GUILTY PA - Timothy Piazza, 19, Dies In Penn State Frat Hazing, 2 Feb 2017 *arrests*

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TMAN2014 said:
I was never in a frat, but my older brother was a frat President. It is not my cup of tea what goes on in their initiations. I find no value in such cruelty, as some means of bonding. At some point, some of these leaders of these organizations have to show some common sense. I am not going to go as far as banning all frats over one group's terrible misjudgements, but my God, time to wake up! These guys should fry.
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And so I have to wonder.........if the purpose of a Frat is to give a boost to career networking, then the nasty, violent hazing may be the training ground for our future CEO's, community leaders, physicians, pilots, and politicians!

Oh joy (not). Mysogyny, Sadism, Harassment, Abuse, Apathy. Alcoholism.
Me thinks there are far reaching aftershocks from this party Frat-life; even those that don't reach the consequences of death.
 
Good Morning America's Robin kept asking the question which is on everyone's minds: "why didn't you call 911? You even checked his pulse so you must have known he was in dire straits."

He stuck to his story so much that he didn't even listen to what she was asking. I think we will see a lot of this.

My God she looked as upset as we all feel about this. And that's saying something.
 
ATasteOfHoney said:
And so I have to wonder.........if the purpose of a Frat is to give a boost to career networking, then the nasty, violent hazing may be the training ground for our future CEO's, community leaders, physicians, pilots, and politicians!

Oh joy (not). Mysogyny, Sadism, Harassment, Abuse, Apathy. Alcoholism.
Me thinks there are far reaching aftershocks from this party Frat-life; even those that don't reach the consequences of death.
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Sadly this is what I was thinking as well. The whole fraternity thing is nothing but the devil in sheep's clothing, IMO. I know, our son was in one. :cry:
 
SMH. Fraternities are not like what is being described in this thread. Some of you have twisted imaginations.

Fraternity life primarily involves guys looking to have something fun to do, competing in intramural sports, occasional volunteer work as needed, trying to build the coolest homecoming float, attending sporting events to cheer on your school's team, scheduling of mixers with sororities, and making sure your fraternity members who chose to run won their position in the student government.

These are organizations who's sole purpose is to have a positive influence in the lives of the young men who gain membership.
 
Samaritan said:
SMH. Fraternities are not like what is being described in this thread. Some of you have twisted imaginations.

Fraternity life primarily involves guys looking to have something fun to do, competing in intramural sports, occasional volunteer work as needed, trying to build the coolest homecoming float, attending sporting events to cheer on your school's team, scheduling of mixers with sororities, and making sure your fraternity members who chose to run won their position in the student government.

These are organizations who's sole purpose is to have a positive influence in the lives of the young men who gain membership.
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In the D1 school I attended, there was a bit of what you described, and a whole lot more of the binge drinking, hazing, date rape, hierarchy, etc. Fraternities were routinely in the news for the out of control behaviors, and there were a couple of frat party deaths during my time at school. I don't think what's in this thread is imagination, as evidenced in the links provided. Stories like this one are hardly new, this just happens to be a more extreme case and tragedy.

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I don't think that it is healthy for young testosterone charged men to have these societies. They too often exhibit the behaviour of dogs in a pack.
 
Sadly, these boys (and yeah, they seem like boys! Not even legal drinking age) only did that night what was probably done to them. That's how they learned this behavior. And when no one dies for years and years, it just becomes part of the fun- to get overly drunk, slap someone who is passed out, and have a good laugh about it the next day. But this guy didn't make it to the next day. I think it was probably even beyond their comprehension that someone would die. It's looked just like that millions of times and everyone woke up.

It's beyond heartbreaking. Not only the drinking and the lack of awareness of when things have crossed the line from fun to dangerous, but also the cycle of torture and mistreatment. It has gone on for so long that once they get through it, they feel honored to dish it out to the next pledge class. This world needs less acceptance of behavior that displays a lack of respect and more building up and supporting each other. Even when the brother did try to support, he was over powered both physically and emotionally. He will never forgive himself, and hopefully one day he will. And he will fight to change what has been accepted and normal for far too long.

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Thank you for the kind words and thoughts regarding my nephew. As mentioned, all of my nephews pledged Pike. Let us perform a case study on them, shall we? Each of them are under age 40. All four married college graduates.

1. The injured nephew currently owns a highly successful company. Of note, when in prep school, he was beaten, and held down, in a parking lot for his new tennis shoes and wallet. He lived a clean life so Pike was an eye opener that has served him well in discerning friends and contacts, who to trust and who to avoid. Little to no alcohol usage. Quite possibly, the kindest of them all.

2. This nephew took the injured one, his cousin, to the ER. I doubt he has ever made an enemy. This charismatic nephew served as a Page to a US Senator (also a Pike) one summer. He is highly successful (earns fabulous trips) as well as an avid cyclist. But, he drinks a little. He put the P in party.

3. He reluctantly left Pike before graduation only because he was a serious student in the demanding mechanical engineering dept. He was recruited before graduation by a well-known car racing corporation. He also obtained his real estate license and opened a RE business. No alcohol consumption since leaving Pike. He is the most shy.

4. The youngest, and under 30yo, is his own man. Fiercely independent. He left Pike after the first year by telling them to just send him invitations to their parties when sororities were attending. He currently owns a lucrative business and several classic vehicles that he restored. No drinking after marriage. He is the most naturally talented one.

In this study of Four Frat Boys, only one of four continues to drink. He is also the only one of the four who doesn't own a business.
Two out of four stayed in the fraternity until graduation.
Nephew 1 has the most business contacts.
Nephews 2 and 4 have the most friends.
Nephews 1 and 4 own the most fabulous homes with no mortgages attached.
Nephews 2 and 4 are the best Chefs.
Only Nephew 3's wife is a stay at home mom.
None of the four have used drugs, including weed. That is French for grass.
 
Oh, so four nephews escaped and became great citizens? What are you saying about the one who did not escape? And what are you saying about the about the ones who have bigly. greatly homes with no mortgages attached? What does that mean? And was the the nephew who died somehow not as rich and famous as the ones who are still alive? I am not sure what you are about here, boasting about your other nephews who who managed to live/
 
DeDee said:
Thank you for the kind words and thoughts regarding my nephew. As mentioned, all of my nephews pledged Pike. Let us perform a case study on them, shall we? Each of them are under age 40. All four married college graduates.

1. The injured nephew currently owns a highly successful company. Of note, when in prep school, he was beaten, and held down, in a parking lot for his new tennis shoes and wallet. He lived a clean life so Pike was an eye opener that has served him well in discerning friends and contacts, who to trust and who to avoid. Little to no alcohol usage. Quite possibly, the kindest of them all.

2. This nephew took the injured one, his cousin, to the ER. I doubt he has ever made an enemy. This charismatic nephew served as a Page to a US Senator (also a Pike) one summer. He is highly successful (earns fabulous trips) as well as an avid cyclist. But, he drinks a little. He put the P in party.

3. He reluctantly left Pike before graduation only because he was a serious student in the demanding mechanical engineering dept. He was recruited before graduation by a well-known car racing corporation. He also obtained his real estate license and opened a RE business. No alcohol consumption since leaving Pike. He is the most shy.

4. The youngest, and under 30yo, is his own man. Fiercely independent. He left Pike after the first year by telling them to just send him invitations to their parties when sororities were attending. He currently owns a lucrative business and several classic vehicles that he restored. No drinking after marriage. He is the most naturally talented one.

In this study of Four Frat Boys, only one of four continues to drink. He is also the only one of the four who doesn't own a business.
Two out of four stayed in the fraternity until graduation.
Nephew 1 has the most business contacts.
Nephews 2 and 4 have the most friends.
Nephews 1 and 4 own the most fabulous homes with no mortgages attached.
Nephews 2 and 4 are the best Chefs.
Only Nephew 3's wife is a stay at home mom.
None of the four have used drugs, including weed. That is French for grass.
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Thanks for your post but in lieu of a demographic, socioeconomic response/study, I feel it would be interesting to see how they felt about this recent hazing event in a *conversation*. Maybe it would be too painful or trigger?
More of a psychological, emotional response. A more intimate approach, perhaps? I wonder if you could ask them?

I'm not being snarky or contrarian--really would love to know.....sincerely.
 
DeDee said:
Thank you for the kind words and thoughts regarding my nephew. As mentioned, all of my nephews pledged Pike. Let us perform a case study on them, shall we? Each of them are under age 40. All four married college graduates.

1. The injured nephew currently owns a highly successful company. Of note, when in prep school, he was beaten, and held down, in a parking lot for his new tennis shoes and wallet. He lived a clean life so Pike was an eye opener that has served him well in discerning friends and contacts, who to trust and who to avoid. Little to no alcohol usage. Quite possibly, the kindest of them all.

2. This nephew took the injured one, his cousin, to the ER. I doubt he has ever made an enemy. This charismatic nephew served as a Page to a US Senator (also a Pike) one summer. He is highly successful (earns fabulous trips) as well as an avid cyclist. But, he drinks a little. He put the P in party.

3. He reluctantly left Pike before graduation only because he was a serious student in the demanding mechanical engineering dept. He was recruited before graduation by a well-known car racing corporation. He also obtained his real estate license and opened a RE business. No alcohol consumption since leaving Pike. He is the most shy.

4. The youngest, and under 30yo, is his own man. Fiercely independent. He left Pike after the first year by telling them to just send him invitations to their parties when sororities were attending. He currently owns a lucrative business and several classic vehicles that he restored. No drinking after marriage. He is the most naturally talented one.

In this study of Four Frat Boys, only one of four continues to drink. He is also the only one of the four who doesn't own a business.
Two out of four stayed in the fraternity until graduation.
Nephew 1 has the most business contacts.
Nephews 2 and 4 have the most friends.
Nephews 1 and 4 own the most fabulous homes with no mortgages attached.
Nephews 2 and 4 are the best Chefs.
Only Nephew 3's wife is a stay at home mom.
None of the four have used drugs, including weed. That is French for grass.
Click to expand...

Everyone has a definition of success. Your example is one fraternity. Below is an excellent article from Rolling Stone (2013).
http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/the-most-out-of-control-fraternities-in-america-20130828

This article is also rather awakening:
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015/04/15/how-widespread-are-issues-facing-fraternities
 
Jennifer17 said:
Oh, so four nephews escaped and became great citizens? What are you saying about the one who did not escape? And what are you saying about the about the ones who have bigly. greatly homes with no mortgages attached? What does that mean? And was the the nephew who died somehow not as rich and famous as the ones who are still alive? I am not sure what you are about here, boasting about your other nephews who who managed to live/
Click to expand...

Oh, my. It was not my intention to be braggadocious. My sincere apologies if it appeared to be so.

None of my nephews died. One was severely injured during a horrifying hazing incident. None of them are famous; nor are they seeking fame. I was not bloviating. It was written to dispel misconceptions.

Not all Frat Boys are bad. Most enter the workforce to enjoy splendid careers. The same can be said about university students who do not pledge to a fraternity.
Some guys quickly discover that fraternities are not the lifestyle for them; thereby, cutting ties.
Fraternities do not produce sociopaths.
Fraternities do not produce alcoholics.
Fraternities ingrain loyalty that carries past graduation. Loyalty is one reason most fraternal members have many friends and business contacts post-graduation.

ATasteOfHoney ~ It goes without saying that all of the nephews would feel outrage toward the hazing participants and deep sorrow for the death of an innocent named Timothy Piazza. None of them would condone the criminal behavior, just as we do not.

Also, the words used in post # 103 appear to be inflammatory by insinuating fraternal brothers are filled with
"Mysogyny, Sadism, Harassment, Abuse, Apathy. Alcoholism."
Click to expand...
My unscientific study proves that is just not the case.

Jennifer17 said:
And what are you saying about the about the ones who have bigly. greatly homes with no mortgages attached? What does that mean?
Click to expand...

It means they work their fingers to the bone attempting to achieve the American Dream. They work. They work six days a week. They work from sun up to sundown and longer. No one gives them anything that they do not earn on their own. However, there is complete understanding for choosing the word bigly.

I read the alarming GJ report to find myself mortified and far too distraught to read the related articles, at this time. It is my opinion that the others who were involved that fateful evening may have been too drunk to understand the danger Timothy's life was in. They will pay the price for their flawed thinking and outlandish behaviors.
https://localtvwnep.files.wordpress...sentment-of-charges-against-beta-theta-pi.pdf

This post is only my opinion, which is subject to change, at any given point in time.
 
mpnola said:
Sadly, these boys (and yeah, they seem like boys! Not even legal drinking age) only did that night what was probably done to them. That's how they learned this behavior. And when no one dies for years and years, it just becomes part of the fun- to get overly drunk, slap someone who is passed out, and have a good laugh about it the next day. But this guy didn't make it to the next day. I think it was probably even beyond their comprehension that someone would die. It's looked just like that millions of times and everyone woke up.

It's beyond heartbreaking. Not only the drinking and the lack of awareness of when things have crossed the line from fun to dangerous, but also the cycle of torture and mistreatment. It has gone on for so long that once they get through it, they feel honored to dish it out to the next pledge class. This world needs less acceptance of behavior that displays a lack of respect and more building up and supporting each other. Even when the brother did try to support, he was over powered both physically and emotionally. He will never forgive himself, and hopefully one day he will. And he will fight to change what has been accepted and normal for far too long.

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Click to expand...
Well said.

And I'd like to add that while I want to see these kids pay for what they did, I'm heartbroken for them too. I think some of these guys should serve time in jail. They absolutely need to pay the consequences, and I truly worry about them getting off like we saw with the Stanford rapist.

I'm sad for them because I don't think 18 of these guys are evil murderers. I think they are young and stupid, just like most people are at that age. I also think a lot of factors went in to their TERRIBLE decisions that night, like the fact that each of them probably survived similar nights, wanting to fit in, self preservation and fear. I think it's tragic that they will live with this on their shoulders forever. But they should still be held responsible!!!

And Timothy. Ugh. My heart breaks for him, and what he went through in his final hours. Also the pain his family is most likely experiencing. What a nightmare.

I had a friend from junior high and high school who died on a fraternity drinking trip. He was the "nice" guy if all the "jocks". Everyone loved him because he was so kind, but the other guys also teased him a lot (in a loving way) because he was such a sweetheart. Sadly, he was caught up in the fraternity binge drinking and had a fatal accident and died later in the hospital.

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My step son who I considered my son, ...died at a fraternity initiation "party." He drowned. No one helped or called until it was too late. He was 20. It was ruled "an accident." It was off campus property.
 
frisson said:
My step son who I considered my son, ...died at a fraternity initiation "party." He drowned. No one helped or called until it was too late. He was 20. It was ruled "an accident." It was off campus property.
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I'm so sorry frisson.
 
frisson said:
My step son who I considered my son, ...died at a fraternity initiation "party." He drowned. No one helped or called until it was too late. He was 20. It was ruled "an accident." It was off campus property.
Click to expand...

so sorry to hear this... so young, all of them.

it must be difficult to read about what happened here. I don't do smilies, but sending you virtual hugs anyway.
 
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