PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #7

[RubyRed]

RUbyREd,

one of the sightings stand out to me: Assistant DA Carolyn Fenton left work early on the 15th and spotted RG driving a car that was neither his nor his girlfriends, and thought "Ray's leaving early, so it's ok if I leave early." Ray wasn't missing yet, and she still spotted him in a different car.

And I need a little help here: what happened to Carolyn Fenton's sighting? Wasn't it disregarded because it was inconsistent with the "walk the dog, I'm taking a drive" phone call?

This is what I found on it. And welcome to WS.

Fenton said she was about 15 to 20 feet away. Gricar was driving a gold or silver, metallic-colored car, not his Mini Cooper or Fornicola's Honda, she said.

When she heard Gricar was missing, she went to police. But her sighting was immediately ruled out as not fitting the timeline they'd established, which put Gricar in Lewisburg at that time.

Read more: http://www.centredaily.com/2006/05/13/3802/missed-leads.html#ixzz1dRtNRplr

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I will say what bothers me the most is:

Was he in the habit of wearing the same clothes the next day that he wore the previous day?

The fleece was outerwear, so that would temperature related. The rest, I don't know.

He wanted to sleep in that day. Was this normal or out of character?

His SO said he was napping; I have heard that he was trying to move cases on others and was working harder to do that.

He didn't go to work at all. Was this the norm?

He took off part of the day before.

In my opinion I think he disappeared the night before.

There were about 10 reported people who saw him on 4/15, and his scent was detected by a bloodhound in the parking lot in Lewisburg.

 

[RubyRed]

I guess I'm not saying what I am trying to say.

Ray Gricar was prosecuting a child molester, NOT a murderer. That's why it is odd to me that he dropped the case on grounds of "admission, but no confession." If this was an alleged murderer, I would better understand the logic. You don't just prosecute a murderer; you must have your ducks in a row to get a murder conviction. And more times than not, the evidence is not there.

BUT this was not a murder case and it doesn't make since to apply that logic.

The good ole boys club is alive and well today, given the cover-up, so maybe it was even worse back then.

Could someone have pressured him to not prosecute? Look at all the prestegious faculty members at Penn, they kept quiet. Maybe a code of silence as sick as it is.

Then there is the sinister side, but no proof of that. If he deliberately disappeared he brought more scrutiny upon himself by doing that, so that does not make sense to me. Wouldn't it be better to stick around so you could monitor what is going on?

Then there is the possibility that this horrendous crime is in no way connected to him and that he truly met with foul play, totally unrelated.

We have seen cover up after cover up with athletes, coaches, priests, politicians etc. all because the almighty dollar is more important.

I want to believe that he was a good man, not all are like the despicable bunch at PSU.

If anything this case at PSU has gotten his name and pic back out there and maybe we will finally learn what happened. Sad way for it to happen, though.

There is a lot of speculation going about on the www, I am even guilty of it crossing my mind as well. Until more facts come out I am going to view this case as someone who mysteriously vanished and hope some answers are found. jmo

 

[minazoe]

I thought his scent was not detected outside of the car in Lewisburg.

can we confirm?

 

[minazoe]

I think there is no doubt that RG was in TOTAL FREAKOUT MODE before he went missing...

 

[minazoe]

Has there been a complete search of JS's home and offices?

this is such a heartbreak.

 

[asp17061]

Local news around here is stating there's no connection between Sandusky and the Gricar disappearance.

We'll see, but I'm also leaning this way.

 

[cj327]

JJ - what are your thoughts on Fenton's sighting? Believable? I know I could recognize a coworker at that distance.

I know the angle of this new story was that the local police were doing a poor job (in the first year), but wow, they seem to have done a really poor job if all this is to be believed. Also, I know the police have a lot of info that we don't. Maybe some of that info makes Fenton's sighting an impossibility.

http://www.centredaily.com/2006/05/13/3802/missed-leads.html#ixzz1dRtNRplr

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I thought his scent was not detected outside of the car in Lewisburg.

can we confirm?

Yes: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05112/492590-85.stm#ixzz0MQYNOmMd

It was later revealed it went for about 20 yards from where the car was.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

JJ - what are your thoughts on Fenton's sighting? Believable? I know I could recognize a coworker at that distance.

I know the angle of this new story was that the local police were doing a poor job (in the first year), but wow, they seem to have done a really poor job if all this is to be believed. Also, I know the police have a lot of info that we don't. Maybe some of that info makes Fenton's sighting an impossibility.

http://www.centredaily.com/2006/05/13/3802/missed-leads.html#ixzz1dRtNRplr

Tape from the camera was played on Disappeared; it was from the evening before. I think the camera would have caught him there that day.

I've wondered if CF could have gotten the day wrong.

 

[RubyRed]

There were about 10 reported people who saw him on 4/15, and his scent was detected by a bloodhound in the parking lot in Lewisburg.

sbbm

It was my understanding they were not confirmed and that scent dogs didn't pick anything up where people thought they had saw him.

 

[RubyRed]

Tape from the camera was played on Disappeared; it was from the evening before. I think the camera would have caught him there that day.

I've wondered if CF could have gotten the day wrong.

Surveillance footage shows Fenton leaving the courthouse at the time she remembers, but cameras did not pan wide enough to catch the car she said was driven by Gricar.

Read more: http://www.centredaily.com/2006/05/13/3802/missed-leads.html#ixzz1dSEMs5Xr

 

[J. J. in Phila]

sbbm

It was my understanding they were not confirmed and that scent dogs didn't pick anything up where people thought they had saw him.

That is incorrect.

LE have stated they believe he was there. Two witnesses saw him in the parking lot, in the Mini Cooper at around 5-5:30 PM. http://www.centredaily.com/2009/03/19/2396336/the-time-line-of-the-witness-sightings.html

There was another released since then, but not the time. It was in Centre Hall.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I think there is no doubt that RG was in TOTAL FREAKOUT MODE before he went missing...

I would not call the description "TOTAL FREAKOUT MODE." Tired, lacking focus, "distraught."

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

New to this case, and have not read all of the backstory. One theory that admittedly seems inconsistent with some of the evidence: is it possible RG went to the river intending to damage or even dispose of the laptop and slipped and fell into the river, possibly after injuring himself in some fashion (or having a heart attack), ultimately drowning? Hasn't it been said that he didn't know how to swim? Is it possible that the river searches were not adequate to find him?

If this were the case, it would of course not explain why he wanted to damage the computer.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

New to this case, and have not read all of the backstory. One theory that admittedly seems inconsistent with some of the evidence: is it possible RG went to the river intending to damage or even dispose of the laptop and slipped and fell into the river, possibly after injuring himself in some fashion (or having a heart attack), ultimately drowning? Hasn't it been said that he didn't know how to swim? Is it possible that the river searches were not adequate to find him?

If this were the case, it would of course not explain why he wanted to damage the computer.

He did know to swim, but he was not a strong swimmer. The Susquehanna was very high on 4/15, and had just dropped below flood stage.

There were searches of the Susquehanna beginning on 4/17 from the air. They even used a cadaver dog on a boat at one point. There were at least 6 separate searches.

Because of the reward, they had more people looking up and down the river on their own.

 

[fasteddy4]

Just wanted to add a few things. I've followed this case a couple years ago but it has caught my attention again due to the happenings at PSU.

First, if Gricar truly disappeared on his own, I think he is going to find it increasingly difficult to conceal his identity. Pictures of him are everywhere from sports channels to regular news channels. Even Whitey Bulger eventually got caught through the use of pictures being posted everywhere. In fact, as this PSU story gets bigger (and it will), Gricar may get to the point where he has to reveal himself because of all the pressure. He may want to come out of hiding to tell his side of the story. Or, like Bulger, someone may identify him and he may come home one day to find the FBI at his door.

Second, does anybody know why he had aliases? Was it due to his involvement in some sensitive cases where the government didn't want to let the public know who was working on a case? Or, were these names Gricar used in his private life? Found it strange.

Third, did Gricar have any connection to The Second Mile Foundation? And, okay, I'll ask it: Are we sure Gricar didn't have the same secret interests as Jerry Sandusky? Could this be the reason he destroyed his laptop before disappearing? What's the way most pedophiles get caught: Pics on a computer. This is not outlandish considering the rumors out there that Sandusky might have been pimping these boys out. Maybe Gricar didn't prosecute because he was involved as well. Then, as Sandusky continued his risky behavior after 1998, Gricar saw this was all going to blow back eventually and decided to disappear in 2005 after more stories started popping up. If it was me, I'd go back a month before Gricar disappeared and find out if there was some episode between Sandusky and a boy where somebody saw it, and Gricar might have caught wind of it.

I know the above paragraph is sensitive but I can't find one person online, attorney or not, who can figure out why he didn't pursue Sandusky in 1998. And, by all accounts, Gricar wasn't incompetent. So, it must be something else. And being bribed or something along those lines to not pursue doesn't ring true to me because it doesn't sound to me like he was a guy who was that much interested in material things. As some have said, he originally intended to be a stay at home dad in Centre County until someone found out he was an attorney. Not exactly a corporate/government ladder climber.

Just some thoughts . . .

 

[twinkiesmom]

I know the above paragraph is sensitive but I can't find one person online, attorney or not, who can figure out why he didn't pursue Sandusky in 1998.
Just some thoughts . . .

You mustn't have been looking very hard as his nephew and his colleague at the DA's office both believe he was being cautious in not bringing the charges due to the difficulty at securing a conviction.

As far as the rest of your post, no, just no. If Ray was mixed up with the pedos, he had no reason to run. Ray was way too smart to keep child *advertiser censored* on a work computer.

 

[minazoe]

what aliases?

never heard this before.

I don't think he was a ped. I think he could have been under great threat and duress.

thinking that gang bangers and thugs could shoot you at any moment is a tough way to live...but when some one with money, connections and power let's you know you are treading in quick sand...there is no doubt anything could happen.

I'm sure in this situation, you have to take the bribe....you have to be bought..or you're dead.

the minute you take the money. you're in it.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Second, does anybody know why he had aliases? Was it due to his involvement in some sensitive cases where the government didn't want to let the public know who was working on a case? Or, were these names Gricar used in his private life? Found it strange.

I don't think he used them, but those are last names of his wives. I think they were on credit reports or something like that.

Third, did Gricar have any connection to The Second Mile Foundation?

I have never heard of any outside interests, other than being involved in a battered woman's shelter in Centre County.

And, okay, I'll ask it: Are we sure Gricar didn't have the same secret interests as Jerry Sandusky?

I have never a suggestion that he was, though that isn't something likely to be discussed, obviously. Friends have insisted that he was attracted to adult women. We've all heard the he-drives-a-Mini-Cooper-so-he's-gay rumor, but most are stereotype.

Could this be the reason he destroyed his laptop before disappearing?

Well, he asked others about getting rid of the data about a year prior to his disappearance.

I am at a complete loss for why RFG did not try to prosecute. The only thing "good" I can say is that it was a monumental lapse of judgment on his part.

Knowing that a DA in Pennsylvania can request a grand jury and knowing that there can be a change in venue, I even find that difficult to believe. Still, he normally did not back down.