Oscar Pistorius - Discussion Thread #67 *Appeal Verdict*

[Deleted member 102539]

There is a constitutional requirement that the punishment imposed, must not be disproportionate to the offense. A number of aggravating factors relating to the crime may be considered. One such factor is the severity of the crime. What severity means, as would be the case with other factors, depends on the offense in question.

rsbm .............................

In the category of mitigating factors, factors such as

• age – now aged 29
• the fact that it is the offender’s first offense – found guilty of murder for the first time
• bad health – double amputee who otherwise enjoys good health
• gainful employment - unemployed ullhair:
He is well educated and his family owns ca. 150 companies around SA. Tomorrow he would have a job, I think.
• lack of planning – premeditation not proven but SCA found intent to kill
• remorse – he has never, IMO, shown any remorse whatsoever for murdering Reeva. He displayed a callous disregard for her family by not even contacting them to tell them their daughter was dead, nor did he ask his lawyer or siblings to do so on his behalf. He has never acknowledged what he did other than to say “It was a mistake”. For remorse to be a valid consideration, the penitence must be sincere and yet he did not take the court into his confidence. Unless that happened, the genuineness of the contrition alleged to exist has not been proven.
• a guilty plea - he pleaded not guilty
• a belief in religion – while professing to be a Christian, he only ever asked what his God could do for him. His actions and words are the antithesis of what you would expect from a supposedly good Christian.

A sentence must serve the public interest. This incorporates the traditional purposes of punishment (deterrence, rehabilitation, protection, and retribution) into the sentencing considerations.

For instance, aggravating factors may include that

• the offender is dangerous and a long period of incarceration will protect the community – the sheer recklessness of his behaviour on countless occasions prior to murdering Reeva coupled with the fact that he’s now a convicted murderer, has shown that he is a danger to the community.
• the offense is so prevalent that a greater-than-usual punishment is appropriate as a deterrent – the incidence of crime against women in SA is the highest in the world.

The public interest may also result in an aggravated sentence if the victim was defenceless - defenceless doesn't even come close to describing it.

http://www.loc.gov/law/help/sentencing-guidelines/southafrica.php#Introduction

rsbm (space)

 

[Interested Bystander]

.....does anyone think like me that the sentence could completely swing the other way and be extremely harsh .....

Somehow I don't think it will. I think there will be lenience for his disability and now that he is publicising being on the verge of a breakdown I think Masipa/whoever will take that into consideration. I am guessing 10 years with 5 years suspended minus 1 year served will probably bring it down to 4 years. Too short IMO but that is what I am expecting. However, I was very dubious about the result of the Appeal so I am probably totally wrong.

 

[Susza]

Typical of the media.. anything for effect.

Yes, that's what I thought, too. What's the intention? Attract attention & confuse the reader. I so often feel fooled by the media.

 

[LemonMousse]

It will be a travesty if he gets bail.

Maybe I'm wrong, but surely the onus shifts when you're considering the issue pre and post conviction.

Pre-conviction the individual is officially innocent - not guilty of any crime. So the prosecution have to prove compelling reasons for why the person should not get bail - flight risk, interfering with witnesses, danger to society etc.

But here we have a convicted murderer. Surely the presumption has to be that he belongs in custody and the defence have to prove compelling reasons for why he shouldn't be. He doesn't like the idea much is not a good enough reason.

 

[Tortoise]

Somehow I don't think it will. I think there will be lenience for his disability and now that he is publicising being on the verge of a breakdown I think Masipa/whoever will take that into consideration. I am guessing 10 years with 5 years suspended minus 1 year served will probably bring it down to 4 years. Too short IMO but that is what I am expecting. However, I was very dubious about the result of the Appeal so I am probably totally wrong.

what?!? he got 5 for CH. come on have a bit more faith than that, Nel would be at the SCA faster than lightening.

 

[LemonMousse]

I have a feeling that Masipa will either recuse herself or the Minister of Justice will appoint another judge.

It has to be of massive concern that her last involvement with the case prompted death threats and the need for an armed guard. Totally, totally unacceptable and a good enough reason for her to be allowed to wash her hands of the whole sorry mess, IMO.

 

[mrjitty]

I can see why the Defence Team don’t want a retrial.

A retrial would be a disaster for them - there is no way they can rerun their timeline scam now the prosecution knows the details of it.

 

[Colin de France]

I have a feeling that Masipa will either recuse herself or the Minister of Justice will appoint another judge.

It has to be of massive concern that her last involvement with the case prompted death threats and the need for an armed guard. Totally, totally unacceptable and a good enough reason for her to be allowed to wash her hands of the whole sorry mess, IMO.

....and so embarrassing.....enough to put another ten years on top .........

 

[Mystymiss]

Lenience for his disability? isn't Oscar the one who carried an almost dead adult woman down a flight of stairs no less?? In my eyes I just don't see him as disabled. Of course he doesn't want to be locked up but too bad so said. Killing some one the way he did, I do not feel sorry for him
at all. JMO

 

[cottonweaver]

I watched a youtube video analysis of his astrological chart yesterday. It was posted just after the "murder" in 2013 and ended by saying that imprisonment is aspected in his chart for the next 27 years of his life! Given that that was 2 years ago, he has 25 years left.

I don't think that sounds realistic, but here's hoping he will get at least 15 years for his arrogance, lies and lack of genuine remorse.

BIB Hi Tortoise,
I posted this earlier in the year as I thought it was amazingly accurate birth chart interpretation considering it was again just days after the murder. ( Incidentally How refreshing is it to say murder instead of killing! )
Appreciate astro is minority interest - but for anyone with experience/interest in birth chart analysis.....TBH it is nearly two decades since I was able to fully understand all the complexities of all the planetary factors myself, but I can see it's a very competent analysis.

http://www.exeterastrologygroup.org.uk/2013/02/oscar-pistorius_16.html

 

[cottonweaver]

I have a feeling that Masipa will either recuse herself or the Minister of Justice will appoint another judge.

It has to be of massive concern that her last involvement with the case prompted death threats and the need for an armed guard. Totally, totally unacceptable and a good enough reason for her to be allowed to wash her hands of the whole sorry mess, IMO.

Great point. This would give her a dignified excuse to recuse herself - very good idea - let's hope she uses this.

 

[Interested Bystander]

what?!? he got 5 for CH. come on have a bit more faith than that, Nel would be at the SCA faster than lightening.

LOL. I said I thought he would get 10 and then whoever is in the hot seat will find a way to reduce it somehow. It was a bit tongue-in-cheek but I think this guy seems to get off very lightly at every turn. Allowed out on bail even though on a murder charge, endless fracas that seemingly avoid the police taking any action. I think he should get the full 15 but I don't see it happening.

 

[cottonweaver]

A few snippets

http://city-press.news24.com/News/oscars-shrine-to-reeva-20151205
"Oscar’s shrine to Reeva" !!!:gaah:
Sonja Carstens 2015-12-06 published

"Scholtz told City Press’ sister paper, Rapport, this week that Pistorius would forever live with feelings of guilt.

“He realises this is a punishment he will carry with him for the rest of his life, and he feels he deserves this punishment.” So says Professor Jonathan Scholtz, head of clinical psychology at the Weskoppies Psychiatric Hospital....he lights candles while looking at her photos on the walls.

More delusional tweets, carl pasting the link to that earlier article published before the judgment.

@carlpistorius 22hours ago
"Best explanation to date and the reason I believe the SCA erred."
What is the essential in Dolus Eventualis?" | eNCA https://www.enca.com/opinion/oscar-pistorius-what-essential-missing-link’-dolus-eventualis …
https://twitter.com/carlpistorius

 

[Tortoise]

A few snippets

http://city-press.news24.com/News/oscars-shrine-to-reeva-20151205
"Oscar’s shrine to Reeva" !!!:gaah:
Sonja Carstens 2015-12-06 published

uke:

 

[Cherwell]

A few snippets

http://city-press.news24.com/News/oscars-shrine-to-reeva-20151205
"Oscar’s shrine to Reeva" !!!:gaah:
Sonja Carstens 2015-12-06 published

There's some good stuff in that article though, including this

"Now that the Supreme Court of Appeal has ruled that Pistorius is guilty of murder and not culpable homicide, he is looking at the very real possibility of having to go back to jail.
But Scholtz said Pistorius was psychologically much stronger than people thought he was, and would adapt again."

And

"On Friday, state prosecutor Gerrie Nel compiled a warrant for Pistorius’ arrest, but it had not yet been signed and issued by a judge.

When this is done, an arrangement will be made with Pistorius’ advocate, Barry Roux, for him to appear before Judge Thokozile Masipa again for sentencing.

National Prosecuting Authority (NPA) spokesperson Luvuyo Mfaku said on Friday they wanted the process to be concluded as soon as possible. “We are deliberating and facilitating a process where [Pistorius] appears in court soon for a date for the sentencing to be arranged.”

He said that during the NPA’s discussions on the matter, the issue of Pistorius applying for bail arose, but the decision would ultimately rest with the judge president.

“We can’t pre-empt the decision, but they will listen to the facts and make a determination on the matter. For us, we want it as a matter of extreme urgency,” said Mfaku."

 

[Tortoise]

BIB Hi Tortoise,
I posted this earlier in the year as I thought it was amazingly accurate birth chart interpretation considering it was again just days after the murder. ( Incidentally How refreshing is it to say murder instead of killing! )
Appreciate astro is minority interest - but for anyone with experience/interest in birth chart analysis.....TBH it is nearly two decades since I was able to fully understand all the complexities of all the planetary factors myself, but I can see it's a very competent analysis.

http://www.exeterastrologygroup.org.uk/2013/02/oscar-pistorius_16.html

Hi cotton,

I haven't ever studied it myself but I'd like to believe in it if it means 25 years for OP

 

[Mr Fossil]

Murder verdict revives Pistorius suicide fears
http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/world_news/Africa/article1642128.ece

Facing a long jail term for killing his girlfriend, ‘the Bladerunner’ is likely to retreat into despair, says John Carlin, who is close to the athlete’s family

I was with Pistorius at a party in the home of his lawyer, Barry Roux, on the night of September 11, 2014, hours after Judge Thokozile Masipa had made it evident in court that the verdict of manslaughter was what he could expect and that she would formally deliver her sentence the next day.

He would then be going straight to prison, but at that party Pistorius wore the calm, satisfied look of a man who felt he had been vindicated by the justice system and believed his honour had been saved. “I don’t give a **** about the sentence,” he told Roux. “I am not a murderer.”

Pistorius, who will feel that the justice system and God have failed him, may be extracting some crumbs of comfort from the knowledge that he will never now be found guilty by a court of law of deliberately killing the woman he has always said he loved.

 

[soozieqtips]

A few snippets

http://city-press.news24.com/News/oscars-shrine-to-reeva-20151205
"Oscar’s shrine to Reeva" !!!:gaah:
Sonja Carstens 2015-12-06 published



More delusional tweets, carl pasting the link to that earlier article published before the judgment.

@carlpistorius 22hours ago
"Best explanation to date and the reason I believe the SCA erred."
What is the essential in Dolus Eventualis?" | eNCA https://www.enca.com/opinion/oscar-pistorius-what-essential-missing-link’-dolus-eventualis …
https://twitter.com/carlpistorius

I think the last paragraph totally sums him up!

“His career is over. Where he was once the popular and famous athlete, he is now just another criminal in the system,” she said. – Rappor

 

[Tortoise]

Murder verdict revives Pistorius suicide fears
http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/world_news/Africa/article1642128.ece

Facing a long jail term for killing his girlfriend, ‘the Bladerunner’ is likely to retreat into despair, says John Carlin, who is close to the athlete’s family

I'm a bit shocked that Roux threw a party tbh. Hardly time for a celebration while Reeva's parents were devastated, I find it completely distasteful.

 

[Greater Than]

I am still catching up on the past several pages so everyone may have moved on from this, but I wanted to comment regarding the negative posts about Reeva and the comparison to the negative posts about OP.

All of the negative comments about OP directly relate to this case and the crimes he committed - he's privileged, he thinks he's above the law, he's a hothead, he's controlling, he's reckless, he's a liar. All of the negative comments about Reeva have absolutely NOTHING to do with this case unless one feels whatever skeletons she may have had in her closet and her "failed modeling career" warrant blowing her arm and head off with bullets powerful enough to stop an elephant in its tracks.

Reeva's alleged skeletons and career choice are irrelevant. She didn't deserve any of this. She didn't deserve to be ridiculed by OP for her accent or gum chewing. She didn't deserve to be humiliated and forced to leave her best friend's engagement party because of his jealousy and insecurities. She didn't deserve to be asked to compromise her integrity and not tell anyone the truth about the Tasha's incident after convincing his buddy to take the blame. She didn't deserve the fear she undoubtedly felt during the last moments of her life. She didn't deserve to be executed while trapped in the tiny toilet cubicle of a house she felt safe in by a man she trusted. And she certainly doesn't deserve to have people on a message board judging her and her career choice.