Penn State Sandusky cover-up: AD arrested, Paterno fired, dies; cover-up charged #8

[StellarsJay]

Thanks, Reader- I should have typed 1998.

 

[Reader]

Thanks, Reader- I should have typed 1998.

Thank you! At first I figured it was 1998 but when it was there 2 times, I started thinking this would be BIG if Spanier knew about another incident and did not report it.

And thank you for the articles on those meetings. It seems Baldwin and Spanier were really downplaying the GJ investigation to the trustees and led them to believe it would not involve the university and would all just go away.

I'm wondering now, why wasn't she fired?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

And thank you for the articles on those meetings. It seems Baldwin and Spanier were really downplaying the GJ investigation to the trustees and led them to believe it would not involve the university and would all just go away.

I'm wondering now, why wasn't she fired?

My guess is that they feel she is well connected. She was a justice on the PA Supreme Court.

 

[Reader]

My guess is that they feel she is well connected. She was a justice on the PA Supreme Court.

I knew that...but why would connections matter when the person is not doing the job they should be for the university?

Spanier was pretty connected also, and then Paterno had been there forever and was very revered in the state...

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I knew that...but why would connections matter when the person is not doing the job they should be for the university?

Spanier was pretty connected also, and then Paterno had been there forever and was very revered in the state...

Neither is as well connected in legal circles.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Amendola back in curt, trying to get the documents: http://www.philly.com/philly/news/b...uskys_attorney_seeks_records_of_accusers.html

 

[Tipstaff]

Amendola back in curt, trying to get the documents: http://www.philly.com/philly/news/b...uskys_attorney_seeks_records_of_accusers.html

The Sandusky/ Amendola plan for JS's defense is going to be put the victims on trial!

My hope is it will come back to bite Sandusky in the butt if these victims had problems AFTER being sexually assaulted by JS. The prosecution team needs to have a firm grasp of what happened to each of the victims after being "mentored" by JS.

 

[pinktoes]

While Patty Fornicola was a victim's advocate in the Centre County DA's office, there was a second victim advocate there. That person had contact with victims following a criminal incident occurring but prior to filing of charges and who served as an advocate in juvenile cases.

Who was that?

(And, yes, I believe my question belongs here, not in the Gricar-disappearance thread. Please humor me for now.)

 

[pinktoes]

IF a CYS case is opened, administrative law re those cases requires all records to be destroyed after 14 months if there's nothing to the charges.

More importantly, if someone actually charged with a crime (sex offense or any other) gets an ARD----all records of all court proceedings are expunged. Remember Christopher Lee and his ARD--given to him by Madeira?

Remember that Madeira is the champion of ARD procedures.

Remember what J Karen Arnold said at her Ladies and Gentlemen site?

"Significant changes occurred at the office fairly quickly following Ray’s disappearance in terms of previously-established policies and guidelines for case dispositions, as well as what was or was not appropriate for ARD disposition.

Ray was also firm about what was/was not appropriate for ARD disposition because completion of the program eliminates all record that the offense ever occurred."

Lance Marshall, later fired--by dragging-his-feet-on-it Madeira (2009) was the ADA in that office in 2005, and for many years. He tried the Vargas shaken-baby case.

Marshall, Madeira, Corbett--all pretty tight. Who else? Who might have been coming down the pipe for investigation in that office, his victim having come to the attention of the juvenile victim's advocate there? And who would have wanted that adult to be protected? At the very least to receive an ARD?

Or, who was already in the works for an ARD, but Ray adamantly opposing?

Did Ray move Patty out of her VA position into the safer clerical position there in order to protect her?

So many questions. So much time.

 

[StellarsJay]

Sounds like three new jobs at Pen State:
Compliance Director, Clery Act Coordinator and a new staff person to deal with security in Intercollegiate Athletics.

http://www.statecollege.com/news/lo...iance-director-clery-act-coordinator-1026875/

Board reorganization:
http://www.statecollege.com/news/lo...rustees-overhaul-committee-structure-1027019/

 

[J. J. in Phila]

While Patty Fornicola was a victim's advocate in the Centre County DA's office, there was a second victim advocate there. That person had contact with victims following a criminal incident occurring but prior to filing of charges and who served as an advocate in juvenile cases.

Who was that?

(And, yes, I believe my question belongs here, not in the Gricar-disappearance thread. Please humor me for now.)

I don't think either was there in 1998. I'm not certain that there was a V/WA position at that point.

From what I'd heard, they generally dealt with witnesses/victims after charges were filed and helped them with getting to court or compensation.

Further, at least according to Arnold (JKA), there was a month between the WVA position being open and Fornicola (PEF) taking it. It wasn't a quick move.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

More importantly, if someone actually charged with a crime (sex offense or any other) gets an ARD----all records of all court proceedings are expunged. Remember Christopher Lee and his ARD--given to him by Madeira?

It depends. Conviction on some is an automatic Megan's List designation, so those would have to be dropped. Some of those related to 1998, would have been, even at the time.

ARD comes out as a result of being found guilt or a plea deal (possibly the latter).

Lance Marshall, later fired--by dragging-his-feet-on-it Madeira (2009) was the ADA in that office in 2005, and for many years. He tried the Vargas shaken-baby case.

Marshall, Madeira, Corbett--all pretty tight.

Marshall was appointed by Gricar and as far as I know, Marshall was not "tight" with Corbett. He had a fairly impressive trial record and from what I've heard, that is why Madeira retained him.

Madeira was however active in the GOP, including serving on the State Committee. He was (unlike Paterno) fairly powerful politically and Corbett needed all the support he could to win the AG nomination in 2004; that included the endorsement of the State Committee. Corbett's support for Madeira in 2005 and 2009 was not unexpected.

 

[pinktoes]

JJ: I read somewhere that Corbett dropped the ball in terms of supporting Madeira in 2009. Know anything about that?

Russell Wantz is another guy who plead to a sex crime when he got caught up in the sting operation. Wantz got an ARD from Marisco in Dauphin County.

Personal opinion here: ARD is inappropriate for sex crime charges involving a child. You get accused of those--you defend yourself at trial. Sorry; no first time offender ARD. And, BTW, after your charges are expunged, exactly how is it determined that you're a first time offender later on, should you offend again? Is the entire state plugged in somehow to a "secret" set of files? The whole nation? Or does the investigator/prosecutor have to trudge thru internet caches like we do to pull up that stuff?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

JJ: I read somewhere that Corbett dropped the ball in terms of supporting Madeira in 2009. Know anything about that?

He endorsed Madeira (MTM). That brought some criticism from the Democratic State Chair (Soles?) because of some of MTM's actions. There was l'affair Marshall and MTM didn't disclose some information in a murder trial (getting a conviction tossed). A laundry list of misrule is here: http://www.centredaily.com/2009/07/01/2396955/the-dueling-press-conferences.html

I think Corbett did as much in 2009 as he did in 2005; he may have helped with fundraising, though Parks-Miller did better. You have to give Corbett credit for loyalty; it was obvious MTM was going to have an uphill battle, but Corbett tried to help him.

As for the rest, the was no possibility for ARD because Sandusky was never charged.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

There is no question that he should have been doing followup with Schultz and Curley. Beyond that, there is not too much more that could be done.

Paterno could have picked up the phone and called anyone in Pennsylvania law enforcement, including the State Police, and they would have picked up the phone and given him advice. He could have called the university attorney or his own attorney. He could have called Sandusky and demanded to know the name and address of the boy who had been in the shower room. Then he could have called that child's parent. He could have called child welfare. What would any normal person do who heard from a subordinate that a child had been raped in the physical space he or she supervises?

And to say as you do later that Paterno had no political clout in PA is mind-boggling. That's like saying Dan Rooney has no political clout. You can't rewrite history, JJ. Had Paterno just been your ordinRy football coach, he would have been "retired" 15 years before Sandusky's scandal came out. He had clout at PSU and all over PA.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Paterno could have picked up the phone and called anyone in Pennsylvania law enforcement, including the State Police, and they would have picked up the phone and given him advice.

He could have called, but said what? "Somebody told me something, but I didn't see it?"

He could have called the university attorney or his own attorney.

Yes, he could have done follow through with Curley, Spanier, etc. That is where I fault him.

He could have called Sandusky and demanded to know the name and address of the boy who had been in the shower room. Then he could have called that child's parent.

Sandusky didn't work for him it the time. He didn't know who the child's parents were.

He could have called child welfare. What would any normal person do who heard from a subordinate that a child had been raped in the physical space he or she supervises?

Child welfare is the same with police; Paterno had no direct knowledge of the incident.

A normal person would report it to his superior, as both policy and as a matter of law. Paterno, however, was someone who had power withing the university. He should have done follow up.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

JJ, read my post: I said that Paterno should have called Sandusky, or better yet, called him into the office and demanded to know the name of the boy. And if Sandusky didn't comply, he could have made it clear to PSU's police that Sandusky could have no access to PSU facilities, even if that meant security guards or whatever.

Are you really saying that Paterno or anyone else would have to SEE the rape before calling police or child welfare? Then Paterno should have had McQueary with him when he reported. This isn't rocket science. A child was raped. The people in power at PSU did nothing to find him or help him or prevent it from happening again.

A normal person would care more about the child who had been raped than about following the chain of command. A normal person would have also have set a proper example for McQueary and all of the other boys and young men with access to that facility. A normal person would have walked over to Sandusky's house and demanded answers. And the key to the football facility. Really.

 

[Concerned Papa]

Paterno could have picked up the phone and called anyone in Pennsylvania law enforcement, including the State Police, and they would have picked up the phone and given him advice. He could have called the university attorney or his own attorney. He could have called Sandusky and demanded to know the name and address of the boy who had been in the shower room. Then he could have called that child's parent. He could have called child welfare. What would any normal person do who heard from a subordinate that a child had been raped in the physical space he or she supervises?

And to say as you do later that Paterno had no political clout in PA is mind-boggling. That's like saying Dan Rooney has no political clout. You can't rewrite history, JJ. Had Paterno just been your ordinRy football coach, he would have been "retired" 15 years before Sandusky's scandal came out. He had clout at PSU and all over PA.

I agree with every word of your post and have posted my similar belief of what could, and should, have been done by Paterno to protect these children as well as the University he worked for.

Originally Posted by Concerned Papa
I respectfully submit that there was MUCH more that Joe Paterno could have, and should have done to protect these children. Starting with calling the local police and working his way all the way to calling the President of The United States, if that's what it took.

I'm betting he had their phone numbers.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Penn State Sandusky scandal: AD arrested, Paterno, Spanier fired; coverup charged #7

Aside from a moral duty to protect those children, Paterno and Penn State, each, had a problem with someone closely tied to their multi million dollar business interests. Why wouldn't he call the State Police or even the President for help?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

JJ, read my post: I said that Paterno should have called Sandusky, or better yet, called him into the office and demanded to know the name of the boy. And if Sandusky didn't comply, he could have made it clear to PSU's police that Sandusky could have no access to PSU facilities, even if that meant security guards or whatever.

Pittsburghgirl, Paterno never had the authority to do any of that. He didn't have the authority to tell Sandusky not to use the facilities.

Are you really saying that Paterno or anyone else would have to SEE the rape before calling police or child welfare?

To be credible, yes. You can't call the police and say, "I heard that Jerry murdered someone or burglarized a house or raped someone, but I didn't see him do it and I don't know who he did it to."

Then Paterno should have had McQueary with him when he reported. This isn't rocket science. A child was raped. The people in power at PSU did nothing to find him or help him or prevent it from happening again.

Which he did do, when he reported it to Curley and Schultz. Paterno didn't see it. He can't tell if McQueary is reporting it accurately. He can only do follow up and say, "Did you investigate?" Now, I agree that he should have done that. I don't know if he would have gotten an honest answer.

You basically expect Paterno to be:

A. Head of every police force in PA.

B. Be able to unilaterally cancel contracts the University made.

C. Be able to determine that McQueary saw what he said he saw.

 

[Reader]

I agree with every word of your post and have posted my similar belief of what could, and should, have been done by Paterno to protect these children as well as the University he worked for.



Aside from a moral duty to protect those children, Paterno and Penn State, each, had a problem with someone closely tied to their multi million dollar business interests. Why wouldn't he call the State Police or even the President for help?

I agree with you and pittsburghgirl and I and others have posted much the same many times...it gets to be like a call and response and nothing changes...the same ol merry-go-round....