Oscar Pistorius Defense

[Bobbie Elliott]

It was his racehorse trainer, Mike Azzie. There are two sources for this, in one he said his son knocked over a fan which alerted OP. In the second he said his son made a noise (presumably knocking over the fan although he didn't specify) while going to the toilet during the night.

The important point for me about this incident is that it's another example of OP going on the prowl with a gun on hearing something suspicious but not shooting anything or anyone.

You'd think that after going commando on a washing machine, a friend's son, and who knows what else, OP would have learnt to be very very careful when shooting a supposed intruder, without confirming that it was an intruder.

 

[shane13]

You'd think that after going commando on a washing machine, a friend's son, and who knows what else, OP would have learnt to be very very careful when shooting a supposed intruder, without confirming that it was an intruder.

Bobbie:

As you know I've written “this one runs deep”--and that refers to so many aspects…

I have noted that some things are very troubling as to the possibility that something may have been planned far longer. I am not saying I definitely believe this to be true, but I consider it.

His friend Menelao owned the ladders left outside that night. But he knew that those same ladders left outside Menealo's house some 1.5 yrs earlier led to Menelao's house being burgled by an estate guard. So why?

The recon mode/washing machine aspect invites Shane's use of logic now.;
That very public tweet about attacking what turned out to be a washing machine--followed by a WAA! n the tweet-- publicly made him look whacko. His sponsors prob were not happy. There’s big bucks involved, so why make such a tweet? Except what was to come later… Maybe

It reminds me of the Sharon Stone movie, Basic instinct. When the boxer is killed in the way that SS character's book had portrayed, it could either look like she did it, or that it couldn't possibly be her--because why would she make herself a suspect?

BTW, if you think you now that only the "ShrinK' did it, the director has said, it was both.

in the OP case, the Pros. affidavit states something like: Pros can not know how far ahead of that night the plan existed, but it certainy did from the moment he chose to get his gun from the one room and go after her in the other and kill her." [Or words to that effect.]

Now the part about how far in advance is probably standard legalese. But it prob. became standard legalese because sometimes it later is found out that the "plan" did exist far earlier... JMO

 

[turaj]

Just read this:
http://ewn.co.za/2014/05/02/Expert-testimony-to-lead-Pistorius-trial

Mentions who will be coming up to testify:

"Defence advocate Barry Roux has told several state witnesses that he will call an expert witness to testify that the athlete’s screams sound like a woman when he is anxious."

"A psychologist is also expected to be called to deal with Pistorius's issues of vulnerability."

It's not a long article but it's a little clue about what is to come.
Nice to finally see some new news articles coming out!
Really looking forward the trial continuing on!!

They can put anyone they want up there...I am 100% confident that Gerrie Nel will take them completely apart.

 

[K.T]

While I’ve been writing, been catching up on vids about Pistorius and Steenkamp to get a feel for their characters. Here are a few things that struck me:

Pistorius’ is a weightlifting, boxing trained Olympic running athlete with large upper body musculature. The Johan Stander first-call is a problem in Pistorius’ defense version.

He did not need Stander, I’m sure he was never confused about needing his friend, to help carry Steenkamp. And it’s obvious he shouldn’t have lifted her bleeding body because a call to Netcare hadn’t even happened yet.

A Cheese-horrifica youtube of Pistorius dancing and lifting a partner, showing his strength and balance–

• Pistorius shows his pronounced upper body strength, agility and stamina by lifting a woman in a 360-degree turn. (at 0.50 & 1.54min) As he can LIFT and spin a woman in the air - on his prosthetics, in front of an audience to a mass of camera’s in time to music - this is not someone who is too weak to lift a slender model's body.
• I think this also shows he could not be confused about his strength, he’s obviously practiced this move many times for the TV dance.
• He called Stander for another reason entirely and it’s the same reason why he didn’t call the police.
• Oscar Pistorius is dancing as special guest on the Italian TV Ballando con le Stelle at Auditorium Rai in Rome, Italy, with Annalisa Longo to Abba's ''The Winner Takes It All''.

Oscar Pistorius 07/01/12 - YouTube

 

[JudgeJudi]

Here's another person with definite views:

"Blade Runner Trial: Can Pistorius' Case Be Saved"

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/blade-runner-trial-pistorius-case-saved-23558851

 

[crasshopper]

While I’ve been writing, been catching up on vids about Pistorius and Steenkamp to get a feel for their characters. Here are a few things that struck me:

Pistorius’ is a weightlifting, boxing trained Olympic running athlete with large upper body musculature. The Johan Stander first-call is a problem in Pistorius’ defense version.

He did not need Stander, I’m sure he was never confused about needing his friend, to help carry Steenkamp. And it’s obvious he shouldn’t have lifted her bleeding body because a call to Netcare hadn’t even happened yet.

A Cheese-horrifica youtube of Pistorius dancing and lifting a partner, showing his strength and balance–

• Pistorius shows his pronounced upper body strength, agility and stamina by lifting a woman in a 360-degree turn. (at 1.54min) As he can LIFT and spin a woman in the air - on his stumps, in front of an audience to a mass of camera’s in time to music - this is not someone who is too weak to lift a slender model's body.
  
• I think this also shows he could not be confused about his strength, he’s obviously practiced this move many times for the TV dance.
• He called Stander for another reason entirely and it’s the same reason why he didn’t call the police.
• Oscar Pistorius is dancing as special guest on the Italian TV Ballando con le Stelle at Auditorium Rai in Rome, Italy, with Annalisa Longo to Abba's ''The Winner Takes It All''.

Further evidence that questions the real reason for his call to Stander.
"Evidence" Nel should perhaps present imo. Thank you.

 

[toevlugsoord]

Further evidence that questions the real reason for his call to Stander.
"Evidence" Nel should perhaps present imo. Thank you.

Both he and Clarice are on the witness list.
If neither are called, it will appear very suspicious to everyone including surely the Judge...they were both so heavily involved in the scene after.
They simply must be called, at least one of them.

And I will definitely be on tenterhooks waiting to hear what they say...although how neutral/unbiased/reliable they are as witnesses will remain to be seen as OP himself has called Stander a friend and his daughter is a lawyer.

 

[lisasalinger]

While I’ve been writing, been catching up on vids about Pistorius and Steenkamp to get a feel for their characters. Here are a few things that struck me:

Pistorius’ is a weightlifting, boxing trained Olympic running athlete with large upper body musculature. The Johan Stander first-call is a problem in Pistorius’ defense version.

He did not need Stander, I’m sure he was never confused about needing his friend, to help carry Steenkamp. And it’s obvious he shouldn’t have lifted her bleeding body because a call to Netcare hadn’t even happened yet.

A Cheese-horrifica youtube of Pistorius dancing and lifting a partner, showing his strength and balance–

• Pistorius shows his pronounced upper body strength, agility and stamina by lifting a woman in a 360-degree turn. (at 1.54min) As he can LIFT and spin a woman in the air - on his prosthetics, in front of an audience to a mass of camera’s in time to music - this is not someone who is too weak to lift a slender model's body.
  
• I think this also shows he could not be confused about his strength, he’s obviously practiced this move many times for the TV dance.
• He called Stander for another reason entirely and it’s the same reason why he didn’t call the police.
• Oscar Pistorius is dancing as special guest on the Italian TV Ballando con le Stelle at Auditorium Rai in Rome, Italy, with Annalisa Longo to Abba's ''The Winner Takes It All''.

Oscar Pistorius 07/01/12 - YouTube

Oh my.... I can't get over the guy at the end... "WHAT A MAN... FANTASTIC!" Ahhhhh And then OP leans in for a kiss and no response from the girl.

:Banane48

 

[shane13]

While I’ve been writing, been catching up on vids about Pistorius and Steenkamp to get a feel for their characters. Here are a few things that struck me:

Pistorius’ is a weightlifting, boxing trained Olympic running athlete with large upper body musculature. The Johan Stander first-call is a problem in Pistorius’ defense version.

He did not need Stander, I’m sure he was never confused about needing his friend, to help carry Steenkamp. And it’s obvious he shouldn’t have lifted her bleeding body because a call to Netcare hadn’t even happened yet.

A Cheese-horrifica youtube of Pistorius dancing and lifting a partner, showing his strength and balance–

• Pistorius shows his pronounced upper body strength, agility and stamina by lifting a woman in a 360-degree turn. (at 0.50 & 1.54min) As he can LIFT and spin a woman in the air - on his prosthetics, in front of an audience to a mass of camera’s in time to music - this is not someone who is too weak to lift a slender model's body.
  
• I think this also shows he could not be confused about his strength, he’s obviously practiced this move many times for the TV dance.
• He called Stander for another reason entirely and it’s the same reason why he didn’t call the police.
• Oscar Pistorius is dancing as special guest on the Italian TV Ballando con le Stelle at Auditorium Rai in Rome, Italy, with Annalisa Longo to Abba's ''The Winner Takes It All''.

Oscar Pistorius 07/01/12 - YouTube

Indeed, KT.

And despite the public disinfo, he has good balance, speed and strength when on his stumps too.

If not for Stipp and Baba...

And after his supposed great love, Reeva, was basically declared dead, did he then sob, or cradle her?

No, it was "Excuse me you all, I just have some crime scene alteration to tend to. Be back in a jiff."

 

[sicknote]

Bobbie:

As you know I've written “this one runs deep”--and that refers to so many aspects…

I have noted that some things are very troubling as to the possibility that something may have been planned far longer. I am not saying I definitely believe this to be true, but I consider it.

.......snipped

Yeah, like not bothering to buy your partner a valentines card or gift because you knew you were going to kill her........why waste the money.

OP was a time bomb just waiting to go off. I do not believe for one minute the boating accident caused any sort of brain injury. What we have witnessed has been the real OP. His family have mollycoddled him and allowed the monster to grow.

I would guess none of his mates are really surprised by what happened.

The guy is a nutter.......

 

[crasshopper]

Indeed, KT.

And despite the public disinfo, he has good balance, speed and strength when on his stumps too.

If not for Stipp and Baba...

And after his supposed great love, Reeva, was basically declared dead, did he then sob, or cradle her?

No, it was "Excuse me you all, I just have some crime scene alteration to tend to. Be back in a jiff."

BIB2-
...exactly
Sorry, but most people, imo, would hate to have blood all over themselves yet it would not & oft does not register when you're "saving" a loved one.

OP didn't disappear upstairs the 1st time, minutes after Reeva "died in his arms," to wash up, that was later IIRC. What EXACTLY did he do on that trip upstairs?

Imo, he was hoping we would forget hence the omission of any detail regarding 'this little trip' in his bail application or statement at opening. jmo

 

[liesbeth]

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/woman-intervenes-in-oscar-ruling-1.1652405#.U2NSK-hX-uY


Pretoria - A woman, only known as Annamarie, addressed the High Court in Pretoria on Tuesday, opposing an application for the murder trial of paralympian Oscar Pistorius to be broadcast.

In February last year, the same woman requested to address the Pretoria Magistrate's Court on his “mental state” during the sports star's bail hearing.

She asked the court to put Pistorius under independent psychiatric observation for 60 days.

She also wanted Pretoria chief Magistrate Desmond Nair removed from Pistorius's bail bid.

Annamarie claims to be the ex-wife of Dr Gerald Versfeld who amputated Pistorius's legs when he was a child. She believed Pistorius had a mental breakdown.

On Tuesday, Judge Dunstan Mlambo told the woman to sit down, saying she was wasting the court's time.


Uh oh.


http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/oscar-s-dead-mom-asked-me-to-help-him-1.1475017#.U2NVG-hX-uY


Pretoria - Oscar Pistorius’s dead biological mother came to her in a dream and asked her to help her son.

This is what a woman who claims to have known Pistorius since he was a toddler is saying.

She said her last name was uncertain as she was previously Riethmiller and also previously Versfeld – “ex-wife of Oscar’s orthopaedic surgeon, Dr Gerald Versfeld.

Annamarie explained to the judge that she felt Pistorius snapped the night he shot Steenkamp as this was not the “Oscar I knew as a little boy”.

The judge dismissed her, but that doesn't mean that her theory is wrong. It is possible. Another thing I've often wondered is how much of the Testis Compositum Oscar took.

Anyway. My theory is that they had a fight and he shot her during a rage. And so it follows that I believe he is twisting the truth. But when I look at his sister in court, and I look at Reeva's mother, I can see their hearts bleeding. And then I can't help thinking that it would be a relief for them to have something to explain his actions.

 

[JudgeJudi]

On the subject of OP sounding like a woman, one day he had a big breakdown during cross-examination just before lunch. I read an article (and sorry, I've looked but can't find it now) where a journalist said she did think he sounded like a woman.

Well I listened to it and there's no way he sounded like a woman to me. He was crying and wailing.

Let the DT bring on the sound experts, but a tape won't suffice because you'd never know how they played around with the product. Bring in the ear witnesses and let's have a live demonstration. That should satisfy everyone once and for all. I dare them.

 

[BritsKate]

<modsnip>

I believe Oscar intentionally killed Reeva. There is still part of me that is hoping to be proven wrong by the defence though - not because I give a whit about Oscar, but for Reeva and the many who love her. They already are forced to face everyday without her and will already always wonder 'what if'...

If I'm right it not only means Reeva's last moments were spent in sheer terror and she KNEW what was happening to her and by whom - it also means everyone who cared for her will spend the rest of their lives with those images burned to their memory. For this reason, I so want this to be an accident she never saw coming.

The problem for me is that everything presented so far really does contradict Oscar's 'version'. I either have to invent or ignore evidence to make it work. So my logic wars with hope.


Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Bottom line here I think is the following.

If successors to the black talon line of bullets were better or such, why did (or are) gun enthusiasts paying more to get BTs which the manufacturer stopped making 20 years ago?
Remember Oscar was about to become a certified gun collector.
He is quite knowledable about guns and bullets and what each does.
So are others who pay more for these "obsolete" bullets.

Clearly they know... JMO

From what I've read gun dealers and collectors want them for nostalgic reasons.

 

[JudgeJudi]

I believe Oscar intentionally killed Reeva. There is still part of me that is hoping to be proven wrong by the defence though - not because I give a whit about Oscar, but for Reeva and the many who love her. They already are forced to face everyday without her and will already always wonder 'what if'...

If I'm right it not only means Reeva's last moments were spent in sheer terror and she KNEW what was happening to her and by whom - it also means everyone who cared for her will spend the rest of their lives with those images burned to their memory. For this reason, I so want this to be an accident she never saw coming.

The problem for me is that everything presented so far really does contradict Oscar's 'version'. I either have to invent or ignore evidence to make it work. So my logic wars with hope.


Please pardon errors as posted via Tapatalk with a less than stellar user.

Those last 15 minutes of her life really haunt me. I too can't imagine the terror she must have felt being in that tiny room. No-one deserves to die like that. It was an execution.

 

[Viper]

While I’ve been writing, been catching up on vids about Pistorius and Steenkamp to get a feel for their characters. Here are a few things that struck me:

Pistorius’ is a weightlifting, boxing trained Olympic running athlete with large upper body musculature. The Johan Stander first-call is a problem in Pistorius’ defense version.

He did not need Stander, I’m sure he was never confused about needing his friend, to help carry Steenkamp. And it’s obvious he shouldn’t have lifted her bleeding body because a call to Netcare hadn’t even happened yet.

A Cheese-horrifica youtube of Pistorius dancing and lifting a partner, showing his strength and balance–

• Pistorius shows his pronounced upper body strength, agility and stamina by lifting a woman in a 360-degree turn. (at 0.50 & 1.54min) As he can LIFT and spin a woman in the air - on his prosthetics, in front of an audience to a mass of camera’s in time to music - this is not someone who is too weak to lift a slender model's body.
  
• I think this also shows he could not be confused about his strength, he’s obviously practiced this move many times for the TV dance.
• He called Stander for another reason entirely and it’s the same reason why he didn’t call the police.
• Oscar Pistorius is dancing as special guest on the Italian TV Ballando con le Stelle at Auditorium Rai in Rome, Italy, with Annalisa Longo to Abba's ''The Winner Takes It All''.

Oscar Pistorius 07/01/12 - YouTube

Thank you for that video! I didn't really want to watch it, but I did. He didnt really lift the dancer from the floor though, she literally kicked her weight up in to his arms as he was standing erect and straight, both times.

Watching him try to dance he looks very awkward and unstable. I think that it is wrong to believe that he would be able to easily lift Reeva's weight from the floor. He is literally standing on two stilts. Nest described that OP first pulled Reeva's body (torso) up in to a vertical position and then had to get the rest of her weight off of the floor so that she could be cradled in his arms. Even with his upper body strength it had to be very hard to get her off of the floor and cradled in his arms in a fully erect standing position. Obviously he pulled it off, but I give deference to it having been very hard to do without Reeva (the dancer) helping to lift her weight off of the ground. :twocents:

 

[DebinGA]

I thought there was finally consensus from both sides that she ended up with her lower torso elevated by the magazine rack?

 

[Viper]

I thought there was finally consensus from both sides that she ended up with her lower torso elevated by the magazine rack?

:no: OP says the mag rack was located in the middle of the back wall, or in the corner of the back wall and the right wall, or against the right wall - take your pick of the three choices. But he says it was not where it is shown in the photos, the police moved it there. Dixon "apparently says OP is wrong about that, but...

Mag rack against the right wall at about 36:00, the other two choices come later but I did not make note of the video timestamps for those:

http://youtu.be/btILfzDbfWA

 

[JuneBug67]

I'm sure by now nearly everyone believes his story is a pack of lies and can't reasonably possibly be true, but for the small minority who think otherwise, no amount of convincing will suffice because they're completely closed-minded.

Generally speaking I have found those that have not made up their minds or those who continue to lean towards Oscar's not having targeted Reeva specifically to be both curious and open minded. The divide to me seems to be in methods of reasoning. Reasoning is a very specific skill that goes much farther than the "common sense" that presumably we would all credit ourselves with.