icedtea4me
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Well, believe it or not, some kids are better at processing and executing mathematical operations than they are at decoding written words. Funny, huh?
Patsy Ramsey
- Thread starter ginzy
- Start date
Well, believe it or not, some kids are better at processing and executing mathematical operations than they are at decoding written words. Funny, huh?
eileenhawkeye
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Maybe the names were in cursive, and that's why jbr needed help? I don't think it is unbelievable that she was good in math but struggled with reading...that's true for a lot of people or vice versa.
pukasonqo2
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such a pretty little girl, maybe i am putting way too much into this but, to me, she has sad eyes
i actually like the pic of her and PR together, looks natural, just mum and daughter...no pageants, no make up
i actually like the pic of her and PR together, looks natural, just mum and daughter...no pageants, no make up
Sheesh! The woman pulled her daughter on her lap for a hug.
The way you guys carry on, anyone would think she had her hands around the child's throat!!
For God's sake, rex, look how tightly she's holding her. And right in the same spot.
singularity
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This is why I could never truly jump on board with those who claim they are innocent. Murderers or not, that was a very dysfunctional family that needed to be placed under a microscope.
CorallaroC
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One tiny detail I overlooked for many years, was the fact that BR had an aquarium with (presumably) pet fish in it. It was rarely mentioned, in fact now (in 2015) I can only find 2 references to it. Makes me feel a little sad for BR, because his fish would surely been important to him.
We know that JBR's dog Jacques had been sent to the Barnhill's and was not in the house the night of the murder. Seems reasonable that PR made sure the dog would be taken care of during the holiday trips to Charlevoix and Big Red Boat. But, PR as "the mother", I would have expected her to make arrangements for BR's fish to be cared for while the family was gone. LHP was scheduled to come to the house on 27th - but what about after that? Do we even know when the R's were originally planning to return to Boulder after their trips?
Being wintertime, I would think it would have been difficult to transfer the fish to a fish tank set up at a friend's house, without a great deal of effort and necessary care transporting them. Was a friend given a key to come feed the fish while family was gone? Just common sense questions which have lingered in my mind.... especially after reading this archived Boulder News Sept 1997 article stating that journalists were allowed in the house and report seeing a fish tank (WITH FISH) in BR's room. And we know the R's never returned to that house after the murder.
ok quotes below:
http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/1997/09/11-1.html
(snip)
Ramseys open up to press
By CLAY EVANS
Camera Staff Writer
Thursday, September 11, 1997
As the investigation into the slaying of 6-year-old JonBenet Ramsey marches through its ninth month, the Ramsey family has slowly opened their lives to more scrutiny by press and public.
Patsy Ramsey, the girl's mother, appeared on the television show "American Journal" and called Larry King's CNN talk show last week; the family agreed to allow the case to be featured on the TV program "America's Most Wanted."
Wednesday night, television journalist Diane Sawyer broadcast a tour of the Ramsey home granted her by a family representative.
The layout, condition and atmosphere of the family's spacious University Hill home are among the peripheral aspects of the case since JonBenet was discovered strangled in the basement on the afternoon of Dec. 26.
Despite efforts by the family and its representatives to keep press and public out of the house (now unoccupied and on the market), there have been breaches in security."
... "Earlier this summer, two Ramsey family representatives agreed to show a Daily Camera reporter through the house, on the condition that the information not be printed until a later date. This week, following revelations that Sawyer would show the home on "Prime Time Live," the Daily Camera was given permission to publish a rough description of the house. Many of the family's personal effects, including a fish tank containing fish belonging to JonBenet's 10-year-old brother Burke Ramsey."
------
then this quote said to be from the official interview of Lou Smit and JR:
7 LOU SMIT: Now let's think throughout the
8 night. I know you probably thought that a 100
9 times. Did you hear anything throughout the night?
10 JOHN RAMSEY: No. Not a thing.
11 LOU SMIT: Let's talk about the sounds in your
12 house. Have you ever been wakened by your children
13 before at night?
14 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't recall I ever have been.
15 They would sometimes they would come in the bed
16 with us. But I don't remember ever being awakened
17 by a noise or (INAUDIBLE).
18 LOU SMIT: Would either JonBenet or would
19 Burke ever cry out in their sleep if they had bad
20 dreams?
21 JOHN RAMSEY: I remember Burke used to talk
22 in his sleep. But crying out, no, I don't remember
23 that.
24 LOU SMIT: Could you ever hear Burke talk
25 in
0119
1 his sleep?
2 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't remember, no.
3 LOU SMIT: In Burke's room, does he have an
4 aquarium?
5 JOHN RAMSEY: Yes.
6 LOU SMIT: Can you describe any noises that
7 that makes?
8 JOHN RAMSEY: It just has a normal pump. It
9 was (INAUDIBLE), it's not particularly noisy.
10 LOU SMIT: How about, in almost every house,
11 especially my house, did you ever hear noises
12 associated with (INAUDIBLE) home noises? Can you
13 remember anything, maybe not that particular night
14 but any other night?
15 JOHN RAMSEY: I really can't. I mean we hear
16 noises from -- when we hear noises, it was
17 typically from outdoors from students.
18 LOU SMIT: You can hear that from your room?
19 JOHN RAMSEY: We always slept with the windows
20 open.
21 LOU SMIT: How did you sleep that night with
22 your windows open?
23 JOHN RAMSEY: Probably cracked. I always
24 liked to have the window open. But it was winter
25 night so we cracked it probably.
~~~~
We know that JBR's dog Jacques had been sent to the Barnhill's and was not in the house the night of the murder. Seems reasonable that PR made sure the dog would be taken care of during the holiday trips to Charlevoix and Big Red Boat. But, PR as "the mother", I would have expected her to make arrangements for BR's fish to be cared for while the family was gone. LHP was scheduled to come to the house on 27th - but what about after that? Do we even know when the R's were originally planning to return to Boulder after their trips?
Being wintertime, I would think it would have been difficult to transfer the fish to a fish tank set up at a friend's house, without a great deal of effort and necessary care transporting them. Was a friend given a key to come feed the fish while family was gone? Just common sense questions which have lingered in my mind.... especially after reading this archived Boulder News Sept 1997 article stating that journalists were allowed in the house and report seeing a fish tank (WITH FISH) in BR's room. And we know the R's never returned to that house after the murder.
ok quotes below:
http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/1997/09/11-1.html
(snip)
Ramseys open up to press
By CLAY EVANS
Camera Staff Writer
Thursday, September 11, 1997
As the investigation into the slaying of 6-year-old JonBenet Ramsey marches through its ninth month, the Ramsey family has slowly opened their lives to more scrutiny by press and public.
Patsy Ramsey, the girl's mother, appeared on the television show "American Journal" and called Larry King's CNN talk show last week; the family agreed to allow the case to be featured on the TV program "America's Most Wanted."
Wednesday night, television journalist Diane Sawyer broadcast a tour of the Ramsey home granted her by a family representative.
The layout, condition and atmosphere of the family's spacious University Hill home are among the peripheral aspects of the case since JonBenet was discovered strangled in the basement on the afternoon of Dec. 26.
Despite efforts by the family and its representatives to keep press and public out of the house (now unoccupied and on the market), there have been breaches in security."
... "Earlier this summer, two Ramsey family representatives agreed to show a Daily Camera reporter through the house, on the condition that the information not be printed until a later date. This week, following revelations that Sawyer would show the home on "Prime Time Live," the Daily Camera was given permission to publish a rough description of the house. Many of the family's personal effects, including a fish tank containing fish belonging to JonBenet's 10-year-old brother Burke Ramsey."
------
then this quote said to be from the official interview of Lou Smit and JR:
7 LOU SMIT: Now let's think throughout the
8 night. I know you probably thought that a 100
9 times. Did you hear anything throughout the night?
10 JOHN RAMSEY: No. Not a thing.
11 LOU SMIT: Let's talk about the sounds in your
12 house. Have you ever been wakened by your children
13 before at night?
14 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't recall I ever have been.
15 They would sometimes they would come in the bed
16 with us. But I don't remember ever being awakened
17 by a noise or (INAUDIBLE).
18 LOU SMIT: Would either JonBenet or would
19 Burke ever cry out in their sleep if they had bad
20 dreams?
21 JOHN RAMSEY: I remember Burke used to talk
22 in his sleep. But crying out, no, I don't remember
23 that.
24 LOU SMIT: Could you ever hear Burke talk
25 in
0119
1 his sleep?
2 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't remember, no.
3 LOU SMIT: In Burke's room, does he have an
4 aquarium?
5 JOHN RAMSEY: Yes.
6 LOU SMIT: Can you describe any noises that
7 that makes?
8 JOHN RAMSEY: It just has a normal pump. It
9 was (INAUDIBLE), it's not particularly noisy.
10 LOU SMIT: How about, in almost every house,
11 especially my house, did you ever hear noises
12 associated with (INAUDIBLE) home noises? Can you
13 remember anything, maybe not that particular night
14 but any other night?
15 JOHN RAMSEY: I really can't. I mean we hear
16 noises from -- when we hear noises, it was
17 typically from outdoors from students.
18 LOU SMIT: You can hear that from your room?
19 JOHN RAMSEY: We always slept with the windows
20 open.
21 LOU SMIT: How did you sleep that night with
22 your windows open?
23 JOHN RAMSEY: Probably cracked. I always
24 liked to have the window open. But it was winter
25 night so we cracked it probably.
~~~~
CorallaroC
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Hey All,
I was sorta hoping others would chime in with their thoughts about BR's fish tank. Is this an old subject that was discussed- to- death long ago and I just missed out? Surely it's not just me who wonders about that small fact. Would anyone be willing to weigh in with their thoughts or theory?
Maybe I placed my post and links/sources in the wrong thread and was not noticed? My thinking is that PR would have done all she could to make "arrangements" for her son's fish as she did for JBR's little dog.
Furthermore, if months AFTER THE MURDER when reporters are allowed into the home, how can it be that they report seeing FISH in a fishtank???? If the fish had died shortly after the murder, they would have been decomposed long before reporters claimed to have seen/found them. I just don't get it!
And yes, I do think this small fact could have something to do with the murder, in some way. Maybe it was part of an argument or contentious feelings the night before leaving on an extended trip?
Sometimes small things matter, especially to children. JMO
I would really like hearing thoughts from other members who are well versed in this case
I was sorta hoping others would chime in with their thoughts about BR's fish tank. Is this an old subject that was discussed- to- death long ago and I just missed out? Surely it's not just me who wonders about that small fact. Would anyone be willing to weigh in with their thoughts or theory?
Maybe I placed my post and links/sources in the wrong thread and was not noticed? My thinking is that PR would have done all she could to make "arrangements" for her son's fish as she did for JBR's little dog.
Furthermore, if months AFTER THE MURDER when reporters are allowed into the home, how can it be that they report seeing FISH in a fishtank???? If the fish had died shortly after the murder, they would have been decomposed long before reporters claimed to have seen/found them. I just don't get it!
And yes, I do think this small fact could have something to do with the murder, in some way. Maybe it was part of an argument or contentious feelings the night before leaving on an extended trip?
Sometimes small things matter, especially to children. JMO
I would really like hearing thoughts from other members who are well versed in this case
Aynia
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Hey All,
I was sorta hoping others would chime in with their thoughts about BR's fish tank. Is this an old subject that was discussed- to- death long ago and I just missed out? Surely it's not just me who wonders about that small fact. Would anyone be willing to weigh in with their thoughts or theory?
Maybe I placed my post and links/sources in the wrong thread and was not noticed? My thinking is that PR would have done all she could to make "arrangements" for her son's fish as she did for JBR's little dog.
Furthermore, if months AFTER THE MURDER when reporters are allowed into the home, how can it be that they report seeing FISH in a fishtank???? If the fish had died shortly after the murder, they would have been decomposed long before reporters claimed to have seen/found them. I just don't get it!
And yes, I do think this small fact could have something to do with the murder, in some way. Maybe it was part of an argument or contentious feelings the night before leaving on an extended trip?
Sometimes small things matter, especially to children. JMO
I would really like hearing thoughts from other members who are well versed in this case
I'm going to answer because I'm a fish fanatic :happydance:
I found this news piece :
http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/1997/09/11-1.html
(year 1997)
Not knowing what size/type/equipment the aquarium was and had, it's hard to say how long a fish would survive withouth food or cleaning. But not that long for sure so someone was feeding it (either every couple of days or with vacation tablets( that can last up to 15 days). And all those months, again not knowing what kind of fish tank it was , it would need a good cleaning at least once.
I don't think leaving the fish for going on vacation would be a problem since he never returned to the house and at least in 6 months left it there and didn't retrieve it so I don't think he cared much about it. (sorry I'm a fish lover I'm about to go on vacation for a week and I'm panicking just for thinking I won't see mine for so long :tantrum: )
So I assume Patsy or someone arranged for the fish to be cared of.
Aynia
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With normal food fish he needed to be fed at least every couple of days. And even if it was a very well equipped aquarium (water filter ) it had to be cleaned at least once. And have some water added of course as it evaporates.
Sorry, that's fish me talking too much .
sent from my mobile using tapatalk
I believe it was their housekeeper that said that the Ramsey's loved things until they became a burden, like their dog. I'll bet the farm that after the first week, when Burke probably tired of them, the responsibility of feeding and cleaning those fish was probably shifted to the hired help. I'm sure that the Ramseys would have had someone going to the house to make sure everything was looked after and that the mail was picked up, feeding the fish was probably a part of that task.
Just because she holds her daughter tightly means nothing. I believe J.B. was an independent child, very outgoing. There were probably times when her Mother probably had to say we are going over here or something. My son was that way, had to pull him away, would talk forever to anybody, other person couldn't get away. He is older now and still does that at times, only now his wife has to drag him away. lol
All kids are that way, promise, promise, promise that they will take care of pet. A month later, you find yourself feeding and watering the pet.
I wasn't talking about the kids, I was referring to the parents. It was Patsy's idea to get the dog. When it became inconvenient it went to the neighbors.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This is something I have never understood. There has never been even the slightest bit of evidence or proof that any kind of 'stun gun' had anything at all to do with this case. Nothing whatsoever-but it's still hanging around. We use stun guns out here all the time to move stubborn cows from here to there. They are called shock sticks. And they hurt even through the thick hide of a cow and leave spots that smoke from the voltage. A shock stick would put a person on the ground and put burn type ligatures in several places-the point of impact and the area that went to contact.
A stun gun to control, or inhibit someone, is total madness. It causes the opposite effect by pain and evokes anger and rapid movement along with violent expression-by crying out.
FrankieB
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Just discovered this list thanks to Otg. I am shocked...many questions. Just something I would like to understand first...these incidents can't be dated, however they were all present when LE analyzed the house? Is that correct? Was there really so much fecal matter all over that house? Were these people immune to the smell and sight of such? Re: the items of clothing. This is a bit confusing, were they stained or smeared? Two very different things. I'm struggling to imagine how all these incidents went unnoticed by the Ramseys to such extent they just left them there??
singularity
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This is a really long thread. If doing nothing but reading this specific thread, would probably take a week to get through it all. I was reading random pages throughout.
Has anyone ever compiled all the info regarding Patsy and her various prescriptions and pill habits? As I've mentioned before, I am starting to think Patsy was addicted to pills. I know she is asked about it in the interviews but was wondering if there's more that I have not seen on this subject.
An addict withdrawing from xanax, ativan, and especially pain pills can cause all sorts of problems, including severe mood swings.
I'm going to post a few sections of the transcipt dealing with the issue of medication.
TOM HANEY: Did you take additional medication last night?
PATSY RAMSEY: I took 10 milligrams of Prozac, and I actually took some pain medication for my
ear, Excedrin for an ear ache.
TOM HANEY: How about this morning?
PATSY RAMSEY: 20 milligrams of Prozac.
TOM HANEY: Anything else?
PATSY RAMSEY: A half milligram of Adivan (phonetic).
-----
Obviously they are talking about what medication she took before doing this specific interview. While she may be correct about Excedrin, a cancer patient(even one in remission) would have access to much stronger pain pills.
TOM HANEY: Well, I'm not obviously up on all of this, but I do know a few years ago my wife was
going through some period of time where she was a little short, abrupt or irritable, and as a result, she did have some hormonal medication subsequently and that kind of saw it through.
PATSY RAMSEY: No. I never had any hormonal stuff.
TOM HANEY: Has anything come up with mood swings? Did the doctors talk to you about that, the
possibility of it or --
PATSY RAMSEY: No.
TOM HANEY: Have you experienced any of that?
PATSY RAMSEY: No, I have not, not prior to this tragedy.
TOM HANEY: How about since?
PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.
TOM HANEY: You can give me an idea of what might bring something on, the mood swing like that, or
how severe it might be.
PATSY RAMSEY: Well, for a long time, and just like yesterday, we went into the conference room.
I looked out the window and there was a little girl with blond hair and shorts and it looked like JonBenet from the back, and I just get really sad and still crying, you know. I miss her.
TOM HANEY: Do you get unexplained mood swings or were you -- reactions.
PATSY RAMSEY: You know, if I am sad it is because of that, I lost my precious child, you know. Nothing else.
TOM HANEY: Let's continue on.
-----
Even they are wondering if a mood swing took place that night. She wasn't grilled hard enough on the subject.
Now this exchange I find very interesting......
TRIP DEMUTH: Did Dr. Booth used to normally prescribe you medications? Did he ever prescribe
medications for you?
PATSY RAMSEY: I think he did. I mean, he is the children's pediatrician. He, I believe, prescribed
something for me immediately the day that we discovered JonBenet.
TRIP DEMUTH: Had he done that before that?
PATSY RAMSEY: No.
---------
I always thought it odd that Jonbenet's pediatrician would even be at the scene. He is NOT Patsy's doctor.....it isn't his job to be prescribing(or giving) her pills under any circumstances. She even states he had not done this before. Why this sudden need to have her doctor at the scene? Is it because she was in withdrawals the night before? She clearly wasn't going through them that day as she spent hours on end sedated and basically not moving. Where is her doctor and why hasn't HE been called? Is it because her own doctor isn't going to refill her prescriptions early so she has to use this doctor to get her meds?
THis is common among people addicted to pills.....I doubt it would be any different in the midst of a murder/kidnapping scenario....especially if the main suspect has a history of taking pills and might be in dire need of some.
I noticed you got some flack for this post. I believe it. I have much prior experience personally with pills and other users, and this sounds like she was possibly loaded on Oxy during this scene at the theater/driveway and in many of her TV appearances, she appears to be on benzos(xanax, ativan, valium, klonopin, etc.).
Has anyone ever compiled all the info regarding Patsy and her various prescriptions and pill habits? As I've mentioned before, I am starting to think Patsy was addicted to pills. I know she is asked about it in the interviews but was wondering if there's more that I have not seen on this subject.
An addict withdrawing from xanax, ativan, and especially pain pills can cause all sorts of problems, including severe mood swings.
I'm going to post a few sections of the transcipt dealing with the issue of medication.
TOM HANEY: Did you take additional medication last night?
PATSY RAMSEY: I took 10 milligrams of Prozac, and I actually took some pain medication for my
ear, Excedrin for an ear ache.
TOM HANEY: How about this morning?
PATSY RAMSEY: 20 milligrams of Prozac.
TOM HANEY: Anything else?
PATSY RAMSEY: A half milligram of Adivan (phonetic).
-----
Obviously they are talking about what medication she took before doing this specific interview. While she may be correct about Excedrin, a cancer patient(even one in remission) would have access to much stronger pain pills.
TOM HANEY: Well, I'm not obviously up on all of this, but I do know a few years ago my wife was
going through some period of time where she was a little short, abrupt or irritable, and as a result, she did have some hormonal medication subsequently and that kind of saw it through.
PATSY RAMSEY: No. I never had any hormonal stuff.
TOM HANEY: Has anything come up with mood swings? Did the doctors talk to you about that, the
possibility of it or --
PATSY RAMSEY: No.
TOM HANEY: Have you experienced any of that?
PATSY RAMSEY: No, I have not, not prior to this tragedy.
TOM HANEY: How about since?
PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.
TOM HANEY: You can give me an idea of what might bring something on, the mood swing like that, or
how severe it might be.
PATSY RAMSEY: Well, for a long time, and just like yesterday, we went into the conference room.
I looked out the window and there was a little girl with blond hair and shorts and it looked like JonBenet from the back, and I just get really sad and still crying, you know. I miss her.
TOM HANEY: Do you get unexplained mood swings or were you -- reactions.
PATSY RAMSEY: You know, if I am sad it is because of that, I lost my precious child, you know. Nothing else.
TOM HANEY: Let's continue on.
-----
Even they are wondering if a mood swing took place that night. She wasn't grilled hard enough on the subject.
Now this exchange I find very interesting......
TRIP DEMUTH: Did Dr. Booth used to normally prescribe you medications? Did he ever prescribe
medications for you?
PATSY RAMSEY: I think he did. I mean, he is the children's pediatrician. He, I believe, prescribed
something for me immediately the day that we discovered JonBenet.
TRIP DEMUTH: Had he done that before that?
PATSY RAMSEY: No.
---------
I always thought it odd that Jonbenet's pediatrician would even be at the scene. He is NOT Patsy's doctor.....it isn't his job to be prescribing(or giving) her pills under any circumstances. She even states he had not done this before. Why this sudden need to have her doctor at the scene? Is it because she was in withdrawals the night before? She clearly wasn't going through them that day as she spent hours on end sedated and basically not moving. Where is her doctor and why hasn't HE been called? Is it because her own doctor isn't going to refill her prescriptions early so she has to use this doctor to get her meds?
THis is common among people addicted to pills.....I doubt it would be any different in the midst of a murder/kidnapping scenario....especially if the main suspect has a history of taking pills and might be in dire need of some.
I noticed you got some flack for this post. I believe it. I have much prior experience personally with pills and other users, and this sounds like she was possibly loaded on Oxy during this scene at the theater/driveway and in many of her TV appearances, she appears to be on benzos(xanax, ativan, valium, klonopin, etc.).
singularity?
Is she self medicating by doubling the dosage to 20mg?
Isn't the dosage for Prozac supposed to be consistent ?