Oscar Pistorius - Discussion Thread #68 *Appeal Verdict*

[foxbluff]

Deleted cause stupid

Ohh, Susz, you said something stupid!?! I don't believe that for a minute, but please repost it or I'll spend the rest of the day wondering what you said! LOL

 

[LemonMousse]

IIRC Mrs Stipp said that both sets of bangs sounded the same wrt the loudness and the rapidity.

So on her evidence OP must have hit the door rapidly when you take into account the other ear witnesses.

I think this was a major uncertainty in Masipa's decision to reject ear witness testimony.

She said the loudness was the same, but the rapidity? I am not sure about that.

But if you're right, and the rapidity was the same, then this just indicates to me that neither sounds were bat strikes...or at least, not a man using a bat against a door

I also don't recall Masipa saying anything about this being the reason she rejected the ear witness testimony - which, incidentally, she did not "reject" at all.

 

[Val1]

IIRC Mrs Stipp said that both sets of bangs sounded the same wrt the loudness and the rapidity.

So on her evidence OP must have hit the door rapidly when you take into account the other ear witnesses.

I think this was a major uncertainty in Masipa's decision to reject ear witness testimony.

We could speculate a little further that perhaps OP had realized that the screaming and the banging from the bat might have been heard through the open window during those minutes between the two sets of "shots" that the Stipps had heard and during when all that was heard by M.Burger was a woman screaming and then a man clearly calling for help three times just before the four "shots" she had heard. So perhaps he closed the window after getting his gun and just before shooting to try and muffle any further sounds, then re-opened it while upstairs getting RS's ID for the paramedics when CS heard him walking on the tiled floor so it would fit with his intruder story.

https://juror13lw.wordpress.com/2014/05/08/oscar-trial-day-25-may-5-johan-and-carice-stander/

"Oscar then went upstairs alone. She remained downstairs with the paramedics. Just as he was out of her view, her Dad came inside and asked, where’s Oscar? She replied that he went upstairs and then immediately panicked because she recalled that Oscar had just told the paramedics that the gun was upstairs in the bathroom.

She immediately ran up and was too scared to go any further, so she stood there in the dark and shouted out “Oscar please, just bring the bag quickly.” She could hear him walking on the tile area. He then came back out with the bag and handed it to her."

 

[SapphireSteel]

Lol I cant believe this is still being debated.

The Fact is, OP got his big gun and emptied into *whoever* was cowering unarmed in the bathroom.

That is Murder where I come from.

 

[LemonMousse]

Lol I cant believe this is still being debated.

The Fact is, OP got his big gun and emptied into *whoever* was cowering unarmed in the bathroom.

That is Murder where I come from.

Exactly! And where I come from too.

 

[soozieqtips]

We could speculate a little further that perhaps OP had realized that the screaming and the banging from the bat might have been heard through the open window during those minutes between the two sets of "shots" that the Stipps had heard and during when all that was heard by M.Burger was a woman screaming and then a man clearly calling for help three times just before the four "shots" she had heard. So perhaps he closed the window after getting his gun and just before shooting to try and muffle any further sounds, then re-opened it while upstairs getting RS's ID for the paramedics when CS heard him walking on the tiled floor so it would fit with his intruder story.

https://juror13lw.wordpress.com/2014/05/08/oscar-trial-day-25-may-5-johan-and-carice-stander/

"Oscar then went upstairs alone. She remained downstairs with the paramedics. Just as he was out of her view, her Dad came inside and asked, where’s Oscar? She replied that he went upstairs and then immediately panicked because she recalled that Oscar had just told the paramedics that the gun was upstairs in the bathroom.

She immediately ran up and was too scared to go any further, so she stood there in the dark and shouted out “Oscar please, just bring the bag quickly.” She could hear him walking on the tile area. He then came back out with the bag and handed it to her."

BIB - isn't this the bag which OP said he went to fetch, and then added without prompting and for no particular reason, "I didn't go through it"?

 

[Val1]

BIB - isn't this the bag which OP said he went to fetch, and then added without prompting and for no particular reason, "I didn't go through it"?

Yes ma'am.

 

[Trotterly]

She said the loudness was the same, but the rapidity? I am not sure about that.

But if you're right, and the rapidity was the same, then this just indicates to me that neither sounds were bat strikes...or at least, not a man using a bat against a door

I also don't recall Masipa saying anything about this being the reason she rejected the ear witness testimony - which, incidentally, she did not "reject" at all.

About the two sets of bangs Mrs Stipp said:

"They sounded exactly the same with regard to the rapid succession and with regard to the loudness of the sound"

from 7.06 here: [video=youtube;FbYB_uFKE9I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbYB_uFKE9I"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbYB_uFKE9I[/video]

Your conclusion that Masipa did not reject ear witness testimony is at odds with her acceptance of the intruder version and what she says at several points in the judgement. Clearly as it was not spelled out in simple terms we cannot know every part of her reasoning process but to me it is obvious that parts of the ear witnesses testimony crucial to the states DD case must have been rejected.

 

[Trotterly]

We could speculate a little further that perhaps OP had realized that the screaming and the banging from the bat might have been heard through the open window during those minutes between the two sets of "shots" that the Stipps had heard and during when all that was heard by M.Burger was a woman screaming and then a man clearly calling for help three times just before the four "shots" she had heard. So perhaps he closed the window after getting his gun and just before shooting to try and muffle any further sounds, then re-opened it while upstairs getting RS's ID for the paramedics when CS heard him walking on the tiled floor so it would fit with his intruder story.

https://juror13lw.wordpress.com/2014/05/08/oscar-trial-day-25-may-5-johan-and-carice-stander/

"Oscar then went upstairs alone. She remained downstairs with the paramedics. Just as he was out of her view, her Dad came inside and asked, where’s Oscar? She replied that he went upstairs and then immediately panicked because she recalled that Oscar had just told the paramedics that the gun was upstairs in the bathroom.

She immediately ran up and was too scared to go any further, so she stood there in the dark and shouted out “Oscar please, just bring the bag quickly.” She could hear him walking on the tile area. He then came back out with the bag and handed it to her."

During CS's testimony I was never sure where she was meant to have heard OP on a tiled floor. Firstly she did not make it clear how far she ventured from the head of the stairs. Secondly the floor from the head of the stairs all the way to OP's bedroom door is all tiled so she could have heard him there.

IIRC he was wearing his socks so I find it hard to imagine that she could have heard him from the top of the stairs when he would have been right round the corner a few metres into his bedroom.

 

[foxbluff]

Lol I cant believe this is still being debated.The Fact is, OP got his big gun and emptied into *whoever* was cowering unarmed in the bathroom.That is Murder where I come from.

OMG... how I've missed My SapphSteel!!! One of my all time favorite posters who manages to cover multiple threads with ease...popping in and out leaving short, concise, "nail-on-the-head" posts and then disappears to that beautiful Land Under!!!!!Oh, my friends in the states ROFLOL when I use the expression I got from you::::::"They're like seagulls on a sick prawn."

 

[Val1]

During CS's testimony I was never sure where she was meant to have heard OP on a tiled floor. Firstly she did not make it clear how far she ventured from the head of the stairs. Secondly the floor from the head of the stairs all the way to OP's bedroom door is all tiled so she could have heard him there.

IIRC he was wearing his socks so I find it hard to imagine that she could have heard him from the top of the stairs when he would have been right round the corner a few metres into his bedroom.

Hmm, CS's "He then came back out" seems pretty clear to me that she meant that OP was somewhere inside the bedroom area and then came back out.

 

[Trotterly]

Hmm, CS's "He then came back out" seems pretty clear to me that she meant that OP was somewhere inside the bedroom area and then came back out.

I see that but it's not (like many things) completely clear.

 

[SapphireSteel]

OMG... how I've missed My SapphSteel!!! One of my all time favorite posters who manages to cover multiple threads with ease...popping in and out leaving short, concise, "nail-on-the-head" posts and then disappears to that beautiful Land Under!!!!!Oh, my friends in the states ROFLOL when I use the expression I got from you::::::"They're like seagulls on a sick prawn."

Lol

Hi Fox *advertiser censored*

missed you too

 

[SapphireSteel]

I see that but it's not (like many things) completely clear.

It's completely clear to me.

This little maggot emptied a (whatever) into a person behind a door

Reeva or not he knew exactly what he was doing - akin to something off a fekkn Rambo movie

Can you imagine shooting even an animal cornered like that? No hunter would...its not supposed to be about Wholesale Slaughter of a defenceless (whatever)

That's crossing every line there is.

 

[cottonweaver]

Monday's article about VAWomen-

"Mr. Pistorius, who went to an elite high school in Pretoria, has much in common with those privileged Hilton students. South African boys of their class seem raised to believe that they can get away with egregious acts of violent misogyny. Until recently, Mr. Pistorius appeared, like them, to have escaped censure.

Because he is such a singular figure — the double amputee who became an athletic phenomenon, competing for his post-apartheid country against able-bodied athletes in the 2012 Olympics — it has been easy to see Mr. Pistorius as an exceptional figure. But viewed in context, his violence toward his partner makes him seem not unique but entirely a product of his South African-ness."

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/15/opinion/south-africas-pistorius-problem.html?_r=0

(remember the summer posts about libellous comments, interested to see him take on the New YorkTimes)

 

[LemonMousse]

About the two sets of bangs Mrs Stipp said:

"They sounded exactly the same with regard to the rapid succession and with regard to the loudness of the sound"

from 7.06 here: [video=youtube;FbYB_uFKE9I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbYB_uFKE9I"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbYB_uFKE9I[/video]

Your conclusion that Masipa did not reject ear witness testimony is at odds with her acceptance of the intruder version and what she says at several points in the judgement. Clearly as it was not spelled out in simple terms we cannot know every part of her reasoning process but to me it is obvious that parts of the ear witnesses testimony crucial to the states DD case must have been rejected.

She didn't "accept" the intruder version, she just couldn't find reliable evidence that it wasn't true. She also said that he was evasive on the stand, a poor witness and his story had inherent implausibilities.

Having to give him the benefit of the doubt is not the same as "accepting" the story.

She also did not "reject" the ear witnesses...of course she didn't. Roux structured his entire timeline around them!!!!

Fine...so Mrs Stipp said that the loudness and the rapidity were the same. OK....so what?

Physics tells us that the rapid bangs described could not have been a cricket bat smacking against a door. That deepens the mystery, it does not answer it.

 

[DexterMorgan]

None of you understand. Jmo. Masipa was given money for her ruling and sentencing. Jmo.

Now since Masipa personally knew Winnie Mandela during the whole SA uproar. I doubt she cared about any party.

But since money talks. She decided to go with Oscar since uncle carl/ dueshbag has money to help his favorite nephew. Jmo.

 

[LemonMousse]

I see that but it's not (like many things) completely clear.

In fact, it's as clear as day.

I remain convinced that deep down you are aware that he's almost certainly guilty. You simply must be.

 

[LemonMousse]

None of you understand. Jmo. Masipa was given money for her ruling and sentencing. Jmo.

Now since Masipa personally knew Winnie Mandela during the whole SA uproar. I doubt she cared about any party.

But since money talks. She decided to go with Oscar since uncle carl/ dueshbag has money to help his favorite nephew. Jmo.

That's an exceptionally serious charge to level against anyone.

I may be a lone voice, but I don't believe Masipa was bought off. I think she succumbed to Pistorius' emotional manipulation. Some women are unnaccountably moved by snot and tears. I don't know why...I never have been.

 

[Marfa Lights]

Listening to the gap which is supposed to be too fast to wield the bat - I think that an athlete such as OP with immense upper body strength would have had no problem hitting the door that fast.

He may have powerful upper body strength, but not sure he could have suddenly turned into Bruce Lee.