Oscar Pistorius Defense

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minor4th said:
Was it ever determined if it was Stander in the court room during some of the case? If he's testifying, that suggests it wasn't him in the court room
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Not sure we had that confirmed. Maybe its a pure guess with respect to him being up first; we shall soon know.
 
Carmelita said:
Hi Homegirl and thanks for the clarifying.

Attribute my questions to my curious mind.

I personally think the text is significant as it was little less than a month before Reeva was killed when she would have texted playfully with Oscar about shouting at him and he received it playfully.


As to speculation, I brought that up myself as there seems to be a lot of speculation here and I was told that is the way this forum rolls, people speculate about facts and theories, so why would it be wrong to speculate about that text in particular?

Thanks :)
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What possible significance could that text have? Do you think victims of domestic abuse never share playful moments with their abusers?

What's more significant is OP put 4 bullets through the door that Reeva locked herself behind at 3 am. Yes, that's is definitely much more significant.
 
crasshopper said:
lol, I was afraid to ask, so tnx!

Lisa, who is Erin Stear?
It was ridiculous OP wouldn't admit to the *advertiser censored* on the stand...his answers were just disingenuous.
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She is a woman that Oscar met/befriended/possibly hooked up with (although no confirmation) while he was dating Reeva and was exchanging flirty text messages with her.

She was interviewed by investigators and was on the State's witness list. She denies any affair took place but I have to imagine that the text messages are real, otherwise why would the investigators have spoken with her.
 
Jim Kirk said:
Can't see the relevant thread for today's proceedings, so I apologise, but can someone confirm whether or not it kicks off again in 2 hours from now?
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Yes. I will be opening it in about 45 minutes.
 
Carmelita said:
s


And that is what I think is the more likely scenario. Reeva was one of many beauties on Oscar's buffet, she even mentioned in one of her texts that she was not one of his *****es, This indicates to me that for Oscar it was a casual relationship for Reeva it was the beginning of a long term love affair.
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This post made my stomach hurt.

Referring to Reeva as being on OP's "buffet" can't get much more misogynistic.

Saying she wasn't one of OP's b!tches meant that she wasn't going to put up with his bulll*****. Probably the same thing that led to the screaming that 5 neighbors heard the night OP killed her.
 
atthelake said:
What did Standard add for the defense???
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I think probably mitigating the murder charge and bolstering OP's claim it was 'accidental'.
It came across as selective and not entirely convincing, to me anyway. They're main aim, it would seem, was to describe how emotional OP was.

Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.
 
atthelake said:
What did Standard add for the defense???
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Was thinking about this too.
Considering they were originally (or maybe just J. Stander) a State's witness, I wasn't too surprised the x-exams weren't volatile like with other defence witnesses.

I think they helped in these ways:

1. He and his daughter backed up OP's claims of his actions post-shooting.

2. They backed up OP's state of mind/emotional state post-shooting and even the "help help help" that she heard.

3. They backed up mostly Stipp and VRensburg's stories (pretty sure).

4. They completed the picture, in my opinion. Without them it wouldn't be complete because they were main people involved that night. I can't think of anyone left to hear from that, if they didn't testify, would leave a big gap in testimonies of who was there that night. More ear witnesses might be coming, psychologist, ballistics. The only person left to hear from who was there would be the person who lived on his property, Frank, but it appears he said he heard/saw nothing.
 
sicknote said:
......snipped

What's his excuse for firing a gun in a restaurant and out of a sunroof?

You honestly believe the neighbours heard a cricket bat hitting the door from close to 200m which woke them up?

You think he shot Reeva and then messed about for 10-15 mins without calling anyone?

Did the police drizzle blood on the duvet to match the blood on the floor after removing it from the bed?

What was going through OP's mind when he was watching *advertiser censored* and possibly masturbating while his girlfriend was making his dinner? How bizarre is that?

Reeva I'm just going to pop upstairs and knock one out.....don't you dare overcook my chicken. How unbelievably strange is that?
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I don't think there is any excuse for firing a gun in a restaurant or out a sunroof? I expect he will be convicted on those charges and sentenced appropriately.

It was not intuitive to any of us that bat strikes might sound uncannily like gunshots. But that is what the evidence seems to suggest. And nobody claims to have been awoken by bat strikes or the sounds that Oscar claims were bat strikes...right?

I think he shot through his bathroom door. From there there was time lost to figuring out and confirming what he had done. Too much time? Maybe. It does give me some pause, but not enough to change the basic events in my mind.

I don't think anybody has given much of a satisfying account of why there is blood in the bedroom anywhere. That Oscar can't explain why the duvet was on the floor is not at this time a big thing for me.

There is absolutely nothing even remotely odd to me about a 26 year old man looking at *advertiser censored* in an extended private moment. Some men might wait until their girlfriend was not in the house but many are just great compartmentalizers who would wade right in. I don't think the *advertiser censored* viewing is relevant to anything, including his character or his feelings for Reeva.
 
jimmy73 said:
BBM

There is certainly something to be said for OP's jumpy, intruder fearing gun-nut story and it may seem to fit the bill more simply than sudden intimate homicide scenario. However, intimate homicides, and those that stem from heated arguments, are far more common than the accidental shooting of a loved one presumed to be an intruder, by a scale of 10 to 1 on a quick calc.

(http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/753058_2,
http://opdv.state.ny.us/statistics/nationaldvdata/nationaldvdata.pdf)

Re the bolding, I just can't see gunshots at ~03:00 and bat at ~03:16 fitting in with OP's testimony of breaking into the toilet, and it seems an unreasonable length time not to have sort medical assistance.

It's also quite possible they went to bed and then didn't sleep or woke and resume a simmering argument at ~02:00, which would explain the downtime in GPRS stuff.
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This is a good example of the previous point I made about individual approaches to reasoning. We have generalized aggregate data about intimate partner violence vs accidental shootings and we have specific information about Pistorius' past behaviour. To me the latter might be expected to be more relevant, to others the former. To me your scenario is a bit like using par on a golf hole to predict a golfer's performance rather than his own historical statistics.

The time between 'gunshots' is concerning. But not, at least yet, fatal to Oscar's version in my mind.

It is possible that they only awoke later, but if I'm not mistaken the state's version is that they never went to bed at all. So I feel somewhat bound to the versions presented in court as a benchmark for assessing probabilities.
 
JuneBug67 said:
To me your scenario is a bit like using par on a golf hole to predict a golfer's performance rather than his own historical statistics.
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I'm a fan of a good analogy and your golf one is good :)

In this instance, I'm simply using statistics to demonstrate that before getting into the testimonies and evidence of the night, the most probable cause of RS's death is intimate partner homicide, particularly on February 14 where there is a statistical rise in IPV/IPH and in South Africa where this crime is more common than other nations.

But with respect to OP's past behaviour, he has shown a proclivity for carrying and brandishing a firearm, and I would argue, seeing it as an extension of himself. This is a good predictor for the future use/misuse of a firearm and is also a significant contributing factor in IPH.

Humans beings have a great capacity for sudden, unpredictable, irrational, or emotional behaviour or responses to situations and the world's courts are full of individuals of previous general good character, who through a few seconds of recklessness have thrown their or other's lives away.

As you say, this is just general statistics though.

I think OP's version becomes even more improbable once you looks at the chain of events (compounded probability) required needed for him to mistakenly shoot RS unidentified through the toilet door.
 
PPKik said:
OF course there is room for debate! I think there is a lot of room for debate on just about every aspect of this case.

These are not the words of a "scared" woman, in my opinion.

How often has someone said you "scare me," when they don't mean "scare" literally? It is often used as a figure of speech to make a point. Do I think Reeva was actually scared of OP? Absolutely not.

On Feb. 13th-14th, I don't know.

If there weren't room for debate, we'd all be agreeing, and we don't.


Reeva to Oscar
Jan. 26, 2013
14:17:34

"I can't get that day back.

"I'm scared of you sometimes and how u snap at me and how u will react to me.

"You make me happy 90% of the time and i think we are amazing together but I am not some other ***** you may know trying to kill your vibe. I am the girl who let go with u even when I scared out of my mind to. I'm the girl who fell in love with u and wanted to tell you this weekend."



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...sometimes-and-how-you-snap-at-me-9250376.html
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BBM

I don't know how much more scared a woman could sound in a text when she is literally stating what makes her afraid. From the viewpoint of having volunteered in domestic violence advocacies on both sides of the pond - when I know these words to have been used it damn sure meant that they were actually, legitimately, literally fearful. She literally states she is afraid of how he snaps at her and reacts to her. We've all been surprised by someone and said 'Oh, you scared me!' but we didn't say 'Oh, I'm scared how you react to me!'. There is a huge difference considering she is very specific.

And the most overwhelming evidence for this being an abusive relationship is her death at his hands, especially in light of her words previously.
 
Madeleine74 said:
None of the *advertiser censored* watching stuff or their sex life changes the basics of the crime itself. I realize it's salacious and fun to speculate about but at the end of the day, we don't know what all occurred in that house except for the fact that OP shot RS 4 times and came up with a story to try and explain that somehow this gun magically went off, seemingly by itself, shooting at an alleged intruder that was not really there. The bullets were magical too--they just spit out of that gun and found Reeva in the loo. Poor Oscar was just nonplussed at all this happening.
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I love websleuths. First post I read is spot on..... Boom. Truth.
 
A few questions (Assuming OP's case is fabricated):

1) Why would he need to change his position where he sleeps on the bed, how does that help his version?

2) Why, if lying about police putting the blanket on the floor, doesn't he make up a scenario that he put duvet on the floor when he was looking for Reeva on way back instead? Wouldn't that be more plausible that a policeman moving it?

3) Why doesn't he say that Reeva could have got food while he's sleeping to cover the food problem?

4) Why does he need to add the bit about putting his head in his hands when he wakes up?

5) Why does he not say he turned the bedroom light on when he came back to look for Reeva to account for it being on in the photos?
 
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