GUILTY PA - Timothy Piazza, 19, Dies In Penn State Frat Hazing, 2 Feb 2017 *arrests*

[zencompass]

It take all kind eh? Well, sorry, I think people should be held accountable for their own actions. I value freedom, and we lose more freedoms every day with our oppressive government, telling us what we can eat, drink, etc. My point is you blame the people who did the crime, not everyone else. What is you have a good fraternity somewhere, who can handle responsilibilty? What beef do you have against them? Are we not accountable for our own actions? Why do you we need you do-gooders to just ban everything that you don't like? No thank you. The people who did this particular crime are the problem, NOT ALL FRATERNITIES. As for hazing, well you might be right, but when you join, you know what you are getting into (except this case). When I say let people make their decisions about whether to join fraternities (as opposed to banning all of them), I don't know how that gets twisted and equal to condoning drunk driving. Just crazy.

Now have fun and twist what I said. Let me state again, the Penn State people should fry, just so we are crystal clear. My post is about all the other people who are blameless, who you want to ban.

I agree with you that people should be held accountable for their own actions. Do you feel that hazing should be banned everywhere??

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[Blondie in Spokane]

Texts suggest Penn State students were made to do elephant walk while holding pledges' penises during obscene frat initiation preceding teenager's death as eight more brothers are indicted

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4489420/Penn-State-pledges-elephant-walk.html#ixzz4gdctJ9HT

 

[kaen]

Why would young men and young women agree to be sexually abused and terrorized to join a fraternity?

 

[zencompass]

So, because one group at Penn State showed no responsibility, now we just ban all fraternities? Well fine, I disagree. I don't equate the actions of a few misguided people to everyone. You have many responsible people too, who you falsely labeled and paint with a broad brush. Sorry, I cannot equate every fraternity with drunk driving. That really is a slap in the face to good people in fraternities.

Do you want to barn sororities too? Any other private organizations? The FOP? AOH? Sons of Italy? Do you paint other organizations with a broad brush too, or just all fraternities, because of this bad organization at Penn State?

Let me state again, the Penn State people should fry.

You make great points.

The question is : can we separate (and throw away) hazing from fraternities?

I was equating hazing with drunk driving.

My apologies for not making myself clear.

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[kaen]

Most fraternities and sororities have guidelines prohibiting hazing but it done with a wink and nod. So, some fraternities/sororotoes continue to haze

 

[zencompass]

Most fraternities and sororities have guidelines prohibiting hazing but it done with a wink and nod. So, some fraternities/sororotoes continue to haze

I would like to see hazing in the same light as drunk driving. Socially repulsive and leading to criminal charges.

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[neesaki]

Texts suggest Penn State students were made to do elephant walk while holding pledges' penises during obscene frat initiation preceding teenager's death as eight more brothers are indicted

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4489420/Penn-State-pledges-elephant-walk.html#ixzz4gdctJ9HT

Disgusting, vulgar, cruel and barbaric. I don't think I can read this stuff anymore, it makes me ill. These fraternities are nothing close to what they were created to be, back in the day. The leaders are nothing more than playground bullies but more dangerous. And the perversion and sadistic gang mentality is a disgrace to their predecessors and the intended purpose of these organizations.

As far as I'm concerned they should be classified as gangs because IMO that's all they are.

My son was in a fraternity, and after so much abuse he and several others finally, and thankfully dropped out. Two weeks later one of their frat brothers died of alcohol poisoning, he was 19 years old. He was a very sweet young man, he just wanted to impress and please everyone, so for that he sacrificed his life. :tears:

 

[DatelineFan]

So, because one group at Penn State showed no responsibility, now we just ban all fraternities? Well fine, I disagree. I don't equate the actions of a few misguided people to everyone. You have many responsible people too, who you falsely labeled and paint with a broad brush. Sorry, I cannot equate every fraternity with drunk driving. That really is a slap in the face to good people in fraternities.

Do you want to barn sororities too? Any other private organizations? The FOP? AOH? Sons of Italy? Do you paint other organizations with a broad brush too, or just all fraternities, because of this bad organization at Penn State?

Let me state again, the Penn State people should fry.

This is not only Penn State. I think what you are missing here, is that these types of situations are common, and they are not new at all. This isolated incident is, IMO, more widely reported because of Timothy's death and the overwhelming evidence, such as the text messages and video footage. Certainly not every fraternity member in the country is shady. However, the binge drinking, rapes, drugs, hazing and cover-ups are rampant in Greek Life on campuses all over the country. I think what many of us are trying to say is that the risks far outweigh the benefits of these groups.

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[DatelineFan]

Why would young men and young women agree to be sexually abused and terrorized to join a fraternity?

I think these kids want to be accepted. I doubt they expect these things will happen, but when placed in the situation, they don't want to be the "wimp" who backed out or couldn't handle it. Let me be clear that this is not how I view it, but I think at that age there's a lot going on for young people. They are in transition from living at home to having all this freedom, faced with decisions about their future, and probably feelings of pressure about a lot of things. They're vulnerable.

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[Trino]

Aside from the sexual behavior, illegal alcohol use, and disregard for human life, I think there should be definite anger toward Tim B, as an adult, university employee, and adviser to the fraternity. Unbelievable that all this went on while he was shuttered in his room, supposedly unaware of alcohol use and behavior by those he was "advising." He should be held accountable.

 

[zencompass]

I've discovered websites of Hank Nuwer, an anti-hazing investigative writer.

This paragraph is from page 29 of one of his books (The Hazing Reader):

"Members of cults and of hazing Greek groups alike are extremists who try to justify actions outside the range of normal human behavior. Members of the one-true family -be they Greeks or cultists -veer away from conventional moral standards; they tolerate members who perform illicit or even illegal acts behind closed doors. Like cults, many Greek groups encourage near-delusional feelings of invincibility, fail to heed an individual member's moral qualms, in the interest of the group unanimity, put a newcomer in harm's way, with seeming disregard for that person's well-being, and, after a dangerous or fatal accident, deny that they have erred, even in the face of clear evidence to the contrary.


https://books.google.ca/books?id=kc...emselves in harms way in fraternities&f=false

 

[zencompass]

HazingPreventionOrg 2015 Report includes the following:

Hank Nuwer Anti-Hazing
Hero Award Winners

Lianne Kowiak
Lianne dedicates part of her time to hazing prevention after her
son Harrison lost his life tragically to hazing in 2008 at the age
of 19 when pledging to a fraternity in his sophomore year in college.

Andrew Jordan Fischette
While an undergraduate, Mr. Fischette along with fraternity
headquarters staff and university professional staff, came
forward during his pledging process and stood up to put an end
to 20+ years of very risky hazing behavior that was masked as
‘tradition’.

Hillary Holt
After experiencing serious hazing Ms. Holt knew her life was
spared so that she could be the voice for those who have
lost their lives. Hillary’s current project is building a nonprofit
organization on campus by the name of SHINE- Stop Hazing In
Nations Everywhere.



http://hazingprevention.org/wp-content/uploads/HPO_Annual_Report_2016B.pdf

 

[zencompass]

Hank Nuwer has created online platforms for discussions about hazing. I read that his first investigative article on this subject was published in 1978.

From his biography:

"Hank Nuwer is a writer and social critic whose specialty is the topic of hazing as an international human rights abuse issue and USA high school and campus safety issue. His first investigative story on hazing appeared in 1978 for Human Behavior Magazine, including his ground breaking interview on hazing as a form of Groupthink conducted with Groupthink theorist Irving Janis of Yale University."

http://www.hanknuwer.com/biography/

 

[zencompass]

Dear Bluesneakers,

I can't thank you enough for starting this thread. It is an extremely sad and tragic topic and because you have initiated this thread, we are able to discuss this while supporting each other.

You are such a wonderful and integral part of Websleuths and I've always had great appreciation for your posts.

Thank you.

 

[zencompass]

If I could take away some of the heartbreak from the victims' loved ones I surely would. These stories have touched my heart so deeply.

I have such great appreciation for everyone on this thread. Your compassion is limitless and your kindness is in each of your messages.

 

[DatelineFan]

Dear Bluesneakers,

I can't thank you enough for starting this thread. It is an extremely sad and tragic topic and because you have initiated this thread, we are able to discuss this while supporting each other.

You are such a wonderful and integral part of Websleuths and I've always had great appreciation for your posts.

Thank you.

I agree! Thanks, Blue! I have so much respect for you, my friend!

Zencompass, isn't it great that we all have each other? Even though not everyone agrees, we can share our heartache.

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[zencompass]

Dear DatelineFan,

It is so wonderful that we all have each other.

I am grateful for Websleuths for providing a safe and supportive platform where we can express our sorrows and support one another.

With quite a few of you on this thread I have already experienced your compassion, kindness and insight on other threads. Now I have met more of you!

How uplifting it is to discover the multitude of positive, compassionate individuals on this site. This alone lifts my heart.

 

[Samaritan]

So, while we're painting with such a broad brush and ignoring any sort of personal responsibility or holding those in charge of raising these fellows responsible, who here thinks we should do away with all the pitbulls?

I could link dozens of stories on how they've fatally attacked young innocent people. Would this fall under your "Civic duty"?

 

[zencompass]

From Bluesneaker's initial post

"Piazza fell down a long set of steps that night, and fell several other times, injuring his head, Miller said. The next morning he fell down the same steps a second time, and was unconscious when help was finally summoned. Piazza, from Lebanon, N.J., died Feb. 4 at Hershey Medical Center."

I hadn't realized at first that Timothy fell down the basement steps twice. He was carried upstairs each time by different groups of students.

Surveillance video at 10:47 p.m. showed Piazza being carried upstairs by four fraternity brothers; in the video, his body appeared limp, his eyes were closed, he appeared unconscious, and a bruise was visible on his side.


"At about 10 a.m., fraternity members found the 19-year-old in the basement lying on his back, breathing heavily and with blood on his face. One brother said Piazza's eyes were half open and he felt cold. Three men carried Piazza's unconscious body upstairs and placed him back on the couch. Surveillance footage showed brothers shaking him and trying to prop him up."


http://abc7ny.com/news/timeline-in-horrific-penn-state-fraternity-death/1976101/

 

[bluesneakers]

SMH. Fraternities are not like what is being described in this thread. Some of you have twisted imaginations.

Fraternity life primarily involves guys looking to have something fun to do, competing in intramural sports, occasional volunteer work as needed, trying to build the coolest homecoming float, attending sporting events to cheer on your school's team, scheduling of mixers with sororities, and making sure your fraternity members who chose to run won their position in the student government.

These are organizations who's sole purpose is to have a positive influence in the lives of the young men who gain membership.

'Universities and Fraternities Must Tell the Whole Truth' About Sexual Violence

In fall 2010, there were between three and 10 allegations (the actual number remains guesswork) of women being raped at the University of Minnesota. At least three of those women alleged being raped in fraternity houses. The school lists the sanctions it imposed against fraternities on its website but sanctions issued during that time period are for the group’s failure to “provide a safe environment during parties where alcohol is present.” Rape was never mentioned.

They’ve also blocked our efforts to obtain their analysis of alcohol-free housing (AFH), which one study concludes would reduce incidents of injury and death in fraternities by 75%. Those statistics will likely demonstrate that requiring fraternities to go AFH will spare many women from being plied with alcohol and raped.

Every Time a Fraternity or Sorority Got in Trouble This Year
A Timeline of Allegations
Hazing / Alchohol or drugs / Sexual misconduct / Property damage/Mischief Death / Offensive behavior / Intimidation / Unspecified