Thank you! I think the other post was information from social media, so we can't discuss.
Found Deceased PA - Linda Stoltzfoos, 18, Bird-in-Hand, Lancaster County, 21 June 2020 *arrest* #2
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Thank you! I think the other post was information from social media, so we can't discuss.
CuriousQuiet1
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And from that article they can find 25 year old bones! Amazing.You are absolutely correct, @Maplesyrup. The capability of these "sniffer" dogs is quite amazing. Some time ago, I found an article (link below) describing this very thing. Totally fascinating..... well, to me at least!
The CSI death dogs: Sniffing out the truth behind the crime-scene
[...] Dogs' sense of smell is far more acute than that of humans – the nose of a German shepherd contains about 200 million olfactory cells, while a human nose has about 20 million.
[...] One of the questions surrounding human cadaver dogs is how soon after death they can recognise a corpse, and how long a "fresh" corpse must remain in one place for a dog to detect that it has been there.
[...] Several squares had been placed beneath a clothed corpse within three hours of death, when some organs and many cells of the human body are still functioning. Over the next month, the dogs did hundreds of trials in which they signalled the contaminated square with 98 per cent accuracy, falling to 94 per cent when the square had been in contact with the corpse for only two minutes. [...]
Curiosity1234
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Oh sorry JDough, I don't have a link. I was just adding my opinion to what was posted earlier.
She could have been alive and drugged; unable to get away even if not bound up. JMO. Also, he was in the general area of Harvest Drive in Ronks. From that location to the apartment he lived in is a 6 minute drive. He could have been a hop and a jump from his apartment. JMO.
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oceanblueeyes
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Really?
A much lower murder rate? You mean homicide rates since those are normally DP?
Wow, that's interesting. Do you have a link to that data because I would be very interested in reading it especially since NY isn't a DP state, but violent homicides are soaring like in many other states. How many homicides happen each year in all those state who don't have it?
Are these states less populated, and spread out because population per capita really changes statistical data as you know.
If less homicide then that proves the DP wasn't ever enacted to be a detterent for others like so many have claimed.
I don't understand why so many have even thought that to begin with.. when clearly it was enacted to punish each individual defendant only... based solely on the circumstances surrounding each defendant's crimes.
I've seen some gruesome premediated first degree murder cases in states without the DP, and it sickens me when a DA does a plea, knowing it was all planned out, yet agreed to a watered down lesser degree because they had no other bargaining chip to use. Seeing the grieving families so irate has been heart shattering.
Thanks again, Rocky.
Eta: I apologize everyone. Its I just find this fascinating.
Rocky you can just send me the link privately if you will.
Jmho
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Most of the articles discussing the DP are biased. But here's a research paper.
https://www.dartmouth.edu/~chance/teaching_aids/books_articles/JLpaper.pdf
https://www.dartmouth.edu/~chance/teaching_aids/books_articles/JLpaper.pdf
Here you go.
Murder Rate of Death Penalty States Compared to Non-Death Penalty States | Death Penalty Information Center
Although the murder rate in NYC has increased by 21% since the beginning of this year, ( and I assume none brought to trial yet) It was at the lowest rate since 1965 with more people in the city at the end of 2018.
New York Crime Rates 1960 - 2018
That's a tough one. I'm still on the fence to be honest, and here's why.
Part of me thinks he was stalking her and poorly planned the abduction. The reason I think that is because I don't see why he'd be in that area on a Sunday at 11.30 am. It's not like he was on his way to work, and at the last minute changed his plans, because he wouldn't have been working that day. So, where would he have been going? I may be wrong but that area looks like it's very rural... not like that road is a shortcut to get to another part of the town, but again I may be wrong. I don't know enough about him. He may have been on his way to a friends house, or maybe just out for a Sunday drive ....something along those lines.
The part of me that makes me think it was random is, if he did plan it, he would have had to know in advance that she'd be walking alone, and what time she'd be leaving church services. I am not sure how Amish services are conducted and if they all end at a certain time, but even if they do, she stayed to wash dishes after. He would have had to know when she was leaving , and who's farm the service would have been held at for that week as well, in advance. If he was looking for her, I would think the cameras and the guy that was sitting on his porch watching cars would have seen him turning around more than once because his window of opportunity was short.... very short, within 5 minutes. If it was planned, I would think he'd as least be smart enough to have her take off the head covering, which is another reason I don't think it was planned.
Again, all just a guess.
heart8788
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Yes, they did report and LE came out. It ended up that someone was digging for worms.
Yes. His apartment was very close. However, I question if he would actually take her to his apartment. That would indeed be a very risky thing to do. But are we assuming a rational thinking person who was not so rational?
sds71
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In New Holland, about 10 miles from where Linda Stoltzfoos went missing June 21, hundreds of volunteers have taken to the hills looking for the missing 18-year-old, or at least some clues....
The 4,000 acre stretch was selected because of reports that Justo Smoker’s vehicle was there. Smoker was arrested last weekend on a charge of kidnapping Stoltzfoos...
The district attorney’s office said it needs more information from people about the car that’s a key piece of evidence.
Search for missing Amish woman focused on new area of Pa.
The 4,000 acre stretch was selected because of reports that Justo Smoker’s vehicle was there. Smoker was arrested last weekend on a charge of kidnapping Stoltzfoos...
The district attorney’s office said it needs more information from people about the car that’s a key piece of evidence.
Search for missing Amish woman focused on new area of Pa.
Curiosity1234
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New Holland, an area of 4, 000 acres where JS vehicle was reportedly seen. He sure didn't keep a low profile.
The Welsh Mountain Area which is part of New Holland and East Earl TWP is where most of the search has been centered on. (MISSING AMISH TEEN: Hundreds of volunteers search East Earl Township). This area played a role in another kidnapping/murder many years ago, the victim was found in the Welsh Mountain (Search for Stoltzfoos continues, draws comparison to 40-year-old crime)
LE should keep in mind that they can pull the data off of the ECU in the car.
That will give data as to how fast the car has been going for the past 30 days, in relation to time and date, and when it was driven. They should be able to take that data and calculate distance and pinpoint the search more accurately IMO.
So for example, if on Sunday afternoon, the car was driving say for 30 minutes at a steady 40 mph, and then was not running for 45 minutes, LE can assume he drove 20 miles and possibly buried her.
Of course, if he doubled back, that may complicate things, but imo it may be worth checking.
They could also use another vehicle to match the data in relation to road condition. So, if he was driving on a back road with 4 curves and a straightaway, they could match the speed of him slowing for the curves and then accelerating. They'd know they were on the right road if the speed matches the data.
That will give data as to how fast the car has been going for the past 30 days, in relation to time and date, and when it was driven. They should be able to take that data and calculate distance and pinpoint the search more accurately IMO.
So for example, if on Sunday afternoon, the car was driving say for 30 minutes at a steady 40 mph, and then was not running for 45 minutes, LE can assume he drove 20 miles and possibly buried her.
Of course, if he doubled back, that may complicate things, but imo it may be worth checking.
They could also use another vehicle to match the data in relation to road condition. So, if he was driving on a back road with 4 curves and a straightaway, they could match the speed of him slowing for the curves and then accelerating. They'd know they were on the right road if the speed matches the data.
Curiosity1234
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What does ECU stand for Rocky1 ? My how interesting that they can get this info.
Curiosity1234
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So sad to read what happened to a 14 year old little girl.
MyJoey
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Exactly what I think! I think when he was seen at the Harvest Drive location on the 23rd he was retrieving Linda’s body. Harvest Drive is 3 miles from Linda’s home. Searchers were out looking for her that day, super gutsy move for him to be there just to bury a bra and socks (as some have said) I think he panicked and didn’t want her found so he went back and got her. The bra and socks, he forgot. They were buried but only 6-8 inches under ground. Thing is where did he take her from there ?
TwoBlueJays
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I never considered his apartment as an option on that Sunday; LE would know. Did he go home that night? In other words, could she have been there as well? That night, the days after, and then moved? No cadaver hit in the apartment. Sad shades of Faye Swetlik.
Moo
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Re: planned abduction v impulse decision, if any theories shared a few days ago about psych impact of his young life experiences are even a little bit applicable, some of the conditions linked to those developmental experiences are notorious for leaving behind some off the charts impulsivity. I wouldn’t be surprised to find he’d driven past and responded to an impulse he had right there and then tbh. Not just because the theory posts but just because of what we do know about him.
It doesn’t sound meticulously planned in any way.
It doesn’t sound meticulously planned in any way.
MyJoey
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That case was horrible! I was young when that happened. I was talking to one of the searchers the other day, the woods are so thick and hard to search, she said ..... she has a hard time believing Justo would put that much effort into taking Linda there but it was reported his phone pings in the area days before and after Linda goes missing.
"That's the Engine Control Unit."
Not to get too far OT, but....
There's another control unit that deploys the airbag in a crash contains an Event Data Recorder. That records many things like speed, direction of travel, when the brakes were applied, throttle position, along with many other things. It also contains a GPS that can give your location to render help in the event of a crash in some cases. Travel can't be traced though because when a crash occurs, the EDV is activated and records roughly 30 seconds before the crash happened, so it's only recording in a loop and then erased until a crash happens. After the crash, that data is then stored and it takes special tools to retrieve the data. Some states won't allow LE to access the data unless it's a fatal accident.
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