Oscar Pistorius - Sentencing - 6.13.2016 #2

[Trotterly]

That's right. So there was no 'expert' testimony that OP found it difficult to walk on that type of surface, just the testimony from someone who was 'evasive', 'unreliable' and 'dishonest'.

Not so. He testified as to how OP dealt with the carpet in his office.

 

[Val1]

Dr Versfeld has been treating him since amputating his feet and ankles when Pistorius was a toddler. He would be the most qualified expert to give an idea of Pistorius's stability (or lack thereof ) on stumps, having been dealing with Pistorius and his stump-aftercare for decades.

BBM - Not necessarily the most objective though, especially if he relied on a report written by OP rather than his own clinical observations/notes.

https://www.enca.com/oscar-trial-pistorius-was-completely-sane-when-he-shot-reeva
"The first witness called this morning was Dr Gerald Versfeld, the orthopaedic surgeon who has treated Pistorius since he was a baby and continues to be his doctor.

Reading out a description of Pistorius’s condition, written by the Paralympian, Versfeld said Pistorius battled to put weight on his stumps, struggled to balance when not wearing his prosthetic legs and needed his arms to balance."

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-murder-trial-recap-3787149
"Aislinn Laing - This will be fascinating evidence. Dr Versfeld first met 27yo Pistorius when he was an infant, and has been close to the family ever since."

9:32 am
"Gerrie Nel on the cross-examination now.
He says he was brought in as a witness after Pistorius had given evidence.
Nel asks Dr Versfeld if he followed Pistorius' evidence in court.
He says he didn't follow it closely but he had a good idea of his version of events."

9:50 am
"Gerrie Nel illustrating that by Pistorius' own evidence, after shooting he was able to turn and walk out of the bathroom, moves fans and look behind curtains.
Roux not happy about this and tries to jump in and disrupt with an objection."

 

[krkrjx]

Imo. Atleast there was some doubt that OJ Simpson murdered Nicole and Ron.

But to have your girlfriend trapped in the bathroom while yelling at her before firing 4 shots while she is crying and scared is just beyond any sympathetic reasoning. Jmo.

Yes, it is difficult to fathom OP was confused as to who was in the bathroom, fearing an intruder when any thinking mind can see that he knew what he intended to do and to whom he intended to do it. Anyone trying to convince the world that Reeva's murder no more than a tragic misunderstanding is, imo, pathetic.

As to OJ, there is and never was doubt about his intentional killing of Ron and Nicole but certainly all crimes in the news have those who will sympathize with the perpertrator...some cried that Casey Anthony was innocent, also Jodi Arias, even in the face of plenty of evidence of their guilt.

What I'm getting at is some people cannot see the forest for the trees and no amount of convincing is going to work on a person who is infatuated with a killer for whatever reason--even those who can admit the subject of their adoration has killed will go above and beyond all reason to justify the act. Intelligence is not even a factor, as some who support killers appear to possess above or well above average intelligence.

Bottom line is, if one does not have Common Sense, all the IQ points in the world are not going to save them. In that vein, I am seriously concerned about how many jurists have the IQ without the CS. Judges take an oath to be fair and impartial but they are not required to have common sense and all too often we see one kowtow to a defendant with a well-constructed sob story. Just look at the deplorable behavior of the ex-swimmer rapist and all the kowtowing the judge in that case did! And we must never forget the "affluenza" judge.

Masipa and jurists of her ilk truly scare me.

smh

 

[soozieqtips]

9:50 am
"Gerrie Nel illustrating that by Pistorius' own evidence, after shooting he was able to turn and walk out of the bathroom, moves fans and look behind curtains.
Roux not happy about this and tries to jump in and disrupt with an objection."

snipped

BIB - and no mention at all from OP at that point of how he hobbled, stumbled, fell, bumped into things as he was 'looking' for Reeva under the bed, behind the curtains, behind the fan, under a plate... how did he manage to do all that if he needed all that assistance in court?

 

[aftermath]

BBM - Not necessarily the most objective though, especially if he relied on a report written by OP rather than his own clinical observations/notes.

https://www.enca.com/oscar-trial-pistorius-was-completely-sane-when-he-shot-reeva
"The first witness called this morning was Dr Gerald Versfeld, the orthopaedic surgeon who has treated Pistorius since he was a baby and continues to be his doctor.

Reading out a description of Pistorius’s condition, written by the Paralympian, Versfeld said Pistorius battled to put weight on his stumps, struggled to balance when not wearing his prosthetic legs and needed his arms to balance."

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-murder-trial-recap-3787149
"Aislinn Laing - This will be fascinating evidence. Dr Versfeld first met 27yo Pistorius when he was an infant, and has been close to the family ever since."

9:32 am
"Gerrie Nel on the cross-examination now.
He says he was brought in as a witness after Pistorius had given evidence.
Nel asks Dr Versfeld if he followed Pistorius' evidence in court.
He says he didn't follow it closely but he had a good idea of his version of events."

9:50 am
"Gerrie Nel illustrating that by Pistorius' own evidence, after shooting he was able to turn and walk out of the bathroom, moves fans and look behind curtains.
Roux not happy about this and tries to jump in and disrupt with an objection."

I doubt whether the Dr's professional opinion as a surgeon is based solely on information written down and passed over by Pistorius after his own testimony. Versfeld routinely checks the condition of Pistorius's stumps- he knows the significance of the movement of the heel pad, or the impact of damaged nerve endings on the ability to balance. If Pistorius was suddenly telling Versfeld new stuff after his testimony, then it would be a Dr with no professional integrity who would accept that without ascertaining its truth. IMO

Defence has been roundly condemned in these sentencing threads for not calling Pistorius's own doctor instead of /in addition to Scholtz, but when they did call a doctor during the main trial who had known him since he first became an amputee, he is called impartial and not neutral enough. It looks like a lose lose scenario.

 

[Jake18]

snipped

BIB - and no mention at all from OP at that point of how he hobbled, stumbled, fell, bumped into things as he was 'looking' for Reeva under the bed, behind the curtains, behind the fan, under a plate... how did he manage to do all that if he needed all that assistance in court?

And - going back to basics - he bought a house with stairs, tiles and didn't modify it in any way.

 

[Viper]

The demonstration in court was not under the same conditions as the video connected with Evidence Room.

In the Evidence Room video OP was running on thick carpet and a thick rug had been put down over the hard flooring. The court flooring was carpet tile. There was expert testimony during the trial that OP found it difficult to walk on this sort of surface.

Just curious, how would you know anything about the carpeting in the courtroom?

 

[aftermath]

And - going back to basics - he bought a house with stairs, tiles and didn't modify it in any way.

He moved around the house on his prosthetics so didn't need to. He said he could/would go on his stumps to the bathroom to go to the toilet in the night if he needed to, but that this was pretty much all he would /could do on his stumps.

 

[Viper]

snipped

BIB - and no mention at all from OP at that point of how he hobbled, stumbled, fell, bumped into things as he was 'looking' for Reeva under the bed, behind the curtains, behind the fan, under a plate... how did he manage to do all that if he needed all that assistance in court?

According to Oscar he was a freakin' Ninja, ninjaing his way down the hall to kill the intruder! LOL! Quite a difference from the show he did in court! So sick of this, no doubt Masipa is too; no way she gives him less than 15 years, she's done with this BS.

 

[seattlechiquita]

According to Oscar he was a freakin' Ninja, ninjaing his way down the hall to kill the intruder! LOL! Quite a difference from the show he did in court! So sick of this, no doubt Masipa is too; no way she gives him less than 15 years, she's done with this BS.

You think? I personally am not convinced she is. She did, after all, effed up the first time around.

 

[Viper]

You think? I personally am not convinced she is. She did, after all, effed up the first time around.

I believe she is. Tremendous uproar after her previous verdict and sentence, a security detail was assigned to protect her.

It is a rare judge that has not had a verdict overturned, but this is a very high profile case and I'm sure she wants out from under it. If not, fine, give him probation and watch the State appeal and then the SCA thrown 15-25 at him without blinking an eye.

 

[soozieqtips]

You think? I personally am not convinced she is. She did, after all, effed up the first time around.

That might be why she'll do the right thing this time and send the murderer away for a long stretch. She won't want any more of her decisions criticised (hopefully.) And she'd have to be deaf, dumb and blind not to see how she's been played.

 

[Viper]

He moved around the house on his prosthetics so didn't need to. He said he could/would go on his stumps to the bathroom to go to the toilet in the night if he needed to, but that this was pretty much all he would /could do on his stumps.

Nah baby nah! Osca had that house custom built to be handicap accessible, including the double doors to his bedroom to fit his wheelchair! Of course Osca has never used a wheelchair but it sounded like a good story for the Court! Forget that Osca forgot to include an elevator in his custom wheelchair accessible TWO STORY home!

 

[BeachSky]

the consequence of the deceased is she lost her most valuable asset.. she can not walk in to this court
I think that's what Nel said. Simple. Canceled out all the stumbling,leaning,cry me a river-ing OP did. JMO

 

[Val1]

That might be why she'll do the right thing this time and send the murderer away for a long stretch. She won't want any more of her decisions criticised (hopefully.) And she'd have to be deaf, dumb and blind not to see how she's been played.

Apparently she doesn't think she was played... or was viewed in a negative light because of her faulty ruling.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/14/oscar-pistorius-trial-thokozile-masipa-judge

"Masipa rejected the premise that she had a negative image. “I do not think the criticism was about me at all,” she replied. “It was about the outcome. Because people were expecting a different outcome, they were just expressing frustration. I don’t think I’m stigmatised … perhaps I am too naive about that."

 

[Greater Than]

The prison guards aren't going to take away his prosthesis, so I really don't understand the relevance of that parade he put on in front of Masipa.

He takes his legs off to sleep and bathe. That's what he did at his own house, that's what he's dong at Uncle Arnold's, and that's what he will do again when he retuns prison.

He managed to fire four bullets through a closed door with precision while standing on a tile surface on his stumps. He can manage prison to pay for that crime.

 

[mrjitty]

The prison guards aren't going to take away his prosthesis, so I really don't understand the relevance of that parade he put on in front of Masipa.

He takes his legs off to sleep and bathe. That's what he did at his own house, that's what he's dong at Uncle Arnold's, and that's what he will do again when he retuns prison.

He managed to fire four bullets through a closed door with precision while standing on a tile surface on his stumps. He can manage prison to pay for that crime.

I guess the purpose was to demonstrate vulnerability at the time he fired the gun.

IMO this evidence should not have been allowed as Oscar was not called as a witness

 

[lithgow1]

I guess the purpose was to demonstrate vulnerability at the time he fired the gun.

IMO this evidence should not have been allowed as Oscar was not called as a witness

Do you (or Greater Than) have any thoughts as to why Nel did not highlight the difference between his mobility in his courtroom performance and the many actions, from bringing in the fans onwards, that Pistorius supposedly performed while on his stumps on the night of the murder? IMO it would have been an effective comparison to make. Just an oversight or was there some reasoning behind it? You would think by now he would know that it can't necessarily be left to the judge to make these comparisons for herself.

 

[mrjitty]

Do you (or Greater Than) have any thoughts as to why Nel did not highlight the difference between his mobility in his courtroom performance and the many actions, from bringing in the fans onwards, that Pistorius supposedly performed while on his stumps on the night of the murder? IMO it would have been an effective comparison to make. Just an oversight or was there some reasoning behind it? You would think by now he would know that it can't necessarily be left to the judge to make these comparisons for herself.

The Prosecutor has to use some judgement in these matters.

First up he doesn't want to get into speculation and second he probably felt it best to let the absurdity speak for itself.

In the end, if the Judge falls for that, I don't see how Nel commenting on it would make any difference

 

[DexterMorgan]

The Prosecutor has to use some judgement in these matters.

First up he doesn't want to get into speculation and second he probably felt it best to let the absurdity speak for itself.

In the end, if the Judge falls for that, I don't see how Nel commenting on it would make any difference

Nel could have at least played the youtube video of Oscar being very quick and agile on his stumps.

Since he knows Masippa wants to be very lenient with Oscar. Jmo.

Even if she had made a mistake in the first trial in regards to the law. She still only sentenced him to 1 year jail time for the most part. Because she knew the 5yrs would only be 1yr in jail . Jmo.

So she really didn't feel that he honestly did anything wrong that warranted a long sentence Iregardless of how she interpretated things. Jmo