PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, former district attorney, Bellefonte, 15 Apr 2005 - #17

[DeeperSecrets]

Is this from the investigator's notes?

Yes, Kathleen McChesney's diary

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Mike's incident was making the rounds in State College in 2004.Would not surprise me if Gricar learned of it indirectly.

A rumor is not chargeable. Remember again that the Centre County DA's Office did not have any investigator, and did not investigate.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Yes, Kathleen McChesney's diary

Like I said, I was not assuming it was Sandusky.

If you recall, defensive coordinator Booker Brooks talked about bringing his granddaughter into public showers with him.

 

[DeeperSecrets]

A rumor is not chargeable. Remember again that the Centre County DA's Office did not have any investigator, and did not investigate.

Not chargeable but may have deeply affected Ray to learn that whatever plan he may have worked out in 1998 didn't work.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Not chargeable but may have deeply affected Ray to learn that whatever plan he may have worked out in 1998 didn't work.

Not a reason to walk away of kill yourself either.

 

[Betty P]

Then why was that not revealed? Further, why wait 6 1/2 years.

It was kind of obvious why it had to wait so long. People at Penn State kept resisting LE and covering it up. My impression is that Ray wanted to pursue charges against Sandusky after personally hearing him confess to the boy's mother that he molested him in the shower. But Ray was told he shouldn't bring charges. It's possible he investigated any new information that came up. Due to the sensitive nature, he may have handled it himself.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

It was kind of obvious why it had to wait so long. People at Penn State kept resisting LE and covering it up. My impression is that Ray wanted to pursue charges against Sandusky after personally hearing him confess to the boy's mother that he molested him in the shower. But Ray was told he shouldn't bring charges. It's possible he investigated any new information that came up. Due to the sensitive nature, he may have handled it himself.

RFG never investigated anything on his own. He did not have the resources to do it. That is the problem with the entire Sandusky theory.

 

[Betty P]

RFG never investigated anything on his own. He did not have the resources to do it. That is the problem with the entire Sandusky theory.

He did in the case of the victim whose mother was the first to report. He met with the mother and her son. He devised a plan whereby the mother would get Sandusky to come to her home to explain what he did with her son in the shower room. Ray Gricar and LE went into another room and listened while the mother confronted Sandusky. He confessed.

Ray Gricar mystery: 2012 story examines Gricar’s fiercely private life, ladies’ man reputation

Writer Sara Ganim three years ago used the anniversary of the Centre County prosecutor's disappearance to focus on the women that were a significant part of his life.

www.pennlive.com

The recording on Ray's dictaphone mentioned above took place in 1998. He and others were still meeting with the sports dept folks.

Schreffler talked about the call from accuser No. 6's mother in 1998, saying that her son had been in a shower with a staff member at Penn State. He asked her to bring her son in to police, and her son told them about being in the shower.

Schreffler said, "He was very laid back and the mother was agitated." Schreffler also said that he found out that a friend of accuser No. 6 had also been in a shower, so he contacted Children and Youth Services.

The witness said police and then-District Attorney Ray Gricar set up Sandusky. They had him go to the mother's house, and they listened in.

Schreffler said, "Myself and investigator Ralph Ralston from State College were hiding in the restroom and bedroom and attempted to hear the conversation. After that, there was another plan to make another call to get Sandusky back to the house."

Day 4: More Sandusky accusers testify

For the second day in a row, Jerry Sandusky's own words were used against him in court.

www.wgal.com

 

[J. J. in Phila]

He did in the case of the victim whose mother was the first to report. He met with the mother and her son. He devised a plan whereby the mother would get Sandusky to come to her home to explain what he did with her son in the shower room. Ray Gricar and LE went into another room and listened while the mother confronted Sandusky. He confessed.

Ray Gricar mystery: 2012 story examines Gricar’s fiercely private life, ladies’ man reputation

Writer Sara Ganim three years ago used the anniversary of the Centre County prosecutor's disappearance to focus on the women that were a significant part of his life.

www.pennlive.com

The recording on Ray's dictaphone mentioned above took place in 1998. He and others were still meeting with the sports dept folks.

According to Scheffler, he came up with the plan. RFG was not even there. SCPD Officer Ralston was.

The meeting may not have been about Sandusky. It may have been about the person they would be meeting.

 

[Betty P]

According to Scheffler, he came up with the plan. RFG was not even there. SCPD Officer Ralston was.

The meeting may not have been about Sandusky. It may have been about the person they would be meeting.

The other link I posted states Ray came up with the plan. He was not LE but he was involved with the investigation. They were successful in getting a confession from Sandusky.

We know everyone in that county was afraid of causing problems
for Penn State. If Ray wanted to continue asking questions, he probably knew he would have to do so outside the system.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

The other link I posted states Ray came up with the plan. He was not LE but he was involved with the investigation. They were successful in getting a confession from Sandusky.

We know everyone in that county was afraid of causing problems
for Penn State. If Ray wanted to continue asking questions, he probably knew he would have to do so outside the system.

Scheffler was there. You had a few people, Buehner in particular, saying, after the account of the sting was published, **That sounds like something Ray would do," but they were not there.

There was no, "outside the system" for RFG. He relied on LE for doing anything like that. BTW, in most of these counties, that is how the DA's Office works.

 

[Betty P]

Scheffler was there. You had a few people, Buehner in particular, saying, after the account of the sting was published, **That sounds like something Ray would do," but they were not there.

There was no, "outside the system" for RFG. He relied on LE for doing anything like that. BTW, in most of these counties, that is how the DA's Office works.

So they had Sandusky observed apologizing to the mother of his victim for molesting him in the shower, but there was no reason to indict? Even though Sandusky admitted doing it? These were all the facts that later came to light that left a nation shaking its head in disbelief that Sandusky was allowed to continue abusing kids for so many years. Its not in question that the system wasn't working when it came to Sandusky. Penn State shares a lot of the blame, but local LE and prosecutors are also complicit. That's established fact.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

So they had Sandusky observed apologizing to the mother of his victim for molesting him in the shower, but there was no reason to indict? Even though Sandusky admitted doing it? These were all the facts that later came to light that left a nation shaking its head in disbelief that Sandusky was allowed to continue abusing kids for so many years. Its not in question that the system wasn't working when it came to Sandusky. Penn State shares a lot of the blame, but local LE and prosecutors are also complicit. That's established fact.

That is not an accurate characterization. Neither Sandausky, nor Victim 6, claimed molestation. Sandusky was charged and convicted of "unlawful contact with a minor."

Othere than the PSU police handling the case, this incident did not involve PSU so far as has been revealed.

 

[Betty P]

That is not an accurate characterization. Neither Sandausky, nor Victim 6, claimed molestation. Sandusky was charged and convicted of "unlawful contact with a minor."

Othere than the PSU police handling the case, this incident did not involve PSU so far as has been revealed.

The activities he engaged in with Victim 6 would be considered a form of molestation by most juries - naked in the shower with the boy, rubbing on him, squeezing and hugging him from behind, soaping up his body. Yeah. Victim 6 said once Sandusky lifted him up he "blacked out" can't recall what happened. Sandusky admitted to those actions.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

The activities he engaged in with Victim 6 would be considered a form of molestation by most juries - naked in the shower with the boy, rubbing on him, squeezing and hugging him from behind, soaping up his body. Yeah. Victim 6 said once Sandusky lifted him up he "blacked out" can't recall what happened. Sandusky admitted to those actions.

It does not meet the definition of most charges. In relation to the same victim, Sandusky was acquitted of the charge "Indecent Assault." It did not meet the legal definition: Section 3126 - Title 18 - CRIMES AND OFFENSES It was necessary to show that it was "for the purpose of arousing sexual desire in the person or the complainant."

I actually wrote a blog on that after he was charged and indicated that that I thought Sandusky would not be convicted on that charge, but would on the other three.

 

[DeeperSecrets]

That is not an accurate characterization. Neither Sandausky, nor Victim 6, claimed molestation. Sandusky was charged and convicted of "unlawful contact with a minor."

Othere than the PSU police handling the case, this incident did not involve PSU so far as has been revealed.

What was PSU paying Seasock for post-1998?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

What was PSU paying Seasock for post-1998?

I do not believe so. Please go to the Sandusky section for these types of questions.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I took some information from the police reports and updated the timeline for 4/15/05. It is below.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Friday, 4/15/05

6:00-8:15 AM: RFG gets up, but tells PEF he is going to "play hooky." PEF gets ready for work, leaves RFG a note stating to call her if he cannot let the dog, Honey, out. RFG asleep when she goes to work.

10:31 PM: Contractor, calls house and speaks to RFG about some repairs to the house.

11:00-11:30: Lawyer sees RFG driving on Route 144 driving toward Centre Hall.

11:12 AM: RFG calls Courthouse (through the switchboard) and is connected to his office. PEF, covering the phone for another clerical worker, answers. RFG sounds a bit startled, according to PEF. RFG says he is one Route 192, heading toward Lewisburg, and cannot let Honey out.


11:30-11:35: County worker sees RFG turning from Route 144 on to Route 192. He was driving very fast.

2:00 PM, Employees at the Packwood House Museum (Ms. Kelley, Ms. Snyder), and at least one other people saw RFG park the Mini across the street (Water Street). He got out and sat on a park bench. He appeared to carrying something. Mini not there as of 4:00 PM

2:50 PM, Grant Fisher, while driving along Water Street, sees the Mini in the Street of Shops parking lot, one car width from the bushes.

[c. 3:00 PM Carolyn Fenton (then clerking for Judge David Grine) reported seeing RFG in a "metallic colored car" behind the Centre County Courthouse in Bellefonte. Judge Grine also remembers seeing RFG there, but cannot remember if it was on 4/14 or 4/15.

As previously noted, the area is covered by security cameras. Gricar did not show up on the tape (though Fenton did). It is possible that RFG was not at the spot where Fenton remembers him, but was along the street, out of camera range.]

3:45-4:00 PM Carry Walker, while walking her dog along Water Street, may hay seen RFG drive past.

4:00-5:00 PM Donald Houser heading south on Route 15 sees RFG pull in beside him at a traffic light near the Country Cupboard. (This is "McKnight's Witness.") Houser, who was active in Republican politics in the area, recognized RFG at the time.

4:10 PM Chtristina Lehman saw a red Mini Cooper with a male driver heading west on Route 192 and the corner of Route 192 and Route 15

5:30-6:30 PM At least two people see RFG moving the Mini in the parking lot across from the Street of Shops (SoS) in Lewisburg.

6:00-8:00 PM Store owner in the SoS, Brad Alvey, reported seeing RFG. At least two witnesses report seeing RFG in the SoS with the "Mystery Woman." That may or may not include Alvey.

11:36 PM PEF calls the Bellefonte Police Department (BPD), after repeated efforts to call RFG's cell phone go unanswered. BPD also call and leave messages of his voicemail.

After consulting with then BPD Chief Duane Dixon, BPD issued a BOLA on the Mini and RFG (this might have occurred after midnight).

 

[J. J. in Phila]

My observations:

1. RFG was west of Centre Hall, between Bellefonte and Centre Hall when he called PEF.

2. RFG was likely around the intersection of 15 and 192 around 4:00 PM

3. It is hugely likely that the Fenton sighting was the wrong day or was not of RFG.