PA PA - Kortne Ciera Stouffer, 21, Palmyra, 29 July 2012 - #2

[fringles]

About facebook - I did find a post, from someone who I don't think is in any way involved directly, but who seems genuinely concerned about Kortne and her family. They have a couple of pretty interesting posts around July 29-31. I can't be sure that they're even in reference to this, but if they are, the person is expressing a really bad feeling about that night - there's anger, and a reference to a nameless single person they're angry with. FWIW this person also appears to be 'friends' with MR, but not CP.

 

[cluciano63]

The silence from her boyfriend and friends is really bothering me for some reason... is no one missing her except for her family? What is going on? Coupled with the dead silence from law enforcement, this is becoming one baffling case already. I am hoping they are awaiting lab results on something or other, although we have not heard anything about any sort of evidence of a disturbance in the apartment.

Did they take Kortne's car, and if so, do they still have it, do we know?

 

[PalmyraDad]

I too am bothered by what seems like borderline apathy from many people. As for her car, it was impounded but I haven't heard any reporting about it being released yet. Things are just way too quiet.

 

[JurysOut]

I am puzzled by the second call to police. If the caller was using a "land line" it would be easy to narrow down who called. I have heard many times it was the downstairs neighbor who called to complain about noise but WS speculates the call was from Kortne.

Does that mean Kortne got to the neighbors "land line" to call for help?
Many people do not have a home phone anymore. Their cell phone is it.
How close can a cell phone call be traced to it's origin?

They can see the cell number and can usually locate it within 9 feet. That's how the phone let's you 'check in' and displays maps, etc.


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[PBJ2585]

That car just might have some evidence in it..

LE is very quiet so perhaps they are slowly piecing it together. Drugs could be involved, but I bet either MR or CP or both wanted to "hook up" with KS. No BF in the house or around that weekend. Get alcohol involved and you never know what can happen.

Hopefully, LE documented what cars were there the first and second 911 call. Sure would help to know this. I'm really beginning to doubt that LE even got out of the car the second time though. MR and CP would have had plenty of time to come up with a plan to remove her etc. Plus, as stated in reports, no one really started to look for her until Monday after her mom stopped by her house and discovered her missing.

 

[JurysOut]

The silence from her boyfriend and friends is really bothering me for some reason... is no one missing her except for her family? What is going on? Coupled with the dead silence from law enforcement, this is becoming one baffling case already. I am hoping they are awaiting lab results on something or other, although we have not heard anything about any sort of evidence of a disturbance in the apartment.

Did they take Kortne's car, and if so, do they still have it, do we know?

We haven't heard anything about evidence of a disturbance, but anything could have happened inside between 3:45 AM Sunday and whatever time WS arrived on Monday morning. If the apartment was unlocked, who knows if anyone came and went on Sunday night?


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[JoCoKSEyes]

We haven't heard anything about evidence of a disturbance, but anything could have happened inside between 3:45 AM Sunday and whatever time WS arrived on Monday morning. If the apartment was unlocked, who knows if anyone came and went on Sunday night?


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True. The window to commit this crime and then "clean up" was longer than most are considering.

 

[cluciano63]

True. The window to commit this crime and then "clean up" was longer than most are considering.

True, but they couldn't have known that no one would come looking for her on
Sunday morning.

Also, why leave her door unlocked? You would think whoever took her (assuming that is what happened) would lock up and get rid of the keys, to make it look like she took off. Also get rid of her phone, etc...seems very sloppy as far as the "afterward" part.

 

[PBJ2585]

True, but they couldn't have known that no one would come looking for her on
Sunday morning.

Also, why leave her door unlocked? You would think whoever took her (assuming that is what happened) would lock up and get rid of the keys, to make it look like she took off. Also get rid of her phone, etc...seems very sloppy as far as the "afterward" part.

Yes, they got out of there early after cleaning up anything if that was needed. The dog was there, the neighbors, someone could stop by for her..etc. Lingering in the apartment would not have been ideal.

But they still had plenty of time to plan, move a body ( hopefully not) because Sunday no one was looking for them or her.. They had lots of time. I think CP would say he left the door unlocked to match up with his: what happened to you story?

 

[PBJ2585]

This was very helpful! Violent meaning physical harm? Physical abuse when he drinks? Could be why he said he was the DD. Even though his license is suspended, right?

MR is adamant that cops would not/could not find anything incriminating in his car. If his car was supposed to be with CP, and MR is at home asleep, how could MR be so positively sure that his car would be "clean"? If you put that together with MR's insistence that "we" didn't do anything wrong, I think this further indicates that. . .whatever they did, they did it together.

I am also with PalmyraDad's thinking that whenever Kortne was moved from the location, she was moved in her own car. This is also how/why MR is so confident that LE couldn't find anything in his car.

I don't think anyone has ever accused MR of forcing himself on women, but he has expressed open anger about women turning him down. As for CP, I speculate that there may be many "rumors" that he has a consistent history of becoming violent toward women, though only when he is intoxicated.

I believe these two are "sticking together" because they both played a part and are using that as a "threat" against the other, if one were to rat. In other words, I suspect they tell each other, "If you tell them I did this, I will tell them you did that." This keeps them both quiet.

Both men are very familiar with the law and both have a lot of "experience" dealing with LE. They, for instance, are well aware that LE needs a search warrant to enter a house, so it's perfectly reasonable to expect they held their breath and waited for LE to leave. But as a side note, I believe CP is the dumber one and the "weaker link". If anyone is going to crack, he will be the one to crack first.

 

[Cassell]

In this scenario, how does her car get back to her apartment with the keys in it?

To other locals who are younger than me (practically anyone)-

Who stays at The Gas Station long enough to get wasted? Srsly. The drinks arent particularly interesting or cheap, there's no dancing -is there?- and the food is pedestrian at best.

Aren't there a fair number of tourist families there in summer?

Just seems like a dorky place to be on a summer weekend unless I missed a memo that wasn't distributed to old people.

Actually the Gas Station is a very popular place. I was there a few times and its quite crowded with people Kortnes age.

 

[PalmyraDad]

I was just thinking back to times in the past where I've called the police for noise or other disturbances. About 50% of the time they came to my door and talked to me and took my name and phone number. The other 50% of the time they contacted me by phone only. I'm beginning to wonder too if they ever did get out of the car that second time and instead just did a drive by or hung out in the alley for a while to observe the scene. They had a long history of coming to this address for complaints and it's possible that a phone call to the complainant and a drive by with observation was sufficient. I've been disturbed all along by the downstairs neighbor not answering the door but now I wonder if they really did knock.

 

[Annie1004]

So lemme get this straight: Are we to believe that CP, as the DD, was sober or close to it? With license supposedly suspended ( like THAT is going discourage driving)? Two undesirable track rats.

My guess is that LE is waiting for a slip-up or evidence. It is way too quiet. Only Kortne's parents seem to be the concerned ones. So very sad.

 

[PBJ2585]

So lemme get this straight: Are we to believe that CP, as the DD, was sober or close to it? With license supposedly suspended ( like THAT is going discourage driving)? Two undesirable track rats.

My guess is that LE is waiting for a slip-up or evidence. It is way too quiet. Only Kortne's parents seem to be the concerned ones. So very sad.

No, I don't think CP was sober.. Another thing to worry about is his violence towards women when he is intoxicated... As noted by locals.

Hopefully they know and have a lot more proof than we do!

 

[JurysOut]

So lemme get this straight: Are we to believe that CP, as the DD, was sober or close to it? With license supposedly suspended ( like THAT is going discourage driving)? Two undesirable track rats.

My guess is that LE is waiting for a slip-up or evidence. It is way too quiet. Only Kortne's parents seem to be the concerned ones. So very sad.

I thought so too, but have seen some community involvement. The Peace Pie pizzas drew so many customers, the restaurant was having trouble keeping up. They ran out of table wear and napkins..everything, basically. But they were very very sincere in their concern about Kortne. Every person we encountered in the process said 'thank you' and 'every pizza helps' . Very gracious & very concerned & very eager to help.

Yesterday there was a car wash at Lebanon Valley Mall.

I think it's more a lack of publicity. Kortne's family doesn't have the online presence and social network blitz that the Shunick family was able to assemble.

I can't speak to the attitudes of Kortne's friends and associates, but the community is paying attention.

There are many people like me hounding local media, sticking fliers in people's faces, mentioning Kortne everywhere we go...there are a LOT of fliers in Palmyra. They had to have been replaced a few times.


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[JurysOut]

Actually the Gas Station is a very popular place. I was there a few times and its quite crowded with people Kortnes age.

Oh, cw028 was quick to point out that I'm old & out of the loop ;-)

(to casual observers- that was very friendly banter, btw)

Thanks for the info. I'll have to send in a young operative to check it out.

Although if I got there early enough, the children probably wouldn't notice if I was just sitting around.

White, suburban, middle class, middle aged women are almost completely invisible. It's sort of a shame not to use that invisibility for robbing banks or something.

J/K!! J/K!! J/K!! J/K!! J/K!!




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[JurysOut]

I was just thinking back to times in the past where I've called the police for noise or other disturbances. About 50% of the time they came to my door and talked to me and took my name and phone number. The other 50% of the time they contacted me by phone only. I'm beginning to wonder too if they ever did get out of the car that second time and instead just did a drive by or hung out in the alley for a while to observe the scene. They had a long history of coming to this address for complaints and it's possible that a phone call to the complainant and a drive by with observation was sufficient. I've been disturbed all along by the downstairs neighbor not answering the door but now I wonder if they really did knock.

That's another one in my 'possibly didn't knock' column.

Look, I really don't care if they knocked or not, but they owe the public the truth.

If they did a drive by, just frickin say so!

Now they've dug themselves a hole and will have trouble walking it back.

^very bad mixed metaphors. Ugh.

IMO, jmo, moo, etc


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[KellyConQueso]

<snip>
Many people do not have a home phone anymore. Their cell phone is it.
How close can a cell phone call be traced to it's origin?

It depends. These days, all cell phones, even "dumb" phones have GPS radios built in. It is actually against the law for cell phone companies to provide service for phones without a GPS radio.

When making a call to 911, the GPS radio will provide the best estimate of your location to the 911 call center. This happens even if you have all geo-location services on your phone disabled - it will automatically turn itself on.

That being said, GPS has its limitations. My parents have a very thick tile roof on their house and no GPS signals can get though, so if I were to call 911 from their house, my location would probably be pin-pointed through call tower triangulation which is not very good. Dense tree cover and tall buildings also hinder GPS location.

If the phone can retrieve signals from at least 3 of the 24 GPS satellites circling the earth, your location can be pin-pointed within about 30 yards. A fourth signal can get it down to about 10 feet and also accurately measure your altitude.

 

[JurysOut]

If you are on twitter, please use the hash tags #KortneStouffer and #BringKortneHome

 

[Knox]

Oh, cw028 was quick to point out that I'm old & out of the loop ;-)

(to casual observers- that was very friendly banter, btw)

Thanks for the info. I'll have to send in a young operative to check it out.

Although if I got there early enough, the children probably wouldn't notice if I was just sitting around.

White, suburban, middle class, middle aged women are almost completely invisible. It's sort of a shame not to use that invisibility for robbing banks or something.

J/K!! J/K!! J/K!! J/K!! J/K!!




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Hey thanks for outing me and my Mom Bomb (vehicle). Heretoforth, I was able to lurk around the twenty-something crowd unnoticed :floorlaugh:

After re-reading media links, facebook pages and unmentionable sites yesterday, as well as reading all your opinions here; I think LE has more evidence than we think they do. That's my hope, for her family's sake lease: