PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #16

[ChuckMaureen]

He may have been told he was on a list, or that "they" knew about something that could get him sanctioned or publicly disgraced. Not all communications are by text or email.

The "Internet searches" discovered on Gricar's personal home computer in April 2009 regarding 'how to destroy a hard drive' and 'water damage of a laptop' appear to reveal intent to damage a hard drive and/or laptop, presumed to be his work-related laptop.

Would normal work product predicate a DA to want to destroy records and county property or was it RG's way of creating a mystery? For what purpose, to what end? He had a daughter, a girlfriend. Why would he leave them to wonder?

If suicide, leave a note, explain to your loved ones and be done with it. There are those of us who know people who committed suicide, one of whom we know who left detailed instructions as to whom he wanted to take care of his beloved dog and who should get what was left of his belongings, etc. That person's suicide was a shock but not a 'surprise'. Apparently, regarding RG, it might be the same: a shock, but not a surprise (his brother)? Why take a wallet and keys? In case his remains would be located some years later, that his wallet and keys would be identifiers?

No bank account, credit card or other signs of activity. No signs of RG, alive or dead. Simply 'missing'. A suicidal who wanted to leave some sense of 'hope' for his loved ones to believe that he might still be alive?

But... I don't believe RG entered the Susquehanna.

 

[Ozoner]

The "Internet searches" discovered on Gricar's personal home computer in April 2009 regarding 'how to destroy a hard drive' and 'water damage of a laptop' appear to reveal intent to damage a hard drive and/or laptop, presumed to be his work-related laptop.

Would normal work product predicate a DA to want to destroy records and county property or was it RG's way of creating a mystery? For what purpose, to what end? He had a daughter, a girlfriend. Why would he leave them to wonder?

If suicide, leave a note, explain to your loved ones and be done with it. There are those of us who know people who committed suicide, one of whom we know who left detailed instructions as to whom he wanted to take care of his beloved dog and who should get what was left of his belongings, etc. That person's suicide was a shock but not a 'surprise'. Apparently, regarding RG, it might be the same: a shock, but not a surprise (his brother)? Why take a wallet and keys? In case his remains would be located some years later, that his wallet and keys would be identifiers?

No bank account, credit card or other signs of activity. No signs of RG, alive or dead. Simply 'missing'. A suicidal who wanted to leave some sense of 'hope' for his loved ones to believe that he might still be alive?

But... I don't believe RG entered the Susquehanna.

Maybe.

I think that's what Mel Wiley did. I think Wiley left town and committed suicide so that his mother wouldn't know he had killed himself.

 

[CountSnap]

4

Maybe.

I think that's what Mel Wiley did. I think Wiley left town and committed suicide so that his mother wouldn't know he had killed himself.

That is a very possible scenario for Mel. I always thought it might have been possible he wanted to see San Fran one more time then like so many do jump from the Golden Gate bridge.
Though, he did take some of his manuscripts with him when he left. Also, after learning a bit more about him from some people close to him, I'm somewhat suspecting he made a go of it.
A couple of things:
He "borrowed" $500 from a friend right before leaving.
He was a bit more of a lady's man than I had thought before. Mel had game, unfortunately for his ex-wife. So it is very possible that he made his way to California and found someone there.
That is the angle I'm going off of.

As for Ray, I have a two-fold theory.
One I won't mention here, yet. As I've just started on it.
The other is, that he was very anxious/depressed the week before his disappearance, and that he did commit suicide.
All the best everyone.
Can't believe we still don't know what happened to him after all these years.

 

[CountSnap]

I have walked the park and the bridge as well as the surrounding area. I posted pictures way back in the thread..or the previous one. Jumping from the bridge would require him to walk out to the middle of the bridge, it would be super obvious. To jump from the downstream side would require climbing over both the concrete barrier and the higher railing. Not exactly something you stand on to take a swan dive without a few dozen people noticing. Plus it's not high enough to guarantee you would be killed upon hitting the water, like jumping from the Golden Gate bridge. No where else nearby offers an opportunity to jump in the river that would not preclude a last moment change of heart. The rail bridge is missing too much of its decking. While the woods look dense from Google Earth, in reality they are not at ground level. I have always been interested in abandoned rail right of ways so I did take the time to check from the rail bridge to the main line, just to be sure RG could not have used it to stay out of sight.

My suicide theory for Ray isn't necessarily him jumping from the bridge. Though if he did it wouldn't have had to have been mid day when people would surely have seen it. He could have been around town or the mall until closing time, then made his way to the bridge.

I would suspect if he did commit suicide, he may have been in the water God knows where and did the same thing Kelly Nash likely did. Shot himself while in the water.
I believe, and please someone correct me, there was a missing firearm from the house?

 

[Falcon500]

My suicide theory for Ray isn't necessarily him jumping from the bridge. Though if he did it wouldn't have had to have been mid day when people would surely have seen it. He could have been around town or the mall until closing time, then made his way to the bridge.

I would suspect if he did commit suicide, he may have been in the water God knows where and did the same thing Kelly Nash likely did. Shot himself while in the water.
I believe, and please someone correct me, there was a missing firearm from the house?

He shot himself in the water? What water? Where is his body?

 

[CountSnap]

He shot himself in the water? What water? Where is his body?

I was thinking the same river that the laptop was found in. Though as I was saying I'm not sure where. Alternative is that he shot himself in the distant tree line. Might have taken a good long walk to think things through. Or, similar to Brian Barton and found a secluded place. Anyone's guess.
As for his body that could very well have traveled downstream or been caught under and we just never found it.
I think of someone right off the top of my head who was just never found in a river even though people saw him leap off a bridge. Mark Wade Potts – The Charley Project

Nice name, Falcon.
I see you are L.E. Are you familiar with many water searches?

 

[CountSnap]

Where is J Karen Arnold these days?

 

[minazoe]

I never heard there was a missing firearm from Ray's house. mOO

 

[CountSnap]

I never heard there was a missing firearm from Ray's house. mOO

I could be wrong on that. I hadn't thought much about this case in years until yesterday and was thinking about everything again.
So, was hoping someone might remember but it'd be just as easy for me to look into that bit myself.
I think I could have been thinking of just the missing laptop during a search.
So, please forgive me if I was wrong on that.
All the best everyone.

 

[Trackergd]

I don't ever remember hearing about a missing firearm. Also the "distant tree line" is not nearly as thick as you would think looking at google earth. There is no thick stand of woods nearby that a body would not have been found in after this amount of time. To get to an area that could hide a body for a long period of time, RG would have to have crossed the bridge on foot, headed South on Rt 45 to Chillisquaque and wander into the East - West running ridge

 

[CountSnap]

I don't ever remember hearing about a missing firearm. Also the "distant tree line" is not nearly as thick as you would think looking at google earth. There is no thick stand of woods nearby that a body would not have been found in after this amount of time. To get to an area that could hide a body for a long period of time, RG would have to have crossed the bridge on foot, headed South on Rt 45 to Chillisquaque and wander into the East - West running ridge

Noted. Thank you for the thoughts.
The Wild Tale of RG continues.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I never heard there was a missing firearm from Ray's house. mOO

According to Tony Gricar, RFG did not own a gun. He didn't like them.

For that reason, and considering that suicide by firearm can be messy, a self inflicted gunshot is exceptionally unlikely.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

What really clinches it for me is Ray's final phone call to his girlfriend. He didn't need to remind her to take care of the dogs. For one thing, she knew the dogs' routine as well as Ray did. For another thing, dogs will let you know when they need to be let out or want to be fed. That phone call has the feel of a final goodbye. Ray may not have actually meant to reach his girlfriend; he likely planned to leave her a voicemail message. We'll never know what he would have said.

Respectively snipped.

PEF had left a note for RFG, asking him to call her if he could not take the dog out.

The call was to the office, and I don't PEF had voicemail there. If she was not available, he would just left a message.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

My apologies for my absence. I was sidetracked over the last several week. I do write things outside of the Gricar case.

One thing that I was looking at is, could we simulate the bridge drop? We know the height of the barrier to within 2 inches. We could "build" one, out of wood or something, rent a Mini Cooper, and see if it could be tossed from the driver's side?

Trackergd, I have never seen your photos of the tree line.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Where is J Karen Arnold these days?

She is still a member of the PA Bar as of about a month or so ago.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Snipping only for brevity:

Would normal work product predicate a DA to want to destroy records and county property or was it RG's way of creating a mystery? For what purpose, to what end? He had a daughter, a girlfriend. Why would he leave them to wonder?

It could. One thing I've considered are notes on personnel, job performance, personal observations. Those are the kind of thing that RFG may not have wanted a successor to see.

Keep in mind that he used the laptop as a home computer, so there could be numerous private things that RFG didn't want anyone else to see.

I don't think it is too unusual for someone to want to get rid of the data on their own computer. That is not the strangest part of this case. RFG, however, was looking at excessive means to do so.

If suicide, leave a note, explain to your loved ones and be done with it.

A majority of people that commit suicide do not leave notes.

Why take a wallet and keys? In case his remains would be located some years later, that his wallet and keys would be identifiers?

I never considered it, but that would be a possibility. Nice suggestion!

But... I don't believe RG entered the Susquehanna.

Since RFG disappeared, there has been but one body in the Susquehanna that has been unrecovered. It was on a different branch of the river, and happened in the winter, when the cold (and ice) inhibited underwater searches.

There were two children that drowned in the Susquehanna after RFG died; it was also at a time the river was high. They went in at Lewisburg, and were found in less than 36 hours, only 200 yards from where they went into the river.

I have to agree with your assessment.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

Wondering if RG disappeared himself 'voluntarily'... could a someone have threatened him and/or his family (daughter, girlfriend) and the only choices he was offered were for him to go along 'peacefully' with whomever and all would be well for his family, or proceed as normal (investigation/prosecution) and risk danger to himself AND family?

Might we safely assume RG's then-recent cases were reviewed for potential relevance to his disappearance?

Other thoughts...

I'm also sensing that RG had led a secret life... was his time typically always accounted for? Did RG typically go out-of-sight for hours and/or maybe a day or two at times? Just throwing ideas out there. RG had control over his work laptop but not home computer so that leads me to thinking RG used his work laptop for other than work-related purposes.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

The recent cases were reviewed. Nothing.

RFG did not have a home computer until 12/04-01/05. He used the laptop as his home computer.

 

[browning]

Wondering if RG disappeared himself 'voluntarily'... could a someone have threatened him and/or his family (daughter, girlfriend) and the only choices he was offered were for him to go along 'peacefully' with whomever and all would be well for his family, or proceed as normal (investigation/prosecution) and risk danger to himself AND family?

Might we safely assume RG's then-recent cases were reviewed for potential relevance to his disappearance?

Other thoughts...

I'm also sensing that RG had led a secret life... was his time typically always accounted for? Did RG typically go out-of-sight for hours and/or maybe a day or two at times? Just throwing ideas out there. RG had control over his work laptop but not home computer so that leads me to thinking RG used his work laptop for other than work-related purposes.

He wouldn't leave and never speak to his daughter again. I don't think he's alive.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

He wouldn't leave and never speak to his daughter again. I don't think he's alive.

That we know of.