GUILTY PA - Timothy Piazza, 19, Dies In Penn State Frat Hazing, 2 Feb 2017 *arrests*

[ninij9]

My step son who I considered my son, ...died at a fraternity initiation "party." He drowned. No one helped or called until it was too late. He was 20. It was ruled "an accident." It was off campus property.

[emoji257] [emoji176] I'm so sorry for your tragic loss. This hurts my heart for you.

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[Blondie in Spokane]

My step son who I considered my son, ...died at a fraternity initiation "party." He drowned. No one helped or called until it was too late. He was 20. It was ruled "an accident." It was off campus property.

Oh frisson....this makes me so sad. I am so very sorry, it's just so unfair.

 

[ninij9]

I really want to see some adults charged in this tragedy. How can a university such a Penn State support and condone a fraternity, for it's mostly minor aged charges, then bear no responsibility when these frat houses perform hazings (which they damn well know about) and a fatality occurs? What, boys will be boys? I've heard that before plenty. I wish the parents that fund their children's educations would stop allowing their children to join these madhouses. Their child can be hazed, raped or worse, die in an accident. Or their child can be caught up and charged with a crime, ruining their life. I know I'm speaking in broad generalities here, but I'm so sick of hearing about these alcohol poisonings.

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[kaen]

I think it is important to remember that unless under the age of 18, the participants at many of these events are adults in the eyes of the law. They may not be of legal age to drink but that is another thing all together.

Colleges and universities are in a horrible position. They cannot step in too much on non-college property because they would be seen a liable and most of these institutions would then be the deep pockets for lawsuits and may be criminally culpable. In an institution of 1000, no administration could provide the oversight necessary to lessen liability, let alone an institution of 10k. Colleges can and should figure out ways to distance themselves from Greek Life because they can't impact these institutions--- and the institutions gain access to students through the college.

As I sent my child off to college this year, I realized that my child was going from an environment where there were many eyes and ears to provide feedback into a society where there was very little. Even the dorms, which had professional oversight had little. So, I went into my teacher/websleuth/former college student mode and thought of all that needed to be discussed prior to drop off. The college had a drug/alcohol and sexual assault awareness course so I took the transition education from where they left off. We discussed no means no. I even talked about the dead men in the river after a night of drinking phenomenon--- never leave a drunk friend, make a pact about keeping together, fully charged phone before a night out, know where you are going, beware of the stranger who becomes your best friend buying drinks within an evening, don't take a mixed drink from anyone but a waiter/waitress/bartender. Who knew that 18 year olds leaving home need this knowledge? Well, I think we all should be providing that education to our kids because we know they are young, doe-eyed, and not as worldly as they think.

I am so sorry for the loss of this young man's life and the loss of Frisson's son. .

 

[zencompass]

Dear Frisson,

I, too, am very sorry to hear of your loss. It hurts my heart to hear this.

 

[zencompass]

I really want to see some adults charged in this tragedy. How can a university such a Penn State support and condone a fraternity, for it's mostly minor aged charges, then bear no responsibility when these frat houses perform hazings (which they damn well know about) and a fatality occurs? What, boys will be boys? I've heard that before plenty. I wish the parents that fund their children's educations would stop allowing their children to join these madhouses. Their child can be hazed, raped or worse, die in an accident. Or their child can be caught up and charged with a crime, ruining their life. I know I'm speaking in broad generalities here, but I'm so sick of hearing about these alcohol poisonings.

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I agree and we likely will see at least one adult charged - Tim Bream.

The University needs to be sued as well as the actual fraternity.

Millions are donated towards these fraternities and universities each year by Alumni. Even the upkeep of the "mansion -type" fraternity houses at Penn U. must be very expensive.

I am counting on this case to truly make a difference and set a precedent for fraternities.

Something must be done to prevent the next hazing death.

 

[TMAN2014]

3

And so I have to wonder.........if the purpose of a Frat is to give a boost to career networking, then the nasty, violent hazing may be the training ground for our future CEO's, community leaders, physicians, pilots, and politicians!

Oh joy (not). Mysogyny, Sadism, Harassment, Abuse, Apathy. Alcoholism.
Me thinks there are far reaching aftershocks from this party Frat-life; even those that don't reach the consequences of death.

Well, like I said, I never joined one, and it isn't my cup of tea. I will let others make their own judgement on the value of joining a fraternity. I prefer not to tell others how to live their life.

 

[frisson]

3

Well, like I said, I never joined one, and it isn't my cup of tea. I will let others make their own judgement on the value of joining a fraternity. I prefer not to tell others how to live their life.

Wow. I don't want to tell anyone how to live their life either; but when they take another person's life with torture, whipping, humiliation and alcohol poisoning, and pushing an inebriated person in a pool that is a different story to me. "Accident" The cruelty is unfathomable to me.

 

[lizzyblueyez]

My step son who I considered my son, ...died at a fraternity initiation "party." He drowned. No one helped or called until it was too late. He was 20. It was ruled "an accident." It was off campus property.

So sorry, I graduated in 2002 and I still remember how some of the guys were behaving that were in some of the fraternities, and if someone got hurt or too drunk or even broke the law- it was a whole lot of secrecy surrounding the situations..

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[frisson]

So sorry, I graduated in 2002 and I still remember how some of the guys were behaving that were in some of the fraternities, and if someone got hurt or too drunk or even broke the law- it was a whole lot of secrecy surrounding the situations..

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I understand the secrecy. (Don't agree with it.) But how can someone watch another human die? How can someone stand there and do nothing? Call 911.... something..... Who raised these people?

 

[zencompass]

3

Well, like I said, I never joined one, and it isn't my cup of tea. I will let others make their own judgement on the value of joining a fraternity. I prefer not to tell others how to live their life.

Our opinions differ quite a bit.

Your statement reminds me of what people used to say about drunk driving.

"I just mind my own business. I don't tell anyone what to do. If they want to drive drunk that's their decision!

I will always speak up about something that is hazardous -especially for young people! It's my civic duty.

 

[zencompass]

I understand the secrecy. (Don't agree with it.) But how can someone watch another human die? How can someone stand there and do nothing? Call 911.... something..... Who raised these people?

Dear Frisson,

I will never, in a million years, understand why. None of us will. I don't think we (on this thread) are even capable of searching for a reason because we know it doesn't exist.

Saddens my heart. All of this makes me hope and pray that this case makes a difference. The D.A. is amazing, the evidence that the police gathered is solid, the video (that the students couldn't decide whether or not to erase) tells the story. There appears to be all of the ingredients needed for a very successful trial.

My heart aches for this family and every other one that has suffered such a tremendous loss.

 

[MaryG12]

DatelineFan and Frisson, I am so sorry for your losses.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

3

Well, like I said, I never joined one, and it isn't my cup of tea. I will let others make their own judgement on the value of joining a fraternity. I prefer not to tell others how to live their life.

Well......it takes all kinds, man.
But we do come here to post our opinions.....it's sorta' the point.
I leave it up to the Law/Courts to "tell people how to live their lives" and I think they're going to speak loudly on this very soon indeed.

 

[Trino]

I agree and we likely will see at least one adult charged - Tim Bream.

The University needs to be sued as well as the actual fraternity.

Millions are donated towards these fraternities and universities each year by Alumni. Even the upkeep of the "mansion -type" fraternity houses at Penn U. must be very expensive.

I am counting on this case to truly make a difference and set a precedent for fraternities.

Something must be done to prevent the next hazing death.

Couldn't agree more.

"The grand jury report said conduct in a "permissive atmosphere fostered by the Pennsylvania State University Interfraternity Council" led to Piazza's death. It goes on to say that the "grand jury has chosen to develop a full report concerning the conduct of the Pennsylvania State University Interfraternity Council and, perhaps, the conduct of the university itself."

Source: CNN (w/o video not possible to source)

 

[TMAN2014]

Wow. I don't want to tell anyone how to live their life either; but when they take another person's life with torture, whipping, humiliation and alcohol poisoning, and pushing an inebriated person in a pool that is a different story to me. "Accident" The cruelty is unfathomable to me.

Let's back up a bit. I already stated the culprits in the Penn State case should fry, so I don't understand your post. My post was about my not being a fraternity fan personally, but I am not for outlawing all of them. There are some responsible people in fraternities too, who did not kill anyone. I don't paint broad brushes, and condemn others for the acts of the real culprits. If you assign blame to people who did not do a crime (other NON PENN STATE FRATERNITIES WHO HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS CASE), then I disagree with your painting this heinous case as a broad brush on other responsible people. We are responsible for your own actions.

 

[TMAN2014]

Our opinions differ quite a bit.

Your statement reminds me of what people used to say about drunk driving.

"I just mind my own business. I don't tell anyone what to do. If they want to drive drunk that's their decision!

I will always speak up about something that is hazardous -especially for young people! It's my civic duty.

So, because one group at Penn State showed no responsibility, now we just ban all fraternities? Well fine, I disagree. I don't equate the actions of a few misguided people to everyone. You have many responsible people too, who you falsely labeled and paint with a broad brush. Sorry, I cannot equate every fraternity with drunk driving. That really is a slap in the face to good people in fraternities.

Do you want to barn sororities too? Any other private organizations? The FOP? AOH? Sons of Italy? Do you paint other organizations with a broad brush too, or just all fraternities, because of this bad organization at Penn State?

Let me state again, the Penn State people should fry.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

I think the problem doesn't apply necessarily to fraternities per se but to the **hazing** initiations that some take on.

Moo

 

[bluesneakers]

Delete. Wrong thread.

 

[TMAN2014]

Well......it takes all kinds, man.
But we do come here to post our opinions.....it's sorta' the point.
I leave it up to the Law/Courts to "tell people how to live their lives" and I think they're going to speak loudly on this very soon indeed.

It take all kind eh? Well, sorry, I think people should be held accountable for their own actions. I value freedom, and we lose more freedoms every day with our oppressive government, telling us what we can eat, drink, etc. My point is you blame the people who did the crime, not everyone else. What is you have a good fraternity somewhere, who can handle responsilibilty? What beef do you have against them? Are we not accountable for our own actions? Why do you we need you do-gooders to just ban everything that you don't like? No thank you. The people who did this particular crime are the problem, NOT ALL FRATERNITIES. As for hazing, well you might be right, but when you join, you know what you are getting into (except this case). When I say let people make their decisions about whether to join fraternities (as opposed to banning all of them), I don't know how that gets twisted and equal to condoning drunk driving. Just crazy.

Now have fun and twist what I said. Let me state again, the Penn State people should fry, just so we are crystal clear. My post is about all the other people who are blameless, who you want to ban.