PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, former district attorney, Bellefonte, 15 Apr 2005 - #17

[Trackergd]

Any idea of the dollar amounts moved to SAV and VG? SAV could be Savings and VG could be Vanguard, however neither of these were listed in the financial documents I obtained.

"Many more damaging things" is rather interesting. Damaging to whom is the question and if it was severe enough for RG to walk away or for someone to make him vanish.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Any idea of the dollar amounts moved to SAV and VG? SAV could be Savings and VG could be Vanguard, however neither of these were listed in the financial documents I obtained.

"Many more damaging things" is rather interesting. Damaging to whom is the question and if it was severe enough for RG to walk away or for someone to make him vanish.

Vanguard would have anything under RFG's SSN. It would take no more than 72 hours to find it. Same with a US savings account. No idea of the dollar amount.

Since, according to what I heard, it was used to cause the nephew, TG, to back off, it would be either damaging to RFG or to the idea that it was something other than walkaway. TG was somewhat upset that, he had blindsided and that the computer searches made it look like walkaway. It could be more information that would point to walkaway, like moving money to different accounts.

Here is the page from the police report dealing with this.


This is the smoking gun on moving money.

 

[minazoe]

uh huh..as we have been saying from the beginning...where is Ray's money? where is it?

 

[Curious_in_NC]

Any idea of the dollar amounts moved to SAV and VG? SAV could be Savings and VG could be Vanguard, however neither of these were listed in the financial documents I obtained.

"Many more damaging things" is rather interesting. Damaging to whom is the question and if it was severe enough for RG to walk away or for someone to make him vanish.

Just throwing this out there. VG is also the two letter ISO country code for the British Virgin Islands. I think this would be used in wire transfers.
International Bank Account Number - Wikipedia

 

[Trackergd]

Smoking gun indeed. Also note that RG did not say "I'm not going to get home in time"[to feed the dogs], just "I'm not going to get home". I would think the British Virgin Islands would be a risk given it is a vacation destination and there is a chance he could run into someone who knew him. Possibly a jumping off place to another global destination.

 

[Curious_in_NC]

He wouldn't need to actually go there to have a bank account there. A DA would probably know a bit about off shore banking. In fact the population is tiny so it would be a hard place to hide, but maybe a jumping off place as you suggest.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Smoking gun indeed. Also note that RG did not say "I'm not going to get home in time"[to feed the dogs], just "I'm not going to get home". I would think the British Virgin Islands would be a risk given it is a vacation destination and there is a chance he could run into someone who knew him. Possibly a jumping off place to another global destination.

My understanding is that the British Virgin Island banking can shield money from the prying eyes of a government. Top 10 Benefits Of British Virgin Islands Offshore Banking | Business Setup Worldwide

He could access it worldwide, even in 2005.

 

[Black Diamond]

SAV might not be an abbreviation for savings. My slight obsession with his travels to Slovenia leads to the SAV possibly being a fund for a retirement near the Sava river or the Savinja river or the Savinjska statistical region. All in Slovenia.

 

[Black Diamond]

Snipped.

I have to disagree with you here.

If he committed suicide, then there's at least a 50% chance that he went into the river. If his body rose to the surface and was missed, it probably floated downstream and eventually broke into numerous small pieces, perhaps at one of the small dams downriver. If that's what happened, then there's almost no chance that he'll be found at this point.

If he committed suicide on land, then there's probably a 75% chance that he'll be found eventually.

That puts the chances of his being found at no better than 37.5% if he committed suicide.

Good points, but one thing to note. The river was very low when Ray disappeared. If he jumped in the river then his body would have likely been found hung up somewhere by the searches before reaching turbines that would chop it up.

 

[annpats]

SAV might not be an abbreviation for savings. My slight obsession with his travels to Slovenia leads to the SAV possibly being a fund for a retirement near the Sava river or the Savinja river or the Savinjska statistical region. All in Slovenia.

SAV could also be short for Saint Vincent & The Grenadines, another Carribean island. Not sure if this is a Tax Haven like the British Virgin Islands though.

VG could stand for Virgin Gorda, a name of an island in the British Virgin Islands.

 

[Black Diamond]

Yes, by both his nephew and it is in the FBI file.

Seems obvious that if Ray walked off, then the last leg of his journey was likely on a flight that ended in Slovenia. A curious person, or detective, would wonder if any of those Slovenian relatives has any information to glean. Or how many times his daughter has traveled to Slovenia since 2005.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Seems obvious that if Ray walked off, then the last leg of his journey was likely on a flight that ended in Slovenia. A curious person, or detective, would wonder if any of those Slovenian relatives has any information to glean. Or how many times his daughter has traveled to Slovenia since 2005.

I don't know if his daughter has. Her mother was in Europe in early 2005, however.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

SAV might not be an abbreviation for savings. My slight obsession with his travels to Slovenia leads to the SAV possibly being a fund for a retirement near the Sava river or the Savinja river or the Savinjska statistical region. All in Slovenia.

Or the acronym of a Slovenian financial institution.

 

[Black Diamond]

There are many hypotheticals on Ray’s motive to walk off, but let’s think about the most likely motives.

1. He wants to be declared dead so Lara and/or Fornicola can collect his pension. I don’t buy it. If he loved them that much he wouldn’t want them to deal with grief just to collect free money that neither needs. Plus why not buy life insurance policies also?
2. Running off with a lady. Cares enough about Fornicola that he doesn’t want to break her heart. This is a decent theory for me. Sticking point is that’s a lot of trouble to go thru to not break someone’s heart all while breaking her heart because she doesn’t know what happened to you.
3. Fear of some criminal, such as Jerry Sandusky, whacking him. Very possible, but why not just drop his investigation into said criminal instead of starting a new life? Maybe it’s someone he already convicted and he knows the only way out is to disappear before someone makes him disappear.
4. He’s secretly a pedophile and runs off somewhere more pedophile friendly. Or maybe thinks someone is on to him and wants to get out before he gets caught. I actually think this is the most likely walk off motive. There’s nothing pointing to Ray being a ped, but then again aren’t most ped discoveries plagued by friends snd family saying “ I had no idea, I’m in shock.” I don’t want to believe this one, but objectively it makes the most sense.
5. He staged it all to make it the story it is. He succeeded beyond all expectations. He has an account here and likes to read all of the crazy theories and discussion here. One day he will release an autobiography.Maybe it’s already written with instructions for someone to publish it only after he dies. In all seriousness, the more I have thought about Ray staging this to create an epic disappearance mystery, the more it moved from a joke toward a plausible theory.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

First off, for someone with ten posts, you are doing pretty well.

Second, a while back I wrote a blog about motivations for RFG leaving. There is not necessarily one single motive; there could be several.

There are many hypotheticals on Ray’s motive to walk off, but let’s think about the most likely motives.

1. He wants to be declared dead so Lara and/or Fornicola can collect his pension. I don’t buy it. If he loved them that much he wouldn’t want them to deal with grief just to collect free money that neither needs. Plus why not buy life insurance policies also?

It depends. Providing financially for your loved ones can be a motivation.

2. Running off with a lady. Cares enough about Fornicola that he doesn’t want to break her heart. This is a decent theory for me. Sticking point is that’s a lot of trouble to go thru to not break someone’s heart all while breaking her heart because she doesn’t know what happened to you.

No woman that he knew is missing and no women from the area went missing at the same time. This is one that we can rule out.

3. Fear of some criminal, such as Jerry Sandusky, whacking him. Very possible, but why not just drop his investigation into said criminal instead of starting a new life? Maybe it’s someone he already convicted and he knows the only way out is to disappear before someone makes him disappear.

It is possible, but there have less than 2 dozen current/former prosecutors murdered in the last 100 years. In some of those cases, the murderer did not even know that the victim was a prosecutor. In the case of Sandusky, who would murder a prosecutor that isn't going to prosecute.

4. He’s secretly a pedophile and runs off somewhere more pedophile friendly. Or maybe thinks someone is on to him and wants to get out before he gets caught. I actually think this is the most likely walk off motive. There’s nothing pointing to Ray being a ped, but then again aren’t most ped discoveries plagued by friends snd family saying “ I had no idea, I’m in shock.” I don’t want to believe this one, but objectively it makes the most sense.

Even assuming that there was this, or some other, criminal activity, why leave. So far as we know, on 4/15/05, he was not being investigated, for anything, by LE.

5. He staged it all to make it the story it is. He succeeded beyond all expectations. He has an account here and likes to read all of the crazy theories and discussion here. One day he will release an autobiography.Maybe it’s already written with instructions for someone to publish it only after he dies. In all seriousness, the more I have thought about Ray staging this to create an epic disappearance mystery, the more it moved from a joke toward a plausible theory.

If RFG walked away, he proved himself more than LE in general, and the BPD/PSP in specific. This was 17 years ago, and we are still talking about him.

There is one additional possibility. RFG could have been hiding money off shore to protect his assets in his 2001 divorce. He was the one that filed, so he basically set the time of it. After 9/11, about 6 weeks after the final decree, the US was attacked and foreign transactions were increasingly scrutinized. He might not have been able to get the money back into the US, without causing some flags to go up. So, if correct, RFG walked to his money.

 

[Ozoner]

First off, for someone with ten posts, you are doing pretty well.

Second, a while back I wrote a blog about motivations for RFG leaving. There is not necessarily one single motive; there could be several.



It depends. Providing financially for your loved ones can be a motivation.

Can you point to any cases where someone disappeared for that reason without the beneficiary being in on it? If you could find such a case, I would expect it to stem from desperation, and no one in this scenario was financially desperate. That theory makes little sense.

It would also require you to believe that someone who had spent his life prosecuting lawnreakers would choose to perpetrate fraud on a massive scale.

Do you believe that Ray was that much of a hypocrite? He would probably have to be a psychopath for that scenario to be true.

No woman that he knew is missing and no women from the area went missing at the same time. This is one that we can rule out.

There are some grossly invalid assumptions here. The woman need not be missing and need not be from the area or even from the U.S.

It is possible, but there have less than 2 dozen current/former prosecutors murdered in the last 100 years. In some of those cases, the murderer did not even know that the victim was a prosecutor. In the case of Sandusky, who would murder a prosecutor that isn't going to prosecute.

I agree that Sandusky had nothing to do with this. Nothing makes me laugh derisively more than hearing Sandusky's named mentioned in connection with this case. It's idiotic.

Ray was about to retire. If his was murdered, and if it had anything to do with his job—it might not have—it's far more likely that the murderer was someone he had prosecuted successfully, possibly many years before. [/QUOTE]

Even assuming that there was this, or some other, criminal activity, why leave. So far as we know, on 4/15/05, he was not being investigated, for anything, by LE.

The only possible reason would be to have direct access to children, for instance in Thailand or in some other country where child prostitution is common. Still, I find it very far fetched because there was no evidence of anything like that back in 2005, and no evidence of anything like that has come to light in the intervening seventeen years.

If RFG walked away, he proved himself more than LE in general, and the BPD/PSP in specific. This was 17 years ago, and we are still talking about him.

It's not impossible, but I know of no one else who disappeared permanently in order to pull off what amounts to a practical joke. I don't believe that Mel Wiley did that; I believe that Mel Wiley ran off in order to commit suicide in a way that would protect his elderly mother from knowing that he had commited suicide.

There is one additional possibility. RFG could have been hiding money off shore to protect his assets in his 2001 divorce. He was the one that filed, so he basically set the time of it. After 9/11, about 6 weeks after the final decree, the US was attacked and foreign transactions were increasingly scrutinized. He might not have been able to get the money back into the US, without causing some flags to go up. So, if correct, RFG walked to his money.

Ray's assets seemed a little low considering his income history, but no evidence for that scenario has been found. It also doesn't make sense that he would be off somewhere leading an opulent lifestyle after going to so much effort to vanish.

I am around 50/50 on suicide versus foul play. I consider a walkaway situation incredibly unlikely.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Yes, I can point a case, from Central Pennsylvania, where someone disappeared and was not the beneficiary. Brenda Heist. Brenda Heist, who disappeared in 2002, found in Fla.

Snipped for emphasis:

It would also require you to believe that someone who had spent his life prosecuting lawnreakers would choose to perpetrate fraud on a massive scale.

Do you believe that Ray was that much of a hypocrite? He would probably have to be a psychopath for that scenario to be true.

The assumption that it is illegal is totally incorrect. Anyone may choose to disappear. It is only illegal if they are running from a crime (or running out on debts, possibly). RFG didn't do that.

A good lawyer would know this, and RFG was a good lawyer (I would argue brilliant). Fraud is defined as " Fraud is an intentionally deceptive action designed to provide the perpetrator with an unlawful gain or to deny a right to a victim." Fraud Definition He had no gain from disappearing, unless he was in cahoots with either or both PEF or LAG (and I don't think he was).

RFG could have ended up being involved with another woman, bu they did not vanish together, because there is missing woman with which he could have had contact. LE actually looked.

As for running from any crime, there is no evidence that RFG was being investigated in 2005 and this looks planned, not a spur of the moment departure.

And for the evidence RFG had secret accounts, it is posted above.

 

[minazoe]

I still get that Jack Wheeler feeling in this story.

the other feeling I get is that this computer had a great deal of stuff on it..it was the State's property and he should have let them destroy it. I think he wanted to make sure he could destroy it before he started using it for certain purposes.

why on earth wouldn't he just buy his own laptop? the man had money.

no one came out to say Ray was bi-sexual or a secret kink person...so ..

but he was 100 percent freaking out about something in the days before.

Ray had no expenses and had a decent income...he died practically penniless..( compared to what he should have )

think about it...

if you were going to kill yourself and. were so concerned about your loved ones...wouldn't you be like..hey babe here's the key to the offshore if I ever kick it...

well, that sure didn't happen, right? or did it?

 

[Shamrock1]

If I wanted to shelter assets or minimize tax liability, I wouldn’t go to a career criminal or accountant. I’d start with a prosecutor or defense attorney.

 

[Ozoner]

Yes, I can point a case, from Central Pennsylvania, where someone disappeared and was not the beneficiary. Brenda Heist. Brenda Heist, who disappeared in 2002, found in Fla.

That wasn't what I asked.