes, the person *may* be disfellowshipped I guess, depending on the circumstances (in JH's case, I can't imagine he won't be)...but the arrangement is done under extreme unrepentant, ongoing violation of God's laws...not a one time and you're out kind of thing, it's VERY dependent on circumstances. And completely separate from secular law.

I guess his kiddie *advertiser censored* obsession could be seen as an ongoing violation of God's laws. I'm not JW, I have no idea. Just speculating.

 

[Xavier]

I read the part in the affidavit about the interview with the gun shop owner.
I remember the owner said their records showed Holt did buy one gun there.
In June, I believe. I do not recall any mention at all, by the gun shop owner
nor LE, regarding whether Holt was alone or with someone else.

Holt said he and wife have had tension, arguments from finances issues, not a lot of money for extras...which is why he said he split and left for days to "clear his head"...So how can Holt afford to buy guns/ammo?...I'm wondering if someone, maybe an accomplice, helped him buy it. The accomplice theory has been mentioned by some on this board...If I'm a detective, I'd be asking Holt that question..

 

[peace9274]

Me neither:what: and I have NO idea what bloviating means:blushing:

I didn't either. And I too looked it up. LOL

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:

Bloviation is a style of empty, pompous, political speech which originated in Ohio and was used by United States President,
Warren G. Harding who described it as "the art of speaking for as long as the occasion warrants, and saying nothing".

 

[iamnotagolem]

Holt said he and wife have had tension, arguments from finances issues, not a lot of money for extras...which is why he said he split and left for days to "clear his head"...So how can Holt afford to buy guns/ammo?...I'm wondering if someone, maybe an accomplice, helped him buy it. The accomplice theory has been mentioned by some on this board...If I'm a detective, I'd be asking Holt that question..

BBM, link please?

I've only seen mention of the one occasion in August 2011 when he was gone for 12 hours.

Eta: could you also link where the financial arguments were discussed as well as not having money for extras? They had two laptops, iPads, iPhones, etc.

 

[Tracey4AU]

Me neither:what: and I have NO idea what bloviating means:blushing:

Lol! Sorry! It just seemed like no other word quite fit!

 

[recyclops]

Holt said he and wife have had tension, arguments from finances issues, not a lot of money for extras...which is why he said he split and left for days to "clear his head"...So how can Holt afford to buy guns/ammo?...I'm wondering if someone, maybe an accomplice, helped him buy it. The accomplice theory has been mentioned by some on this board...If I'm a detective, I'd be asking Holt that question..

I'm a little confused as to the theory that JH had an accomplice. By all accounts JH was a creeper that was obsessed with WH. Who would he get to be an accomplice? And why? It doesn't make sense to me. IMO he seems to of acted alone.
And as far as the money goes, based on the search warrant affidavit, he and AH seemed to have quite a bit of tech, laptops, ipad etc. And drove a fairly late model car. So they had some way of acquiring items. Perhaps they charged it? and the financial issues had to do with high credit card bills?

 

[Tracey4AU]

From Webster:

Definition of BLOVIATE

: to speak or write verbosely and windily
— blo·vi·a·tion

I admit, I had to look it up. LOL

:thumbup:

 

[Tracey4AU]

I didn't either. And I too looked it up. LOL

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:

Bloviation is a style of empty, pompous, political speech which originated in Ohio and was used by United States President,
Warren G. Harding who described it as "the art of speaking for as long as the occasion warrants, and saying nothing".

I choose to apply this definition. And based on that, I think it is easy to figure out to what I was referring to begin with.

 

[gwenabob]

I want to know about that white vehicle in the Wal Mart parking lot. Connected or not? If so, who was driving it?

That Walmart is very busy. Cars go in and out all day, every day. Since he was found many hours later wandering around on the streets, I think he just walked away and never went home. I think he just wandered all day long trying to come up with his "robbery" plan and not really knowing what his next step would be. It is my opinion that the white SUV is completely unrelated.

 

[Tracey4AU]

That Walmart is very busy. Cars go in and out all day, every day. Since he was found many hours later wandering around on the streets, I think he just walked away and never went home. I think he just wandered all day long trying to come up with his "robbery" plan and not really knowing what his next step would be. It is my opinion that the white SUV is completely unrelated.

Thanks for the reply. I'm leaning that direction too at this point.

 

[iamnotagolem]

The affidavit states that JH said they were "in a very bad situation" and "his wife is the only source of income and they are barely getting by".

I didn't find anything alluding to arguments between JH and AH over finances. From the document it sounds like they had a very distant relationship and he avoided her a lot and did not communicate with her.

 

[gwenabob]

Sadly, I disagree. Though many of this forum are seeming eager that it appear so. It looks like someone is taking great pains to try to supply some 'solid evidence' for this case, but when looked at closely, it's really not. In fact, it's absurd.

Eg. - the Febreze bottle found in the car where they were able to lift 'a fingerprint'...

I'm sorry, but a guy with a car full of blood and brain matter from multiple gunshot wounds is NOT going to try to clean it up with a bottle of household Febreze. That would be laughable if this case weren't so tragic. Even if he's a moron, as many of you seem to think he is. Think about it--where did this clean up happen?

• Did he go into Walmart and buy that bottle, come back out and try to clean it up? I presume this happened in the parking lot? (is it on video that he bought it at Walmart? that the guy was messing around in the back seat of the car?) NO? Then where else?

• On the road, while driving to all those gas stations and ATM machines? Sound feasible to anyone on here?

• In the woods? (Okay, so he planned ahead, grabbing bottle from home before he left? So...this so-called idiot has now planned thoroughly enough to take for this abduction/murder a bottle of Febreze, not 1 but 2 guns to kill an unarmed, unsuspecting, 5'2", 120-lb. young woman, and a screwdriver so that he can thoughtfully drop the front license plate off in the mountain to lead searchers to his victim.)

(BTW, if it IS a bottle from home, there's another--actually far more believable--reason the bottle has his fingerprints on it, and it's not necessarily MURDER. Maybe he actually did some chores?)

*Expect to see an amended pdf out in the next couple of days to answer these and other questions. We'll probably also discover he's killed cats as a youth, poisoned his mother, and sold secrets to foreign intelligence.

I believe there was more than one perp involved in this, I know there has been untruthful accounting, and I look forward to watching this case unravel in the days ahead.

I saw a picture of Whitney's SUV very early in the case where the back liftgate was open and you could see into the back of the vehicle. Don't ask me to find that picture because I just don't remember where I saw it, but it was a photo taken pre-murder. I noticed that there was at least one tub of items in the back of the car. I suspect Whitney carried a lot of stuff around all the time. She probably had an emergency blanket, cleaning supplies, who knows what? I keep a blanket and other supplies in case of an emergency. She might have had a bottle of febreeze in there already for when she cleans out her car. She may have had a sheet there from sometime when she carried something dirty and didn't want to mess up her car. I think JH actually *is* stupid enough to think spraying some febreeze around would cover the odor of blood temporarily. At least long enough for him to dump the car and get away from the smell of death.

 

[nikb]

Posting this as a "quick reply" instead of quoting so hopefully no one takes offense or thinks I'm talking to him/her/them directly. Why the sleuthing and attacking (although subtle) of AH? I'm not even really looking for an answer, just confused.

 

[iamnotagolem]

Re: white SUV, is this not the vehicle referred to in the document that they took into police impound when they arrested JH? My guess is he had his motorcycle somewhere near Walmart. He killed Whitney, dumped her body, etc, then went to his wife's work and grabbed her vehicle and got more stuff out of Whitney's vehicle and disposed of it. Then he took his wife's vehicle back to her work then walked around all day.

Remember AH saying she noticed his motorcycle parked in a weird spot when she got home from work and that it wasn't in his spot or on their porch when she left that morning?

Or I could be completely wrong.

Maybe someone saw the broken window and thought about robbing it until they saw all the blood and decided they didnt need to go down for murder when they just wanted to do some petty theiving.

 

[gwenabob]

It would have had her fingerprints on it.

Who says it didn't?

 

[nikb]

Re: white SUV, is this not the vehicle referred to in the document that they took into police impound when they arrested JH? My guess is he had his motorcycle somewhere near Walmart. He killed Whitney, dumped her body, etc, then went to his wife's work and grabbed her vehicle and got more stuff out of Whitney's vehicle and disposed of it. Then he took his wife's vehicle back to her work then walked around all day.

Remember AH saying she noticed his motorcycle parked in a weird spot when she got home from work and that it wasn't in his spot or on their porch when she left that morning?

<snipped for space>

YES I remember all of this about the different cars, the walking around, and the parking space(s) of the motorcycle. I know there was mention of a white utility vehicle in the affidavit (don't recall it being described as an SUV). I've thought from very early on that the motorcycle was probably placed somewhere near the Walmart the day before, but I don't have anything to really base that on except a hunch.

All MOO...

 

[recyclops]

Posting this as a "quick reply" instead of quoting so hopefully no one takes offense or thinks I'm talking to him/her/them directly. Why the sleuthing and attacking (although subtle) of AH? I'm not even really looking for an answer, just confused.

I've only noticed one post earlier today where someone said they thought they saw a mug shot of AH when they googled her name and they posted the link. And the consensus was it wasn't her. Has there been more? I have no idea why someone is sleuthing AH, bored maybe?
Just for the record I personally believe her to be an innocent party.

 

[gwenabob]

IIRC early on there was some mention that when her manager first talked to CH he/she(not sure which?) asked if WH had "decided to be sick" or something similar. It's a stretch IMO but maybe she called to see if they had enough staffing that she didn't need to come in if she was feeling a bit iffy/under the weather?

IMO I really don't think she talked to the manager that day, but it could explain the somewhat strange comment about her "deciding" to be sick.

Personally, I don't read anything at all into the odd phrasing of the "deciding" to be sick. Lots of jobs have a unique phrasing of language and a sort of shorthand that they use and everyone in that job understands, even though the phrasing sounds odd to the outsider. I think "deciding to be sick" is simply shorthand for "deciding to take a sick day" which we would all understand just fine. I really think it is a red herring.