Identified! PA - Berks Co., 2 WhtFems, photos in hangar, 1968-69 - Martha & Sandra Stiver

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2) What bikers gangs from Pennsylvania have links with gangs in Montreal? This has probably been documented somewhere.

It has. Montreal is the well-known hub of various mob branches in Canada as well as a major port of entry for illegal drugs destined to the US as well as Canada. This is due to the city's history, location near the border with NY state, the presence of two major international airports and the largest year-round deep-sea port on the Great Lakes/St-Lawrence shipping lane.

Montreal's large Italian community -one of the largest in North America- partly explains the presence of well-established Mafia families but the city's assets mentioned above also make it a natural magnet for organized crime of various nature including large local chapters of notorious biker gangs such as the Hell's Angels and Bandidos. In fact I read that the presence of these biker gangs was responsible for the city having the highest murder rate in Canada for decades. It has subsided somewhat in recent years thanks in large part to... the Mafia and other "traditonal" mobsters who did not appreciate all the LE attention -including DEA and FBI- brought on by the bikers and pressured them into cooling it off or be forced out. Bikers mostly live off dealing drugs for less conspicuous mobsters and could not afford to PO their suppliers.

The 1980's and 90's saw a biker war between Hell's Angels and Bandidos in Montreal and elsewhere in Quebec which resulted in their old-style (ie overtly violent) leaders being killed off or jailed and replaced with more sophisticated individuals. Sonny Barger, the world leader/founder of the Hell's Angels was often seen in Quebec in those days -he was even arrested in Quebec City and briefly detained there- which is an indication that A)the situation was seriously out of control and B) the Quebec chapters of the HA's are considered essential enough to require the attention of the "CEO" on a regular basis. This hints at criminal activities ranging far beyond the city of Montreal and the province of Quebec. It is likely that due to the large size of the Quebec chapters of the HA's some Montreal-based bikers may have control over certain US-based gangs in smaller cities located in the Northeast.

So yes, I'd say that in fact any biker gang from Pennsylvania can possibly have ties to Montreal. But that said, a link to Montreal based solely on an Expo 67 passport is a tenuous possibility at best.
 
Done some further digging on the matter and found that the Montreal chapter of the Hell's Angels is the oldest on the east coast. Unlike what they do with overseas chapters, HA's do not make any distinction between the US and Canada which they consider the same "region" and thus the usual chapter seniority rules would apply regardless of the border. This means that there would definitely be ties between the Montreal chapter and just about any other chapter east of the Mississippi. But then again any link based on the presence of an extremely common item at a crime scene (an Expo 67 passport) would be tenuous at best.
 
Old murders, new mystery
Official says two women killed in the 1960s might be ID'd if he finds where the county buried them.


To have a chance at solving two 1968 murder mysteries, Berks County Coroner Dennis J. Hess first has to solve another mystery.

If he can exhume the bodies from the county's potter's field, he's betting that DNA technology available now will help identify the two women.

Not only would that provide closure to the families, it might help state police to solve the murders.

But, first, Hess has to figure out where the graves are on the former poorhouse property in Cumru Township.

<snip>

http://readingeagle.com/article.aspx?id=449667


When this gets figured out, I'm hoping there is finally some closure for these girls.
 
I was just looking for this thread so that I could post this article. I remember reading about this case awhile ago; when I saw the article tonight I was hopeful that they might be able to locate the grave and solve these murders.
 
I was just looking for this thread so that I could post this article. I remember reading about this case awhile ago; when I saw the article tonight I was hopeful that they might be able to locate the grave and solve these murders.

Are you local to the area?
 
Locating each separate grave in the cemetery would be fairly easy, even if the graves are unmarked.

Usually a potter's field type of cemetery has graves which are placed in a sort of chronological order. That is, the most recent grave being placed alongside the one just previous. This would mean that if some sort of listing of graves exists, then it might be possible to locate the graves in question.

Not all burials would be unknowns. For instance, if a known person with no money or relatives were to die, he or she might be buried in a potter's field. Someone might know where a particular person is buried and what date he was buried. From there, it might be possible to estimate which graves contain the unknown women.

Also, knowing certain information such as heights of persons buried might help in locating the graves. If a man over 6 feet tall had been buried there prior to the burial of these two women, and a small child was buried after them, then one might be able to narrow down the possibilities.
 
Does anyone have any idea why they are so convinced that the photos are so relevant to these two dead girls??? I hate to see so much focus on the photos if that is a wild goose chase!!
 
Does anyone have any idea why they are so convinced that the photos are so relevant to these two dead girls??? I hate to see so much focus on the photos if that is a wild goose chase!!

According to an article in the Daily Courier, 12-02-1970 (when the pics of the girls was released), police showed the photos to a shoe clerk who identified them as being girls he sold identical size 8 sandals.
 
Locating each separate grave in the cemetery would be fairly easy, even if the graves are unmarked.

Usually a potter's field type of cemetery has graves which are placed in a sort of chronological order. That is, the most recent grave being placed alongside the one just previous. This would mean that if some sort of listing of graves exists, then it might be possible to locate the graves in question.

Not all burials would be unknowns. For instance, if a known person with no money or relatives were to die, he or she might be buried in a potter's field. Someone might know where a particular person is buried and what date he was buried. From there, it might be possible to estimate which graves contain the unknown women.

Also, knowing certain information such as heights of persons buried might help in locating the graves. If a man over 6 feet tall had been buried there prior to the burial of these two women, and a small child was buried after them, then one might be able to narrow down the possibilities.

It's definitely easy to see where the graves are in the field, the ground is sort of sunken in in intervals (if that makes sense) where a grave is. The problem is, no one knows where they began digging and finished with the last person. Also, it's quite a large field, and honestly I don't know if they went in any sort of order. I've known for about 6-7 years now that no one had any idea where anyone was buried and I'm not surprised by this most recent article. I just hope they figure it out.

ETA: I think the whole point of this article was to see if anyone knew who was in a particular grave so they had some sort of starting point.
 
Yes, I live in Berks County. Are you from the area too?

Yes, I grew up in Muhlenberg and after I got married I lived in Shillington and Denver (in Lancaster County). I moved to Baltimore a year ago because my husband got a job down here. I still get to Reading often since both mine and my husband's families are still there.
 
It seems to me that the caskets and burial vaults would be easy to detect with ground-penetrating radar.
 
It seems to me that the caskets and burial vaults would be easy to detect with ground-penetrating radar.

It would be, but I think the problem is that the coroner needs to be sure who he's digging up before he can dig anywhere. Since the plot map doesn't make a lot of sense, he can't exhume anyone until he's sure he has the right persons.
 
It would be, but I think the problem is that the coroner needs to be sure who he's digging up before he can dig anywhere. Since the plot map doesn't make a lot of sense, he can't exhume anyone until he's sure he has the right persons.

What I understood them to mean was that the plot map didn't make a lot of sense with respect to landmarks above ground. Perhaps if, using GPR, they could plot out the layout of the coffins, then they might be able to reconcile it to the plot map.
 
What I understood them to mean was that the plot map didn't make a lot of sense with respect to landmarks above ground. Perhaps if, using GPR, they could plot out the layout of the coffins, then they might be able to reconcile it to the plot map.

True, although I'm not sure how fast something like that will happen lol.
 
Yes, I grew up in Muhlenberg and after I got married I lived in Shillington and Denver (in Lancaster County). I moved to Baltimore a year ago because my husband got a job down here. I still get to Reading often since both mine and my husband's families are still there.

I live in Muhlenberg, what a small world.
 
I live in Muhlenberg, what a small world.

Haha that's crazy. I miss it, the traffic there certainly isn't what it is in Baltimore...but I'm glad to not be working in the city anymore it's getting a little scary in there.
 

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