PA PA - Kortne Ciera Stouffer, 21, Palmyra, 29 July 2012 - #1

[JurysOut]

I have a new theory along those lines. I'm starting to think she never left the building. I wish we knew if the neighbor is fully cooperating with police. Maybe the police are watching and waiting.

I was lurking there for hours yesterday and last night. I'm not a very slick sleuth in real life.

 

[PBJ2585]

JurysOut,

When you were exploring, did you run into any cops?

 

[Chanler]

At this stage, dots don't seem to connect. What seems to me indisputable is that Kortne was an attractive young woman who had been out partying and probably at that very late hour and in that condition was probably much more vulnerable than at other times.

Unfortunately, at this stage of her disappearance, it seems highly unlikely that she is alive.

 

[cw028]

You know, way back in the beginning of the thread, I thought for sure it was two different neighbors - one in the argument and a second one with the noise complaint.

You're right-if it's just the one neighbor (I don't know which neighbor or how many live in the complaining unit) it wouldn't be odd for the complainant to confront KS as s/he had an hour before. Possibly more irritated an hour later.

Good point.

Have they searched the ENTIRE building, I wonder.

I believe there was an argument between the downstairs neighbor and KS. Another neighbor called police. Then the downstairs neighbor heard the noises above and called police. 2 different neighbors called...but the downstairs neighbor was involved in both. That's where we came up with the theory that she was stomping because she was still pissed at the downstairs neighbor.

 

[JurysOut]

But why aren't the police doing press conferences or making statements? Locals, are you guys surprised by this? It seems like the family has to do that or there would be nothing!

I'm not surprised, but maybe that's because I just spent almost three months hanging around the Mickey Shunick threads. LE was exasperatingly tight lipped in that case. Like, nothing. Nada.

Then one day, seemingly out of the blue - ARREST!

The lack of info must also be driving the perp crazy. SS said he spent two hours with the DA today, so I hope the family knows what LE's doing.

It breaks my heart when a mother says something like 'I worry about if she's eating'.

 

[JurysOut]

I believe there was an argument between the downstairs neighbor and KS. Another neighbor called police. Then the downstairs neighbor heard the noises above and called police. 2 different neighbors called...but the downstairs neighbor was involved in both. That's where we came up with the theory that she was stomping because she was still pissed at the downstairs neighbor.

This is really helpful, thanks. That's been tough to nail down.

So, why didn't this same neighbor not call about the dog(s) alone in the apartment for 24 hours? (<-rhetorical)

Maybe it's a quiet dog. I keep thinking about that noise a dog's claws make on a glass door when they want to go out, or see a squirrel in the tree or something. It can be loud.

Maybe KS has a gate and keeps the dog in a room away from the door.

 

[scorekeeper]

I believe there was an argument between the downstairs neighbor and KS. Another neighbor called police. Then the downstairs neighbor heard the noises above and called police. 2 different neighbors called...but the downstairs neighbor was involved in both. That's where we came up with the theory that she was stomping because she was still pissed at the downstairs neighbor.

Thanks so much, cw! So there are 3 apartments in the house?

Can you tell me if the neighbors are married, single, young, elderly, male, female?

Glad to have the locals!! You too, jury!!

 

[PBJ2585]

This is really helpful, thanks. That's been tough to nail down.

So, why didn't this same neighbor not call about the dog(s) alone in the apartment for 24 hours? (<-rhetorical)

Maybe it's a quiet dog. I keep thinking about that noise a dog's claws make on a glass door when they want to go out, or see a squirrel in the tree or something. It can be loud.

Maybe KS has a gate and keeps the dog in a room away from the door.

I do remember reading several times that when the mom came over on Monday, the dog came right to the door..if that was reported correctly.

 

[Patty G]

BBM, we can sleuth other people as long as we don't post about it, right?

You can do what you wish on your own, however, you can't post it here. Many of us do our own sleuthing of individuals for years and years, but never share the information on the threads; nor hint about what was found. :crazy:

 

[PBJ2585]

I'm not surprised, but maybe that's because I just spent almost three months hanging around the Mickey Shunick threads. LE was exasperatingly tight lipped in that case. Like, nothing. Nada.

Then one day, seemingly out of the blue - ARREST!

The lack of info must also be driving the perp crazy. SS said he spent two hours with the DA today, so I hope the family knows what LE's doing.

It breaks my heart when a mother says something like 'I worry about if she's eating'.

Hopefully it is a good sign that they are closing in on a perp.

 

[Meri]

If someone has mentioned this already, then I apologize. I can't believe no one would mention it already, but it seems to me the first disturbance call was a legit call about her and her friend making too much noise. The second call, though, the thumping and banging? I think that was her getting abducted, or attacked, which then turned into an abduction for reasons unknown. Which I guess would mean her friend pretty much had to be involved. I think she was under attack and fighting back. Odd how it all just stopped and was quiet after that.

 

[sreshowtime]

I have posted the info before on here, but you can look it up too on zillow... has info about the 810 and 808 w main st addresses
and according to property tax records, 810 is a duplex and 808 single family

 

[Meems]

Weird thing happened Saturday night .. was sitting at a local estab watching UFC fight and was having a chat with a bar tender from the "hood" .. Kortnes pic came on the local news on one of the TVs and she laughed and said .. "She was supposidly spotted on Third Street not too long ago" .. I said "WHAT??" NO WAY ... Then .. I read on a friend of Kortne and I's FB page, on a photo of Kortne that she (the poster) saw Kortne at HMAC (third street) 2 days before she went missing.

I thought the first conversation was weird .. but coupled with the second thing I accidentally stumbled on (the post on FB) .. hhhuuummmm ... I have been up and down third street .. several times, at different times of the day throughout Sunday and Today and nothing ... There are flyers up in the area .. surely IF someone had truly spotted her .. they would have cashed in on the reward by now .. it's NOT a "wealthy" area ... BUT ... I will continue to drive/walk that section of the Burg from now on several times a week and ask questions. Gives me a wee bit of hope .. in a seemingly hopeless situation.

 

[JurysOut]

JurysOut,

When you were exploring, did you run into any cops?

Not that I saw. I'm betting they saw me, though. Bleh.

I saw a young-ish Caucasian couple circle the block on foot. I can't remember if they were holding hands. I don't think they were - and they walked up the alley, not on Cherry. East on Main, South on Windsor (Windsor?) & west up the alley. They seemed to be talking quietly. Both wore long jeans and nondescript woven shirts that weren't tucked in. Nondescript as in no patterns or logos. The woman had very dark, shiny straight hair, blunt cut, shorter than chin length. The man had sandy hair and his shirt sleeves were rolled up. They were not wearing sunglasses and were not at all tan. I didn't see where they came from. I know they looked directly at me. I was in my car across the street at the time. So we watched them right back. (I'm an idiot)

There was a black couple walking east on the opposite side of the street. Woman's hair was in an up do, bag over her left arm, appeared to be annoyed with her companion. I believe she was wearing a dark teal top. Her companion was heavy set and wore a yellowish plaid untucked shirt. I have no idea if she was actually b&#161;t&#162;hing at him or not.

There appeared to be more cars than one would think had business in that alley on a Sunday afternoon. One Volvo, maybe three light trucks, an older dark American sedan - by older, I mean mid to late 90s - miscellaneous vague year Hondas & Toyotas. 4, maybe. I don't recall seeing a motorcycle. I didn't see what if anything was in the garages.

No animals that made themselves known.

On the Hershey side of the township line, some neighbors were out chatting on the sidewalk a house or two back from Main. They could clearly see the Intersection and a lot of the block. There were four of them, semi- facing Main. Two men, two women. One of the men had white hair, khaki shorts, an untucked light plaid short sleeved shirt. He had both hands in his pockets as though he was rattling keys or coins. I remember that because coin rattling drives me nuts.

NAPA appeared to be deserted, a single truck parked out front, two more on Windsor.

Further south on Windsor, next to the Fish Water people, before Cherry, a man was filling up a blue plastic wading pool in the driveway for a little boy. Or maybe he was hosing it out. It wasn't on the ground.

Any of those people could have been LE or the PI the family hired. Probably not the little boy.

Maybe they were all snoopy citizens, like me. I don't know how much alley strolling and sidewalk chatting goes on on a typical Sunday afternoon. Further down Windsor and then cruising around the rest of Palmyra, I saw maybe 10 people out walking, some kids on bikes.

So I guess that's a dense paired couple pedestrian population on that single block.

I did not follow any of these people to see where they ended up. I have no idea if any of them followed me.

 

[JurysOut]

Weird thing happened Saturday night .. was sitting at a local estab watching UFC fight and was having a chat with a bar tender from the "hood" .. Kortnes pic came on the local news on one of the TVs and she laughed and said .. "She was supposidly spotted on Third Street not too long ago" .. I said "WHAT??" NO WAY ... Then .. I read on a friend of Kortne and I's FB page, on a photo of Kortne that she (the poster) saw Kortne at HMAC (third street) 2 days before she went missing.

I thought the first conversation was weird .. but coupled with the second thing I accidentally stumbled on (the post on FB) .. hhhuuummmm ... I have been up and down third street .. several times, at different times of the day throughout Sunday and Today and nothing ... There are flyers up in the area .. surely IF someone had truly spotted her .. they would have cashed in on the reward by now .. it's NOT a "wealthy" area ... BUT ... I will continue to drive/walk that section of the Burg from now on several times a week and ask questions. Gives me a wee bit of hope .. in a seemingly hopeless situation.

In midtown? I was wondering why the Hardware Bar. If she's familiar with HBG, that would make sense.

OT- do you go to Midtown Cinema? I'M NOT SLEUTHING YOU. Srsly. I'm not.

 

[sreshowtime]

DO any of the locals know if roofies, or GHB for that matter, are 'popular' amongst the club crowd there in Harrisburg?

 

[JurysOut]

I have posted the info before on here, but you can look it up too on zillow... has info about the 810 and 808 w main st addresses
and according to property tax records, 810 is a duplex and 808 single family

I wish I'd written down a site I stumbled across today. It's a neighborhood list. Like on Zillow or Trulia, but all of the little read houses are numbered and there's a corresponding list of occupants in the left panel.

I think I typed 'Who lives at 810 west main street palmyra pa' in google's wonderbar.

The site has the word 'neighbor' in it. It seems kinda creepy now that I think of it. I should have looked up my own address.

It's in my browser history at the office.

 

[scorekeeper]

Arnold acknowledged that there are many theories floating around and said he does not rule out any of them.

"Even ones that on the surface seem a little odd - we don't discount them," he said. "We go through every single piece of information, every single theory, to see if we can take it somewhere. We really don't overlook anything that comes in online or anywhere else."

http://www.ldnews.com/ci_21301981/stouffer-disappearance-investigated-possible-kidnapping

 

[Meems]

In midtown? I was wondering why the Hardware Bar. If she's familiar with HBG, that would make sense.

OT- do you go to Midtown Cinema? I'M NOT SLEUTHING YOU. Srsly. I'm not.

At 21 .. The Hardware Bar is the place to be (Downtown)... also it depends on what band was there that night .. Hardware Bar has 3 levels with totally different atmospheres so its like 3 clubs for one cover. Soooo many different personalities there .. Downstairs is usually a band, Mid level is the "mellow" level and third floor is the more "techno" type level .. the place is usually PACKED on Friday and Saturdays .. LOT'S of bars that cater towards the younger crowd on Second Street so people usually check out a few other places first .. then end up at the Hardware Bar till close. Still after close, people usally mill around on the street for awhile or grab some pizza on Second Street and hang out (usually to watch cops break up a fight or two) .. Closest "Club Scene" to Palmyra. Hershey has a few bars but not "club type" ..

She was "allegedly" seen near the Midtown Arts Center (2 days prior to her being missing) which is uptown a bit from Second St on Third by Broad St Market. Which is in close prox to where the bar tender I was speaking to works .. (where locals allegedly spotted her after she was reported missing) .. I still tend to believe it is local hype after some have seen her flyers. The local buzz is all about getting the reward .. heck .. I wouldn't even claim the reward .. I just want her parents to have her back.

Have never been to Midtown Cinema

 

[Meems]

DO any of the locals know if roofies, or GHB for that matter, are 'popular' amongst the club crowd there in Harrisburg?

Really downtown, you most likely can get just about anything .. I'm not in the club scene anymore, but can't remember ever hearing about of knowing anyone that was into that stuff. But I'm sure its there if ya want it.

Hbg is mostly known for pot and prescription drug problems along with herion with the locals.