Oscar Pistorius - Discussion Thread #67 *Appeal Verdict*

[Colin de France]

He should be wrestling with penitence, atonement and reconciliation. To do that he needs to be honest with himself and his fellow man, to accept society's punishment and take it like a man. Only then will he earn a degree of sympathy and understanding that some have given him so freely and thus been his enablers in his spiral into depression, self-loathing and self-pity. Neither Roux, his sycophantic fans, or his family have done him any favours here. His soul is crying out for a whole different kind of help and that alone will torment him far more than any prison sentence. He would be better off accepting the punishment for his crimes and examining his conscience.

......the thing is.....will he appeal or not ?.......

 

[mrjitty]

I see Phelps is determined to cheer lead at the expense of balanced analysis

In a case like this, which is already in exceptional terrain because the state has taken the unusual step of appealing a conviction, there are big legal questions around double jeopardy and the legal ambit of the Supreme Court of Appeal,” she said.

James Grant
‏@JamesGrantZA James Grant Retweeted Daily Maverick
Phelps seems to have done it again - here that a constitutional pnt is required to appeal to the Con Court. Not so.

 

[mrjitty]

I just can't see how he can be granted bail. He is a convicted murderer and his sentence is likely to be greater than what he has already served so he will be sent to jail, of that there is no doubt surely. So all bail achieves is to give him the opportunity to flee. I also don't understand that he is in legal limbo until a bail application. Surely he has to be in custody, even in the local watch house pending a bail application because again he is a convicted murderer who will go to jail and a flight risk.

I completely agree.

He is a convicted murderer who is going back to jail

On what basis would bail be awarded?

To what end?

Why has the state not been succesful in obtaining an arrest warrant to exercise immediately?

Strange

 

[Deleted member 102539]

http://www.sabc.co.za/news/a/c0edfa...8c/Waiting-game-begins-for-Pistorius-20151204

Waiting game begins for Pistorius

Speaking on AM Live, Booth says some experts say that the house arrest should not apply because he is now going to be re-sentenced, Pistorius should be arrested and then the court will decide on bail.

He says the way forward from here brings about a legal debate.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

February 21, 2013 11:29 GMT

At yesterday's hearing, Botha recommended Pistorius not be granted bail as he believed the athlete was a flight risk.

He said Pistorius had several offshore accounts and that "we don't want another Dewani matter", refereeing to the British man accused of killing his new bride in South Africa on their honeymoon.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/oscar-pistorius-reeva-steenkamp-murder-trial-bail-437759

 

[Cherwell]

Is anyone else shocked that Masipa will be sentencing again?

I'd like to think that someone will corner her just before the hearing, shake her till her teeth rattle, and tell her in no uncertain terms to do the job properly this time.

 

[Paul Connelly]

......the thing is.....will he appeal or not ?.......

Time will tell.

If Roux is able to find a viable angle he surely will appeal. Meanwhile, Oscar continues to fall into the abyss. He needs to face up to what he has done and and the inevitable consequences. Otherwise he will never be free whether he is inside or outside prison. The appeal is a red herring, tempting him away from what he really ought to be concentrating on. The harder he resists the further from grace he falls.

It's a no win situation. He has to face up to the horrific crime he knowingly and willingly committed and accept his punishment as a necessary part of his rehabilitation and redemption. On past evidence it doesn't seem likely. He'll willingly hurtle headlong into the gates of oblivion before he'll give way to his huge ego and misplaced sense of self righteousness.

 

[mrjitty]

http://www.sabc.co.za/news/a/c0edfa...8c/Waiting-game-begins-for-Pistorius-20151204

Waiting game begins for Pistorius

Speaking on AM Live, Booth says some experts say that the house arrest should not apply because he is now going to be re-sentenced, Pistorius should be arrested and then the court will decide on bail.

He says the way forward from here brings about a legal debate.

This is what I think.

He should be immediately arrested.

Then he can apply for bail (which he should not get).

 

[soozieqtips]

This is what I think.

He should be immediately arrested.

Then he can apply for bail (which he should not get).

BIB - of course he should. As soon as the verdict was changed he should have been taken straight back to jail. How is it possible that a convicted murderer can be 'free' to do as he likes while awaiting a new sentence? It's madness. Does this happen with other people whose verdicts have been overturned or is this just more special treatment for OP?

 

[Tortoise]

IMO Roux's a "shy-stir". He has zero integrity left. He was renowned as a "gun for hire" but he crossed the line with this case. His duty is always to the court and to uphold the law. He did not come close to upholding his primary duty; his only concern was to win whatever the cost. How many more murderers would have evaded justice if the SCA had heeded his Heads of Argument. He's a clever guy and knew his arguments were unconscionable and against the best interests of justice.

Brilliant post

 

[L2L]

PROSECUTORS WANT PISTORIUS IN COURT BY TUESDAY
http://ewn.co.za/2015/12/05/Prosecutors-want-Pistorius-in-court-by-Tuesday

Can you explain why it's understood that the prosecution won't oppose the bail?!

 

[Tortoise]

remorse defined in SCA case law

"There is, moreover, a chasm between regret and remorse. Many accused persons might well regret their conduct, but that does not without more translate to genuine remorse. Remorse is a gnawing pain of conscience for the plight of another. Thus genuine contrition can only come from an appreciation and acknowledgement of the extent of one's error.

Whether the offender is sincerely remorseful, and not simply feeling sorry for himself or herself at having been caught, is a factual question. It is to the surrounding actions of the accused, rather than what he says in court, that one should rather look. In order for the remorse to be a valid consideration, the penitence must be sincere and the accused must take the court fully into his or her confidence. Until and unless that happens, the genuineness of the contrition alleged to exist cannot be determined.

After all, before a court can find that an accused person is genuinely remorseful, it needs to have a proper appreciation of, inter alia: what motivated the accused to commit the deed; what has since provoked his or her change of heart; and whether he or she does indeed have a true appreciation of the consequences of those actions.’


http://www.saflii.org/za/cases/ZASCA/2015/187.pdf

ETA An incidental link is that Lerena tells us that OP is off women as he still loves Reeva!!! Something he will need to keep shoring up until all his judicial opportunities are used up.

Thank you cotton. Needs re-posting IMO.

 

[soozieqtips]

Can you explain why it's understood that the prosecution won't oppose the bail?!

I'd like to know as well. They opposed it when he was first charged with murder but it was rejected. Now OP has been convicted of a more serious crime than CH, why wouldn't they oppose it?

 

[Interested Bystander]

I completely agree.

He is a convicted murderer who is going back to jail

On what basis would bail be awarded?

To what end?

Why has the state not been succesful in obtaining an arrest warrant to exercise immediately?

Strange

It would have been a whole lot easier if the SCA had handed down the terms. There seems not to be a well oiled mechanism in place for the current situation.

 

[mrjitty]

I don't see OP as a serial killer, sexual sadist, rapist of young teens (which is what Bernardo is), but YMMV I suppose.

He's an abuser - which is a behaviour that will not stop unless he is treated

 

[L2L]

I'd like to know as well. They opposed it when he was first charged with murder but it was rejected. Now OP has been convicted of a more serious crime than CH, why wouldn't they oppose it?

Could it be that Oscar always wins?! I just don't get it! You'd think the Prosecution would be the very ones to oppose bail. I give up trying to understand; I thought it would be full steam ahead after the SCA verdict.

 

[Marfa Lights]

I just can't see how he can be granted bail. He is a convicted murderer and his sentence is likely to be greater than what he has already served so he will be sent to jail, of that there is no doubt surely. So all bail achieves is to give him the opportunity to flee. I also don't understand that he is in legal limbo until a bail application. Surely he has to be in custody, even in the local watch house pending a bail application because again he is a convicted murderer who will go to jail and a flight risk.
The NPA would have been pretty certain that the conviction would be replaced with DE yet did not prepare for what was to happen with OP immediately after.
I just don't get it.

As to mitigation when he does get sentenced, what's he got left that hasn't been knocked well and truly over by the appeal judgement? I can only see his disability in terms of jail will be extra tough on him ( but he seems to have survived it so far) and his apparent remorse for killing Reeva. I say apparent as it is evident that his remorse is also for himself and how it's changed his future.

Maybe the State will not contest bail because it is a foregone conclusion that the magistrate will not grant bail anyway under these circumstances (i.e. newly convicted of murder).

 

[Interested Bystander]

Apropos yesterday's discussion around Lareno's comments. It does seem that many/most of OP's friends also think he murdered Reeva. Why else would they desert him?

 

[Marfa Lights]

I'd say, he is a flight risk
Italy has no extradition agreement, so he could go there,
he used to spend many months there training
but can't see him heading to Jail for minimum 5 years, not without a fight , and if he may lose that fight........... surely he'll flee the country

I believe Italy does have an extradition treaty with SA. And after further research online, it appears there is a fairly recent extradition treaty with Mozambique as well, at least for SA nationals who might flee justice in Mozambique.

Although I also came across another petition for SA to develop an extradition treaty for Mozambique nationals who come into SA and commit crimes (mostly poaching, I gather) and then return to safe harbor at home in Moz. So not sure why it would be a one-way treaty.

 

[L2L]

Maybe the State will not contest bail because it is a foregone conclusion that the magistrate will not grant it under these circumstances (i.e. newly convicted of murder).

I don't know how to multi-quote, but in post 587 it says it's understood the prosecution won't object to bail ( or words to that effect). That's already a given. But WHY wouldn't they object!