PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, former district attorney, Bellefonte, 15 Apr 2005 - #17

[Black Diamond]

My observations:

1. RFG was west of Centre Hall, between Bellefonte and Centre Hall when he called PEF.

2. RFG was likely around the intersection of 15 and 192 around 4:00 PM

3. It is hugely likely that the Fenton sighting was the wrong day or was not of RFG.

Based on that timeline I agree with your observations.

I would add: 4. Based on the number of sightings it is almost certain Ray was in and very nearby Lewisburg the whole time between 2:00 PM and 6:00 PM minimum, and very likely between 1:00 PM and 7:00 PM. 5. Based on no sightings, it’s unlikely he was out in public view in Lewisburg after 8 or 9 PM.

I don’t recall the Grant Fisher sighting being discussed on here before. Was that parking spot the same spot that the mini was found in the next night or a different one?

 

[Black Diamond]

4-6 hours is a long time to be fiddling around in Lewisburg doing nothing specific.

If you’re trying to walk off and disappear why do you need to be moving all around Lewisburg for 4-6 hours? Any reasonably smart guy could come up with a better diversionary tactic than that.

Mystery woman being with him during the last credible sightings is notable as well.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I don’t recall the Grant Fisher sighting being discussed on here before. Was that parking spot the same spot that the mini was found in the next night or a different one?

Snipped only for emphasis.

It was found in the next to the last spot, so it is possible that the other three witnesses were wrong. Or RFG parked it there, drove and parked it in the same place. Or that it was another Mini; there wre at least two other Minis in the area that day, including one on River Road later in the afternoon.

It is not within the released police report, but RFG was seen moving the Mini in the parking lot later in the day.

 

[Black Diamond]

I don’t know what to think of the mystery woman sightings. I would like to hear opinions from others on the mystery woman. We’re the sightings credible enough to call evidence? Was she just a stranger in casual small talk discussion with Ray, not even in association with Ray, or there with Ray. There to lure Ray into his demise or ready to fly away with Ray somewhere to live happily ever after?

 

[Black Diamond]

Snipped only for emphasis.

It was found in the next to the last spot, so it is possible that the other three witnesses were wrong. Or RFG parked it there, drove and parked it in the same place. Or that it was another Mini; there wre at least two other Minis in the area that day, including one on River Road later in the afternoon.

It is not within the released police report, but RFG was seen moving the Mini in the parking lot later in the day.

Way too unlikely that 2 different red mini coopers were both in that little parking lot at different times on the same day in 2005 when there were hardly any of those cars in existence.

Seems he was in and out of that parking lot numerous times that day. The last person to drive the mini drove it into that lot also, Ray or not.

Which leads us to: if the car was parked the same way when it was found on April 16 as the sightings saw it on April 15 multiple times, we can assume Ray left it in its final resting spot. If it was parked differently, there’s a much higher chance someone else parked it there the last time.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I don’t know what to think of the mystery woman sightings. I would like to hear opinions from others on the mystery woman. We’re the sightings credible enough to call evidence? Was she just a stranger in casual small talk discussion with Ray, not even in association with Ray, or there with Ray. There to lure Ray into his demise or ready to fly away with Ray somewhere to live happily ever after?

Lehman may have seen a passenger, but did not know the gender.

The Mystery Woman was seen in the SoS. They seemed to be talking to each other, but not holding hands or anything.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Way too unlikely that 2 different red mini coopers were both in that little parking lot at different times on the same day in 2005 when there were hardly any of those cars in existence.

Seems he was in and out of that parking lot numerous times that day. The last person to drive the mini drove it into that lot also, Ray or not.

I agree with you on the odds. The people at the Packwood House, about two blocks away from the SoS, noted that RFG moved the Mini into a different spot. There are only 3 spots there.

 

[Black Diamond]

Across from the packwood house is 3 spots, on street parking. Across from the SOS is a lot, maybe 20 spaces, off street. I’m more interested in the lot across from SOS.

 

[Black Diamond]

The spots across from packwood are only a 80 yards from the shore next to where the laptop was found. Playing the odds again, ODDS ARE the laptop was pitched in the river from the shore, accessed on foot from a parking spot in front of the packwood house, between 1:00-3:30 pm on April 15, 2005, by Ray Gricar himself.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Across from the packwood house is 3 spots, on street parking. Across from the SOS is a lot, maybe 20 spaces, off street. I’m more interested in the lot across from SOS.

Yes in the lot, I'd guess 18 to 26 spaces.

Even when there were only three spaces along the street (Water Street) RFG was moving the car.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

The spots across from packwood are only a few hundred yards from where the laptop was found. Playing the odds again, ODDS ARE the laptop was pitched in the river from the shore, accessed on foot from a parking spot in front of the packwood house, between 1:00-3:30 pm on April 15, 2005, by Ray Gricar himself.

The distance was too far to toss the laptop itself from the park, 350-425 feet. Also there were trees in the way.

Where RFG was seen, however, was about 50 feet from were the drive was tossed. He was also said to be "looking at the river," so he might have been in the exact spot where the drive was tossed.

All thinks considered, I think it is very likely RFG tossed the drive on the afternoon of 4/15/05.

 

[Black Diamond]

I don’t follow you. Where do you think he tossed it from? The river shore just upstream of the bridge over the Susquehanna is 80 yards from the parking spots on street in front of packwood house.

 

[Black Diamond]

Anybody know if Ray was a Freemason by chance?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Anybody know if Ray was a Freemason by chance?

He wasn't.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I don’t follow you. Where do you think he tossed it from? The river shore just upstream of the bridge over the Susquehanna is 80 yards from the parking spots on street in front of packwood house.

The laptop was found next to a middle support on the bridge.

The drive was found in the water less than 20 yards from the shore in the park.

 

[Black Diamond]

The laptop was found next to a middle support on the bridge.

The drive was found in the water less than 20 yards from the shore in the park.

Interesting. Is that out of the case file?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Interesting. Is that out of the case file?

No, Tony Gricar. He has been wrong before, but I have read accounts where it was near the support.

It is physically possible for someone driving a Mini Cooper, going slowly or stopped, to have tossed the laptop from the bridge and have it end up where it did.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

If I did this right, here is a photo of the bridge taken from the spot along the bank where the drive was likely tossed. The laptop was by the support pillar on the left, partially obscured by trees.

 

[Betty P]

My observations:

1. RFG was west of Centre Hall, between Bellefonte and Centre Hall when he called PEF.

2. RFG was likely around the intersection of 15 and 192 around 4:00 PM

3. It is hugely likely that the Fenton sighting was the wrong day or was not of RFG.

I agree WRT RFG's friends who see him around Bellefonte, etc. after he was seen in Lewisburg. Time frame is impossible.

Lewisburg witnesses seeing him there in or with his car are probably most reliable since: 1) The car was unusual and noticeable and 2) Ray was recognized by some of these people; 3) His car and possessions were found there 4) He told other reliable sources he was going there that day

 

[Black Diamond]

4) He told other reliable sources he was going there that day

I believe the only source was Patty, and it’s questionable if Ray specifically mentioned Lewisburg to her when he called her at the courthouse that morning. I would not call her reliable either, for several reasons, primarily since she is a potential suspect in his disappearance.

Regardless of that, I agree with you, it’s nearly impossible that he was in Bellefonte between 1:30 PM and 7:00 PM because of the other reasons.