Penn State Sandusky scandal: AD arrested, Paterno, Spanier fired; coverup charged #7

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costalpilot said:
with respect, i do not believe that joepa believed "proper" action was taken, although i might, depending on your and joepa's definition of the word.

"proper" in the sense, "will this action protect the powerbase", yes. i agree.

it did that. he probably believed that, to a degree. but i'm sure that sometimes, just every now and then, dark images intruded into the king's thoughts. and he knew, if only for a second (before he pushed them away for a time), that evil had creeped into his house, and that he was responsible for allowing it to grow and fester and thrive.
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Legally, there was nothing more that Paterno could do. Point blank.

What authority he did have, was walking into the Curley's or Schultz's office and demanding that, if something did happen, the authorities, generally the DA's Office, be notified. If that failed, he could talk to Spanier. Now, should he have done those things? Yes. Would they have said that there was nothing wrong or that LE found nothing? Maybe. Maybe that would have made a difference.

That isn't a lot. Paterno was not the de facto head of Penn State, or Centre County. His formal authority over Sandusky didn't exist and even his prestige, great as it was, would not carry the day in the absence of any direct evidence on his part. He couldn't ban Sandusky from the campus because Sandusky was a tenured professor. He couldn't arrest Sandusky because he wasn't a cop. He could prosecute Sandusky, because he wasn't the DA.

I can fault Paterno for doing everything he could, but I can't fault him for doing nothing.
 
J. J. in Phila said:
There I disagree with you. Paterno clearly had the influence to press the matter with the administration, but beyond that point, he had no additional power. He did not press it.

He, wrongly, believed that by reporting it, proper action was taken. He didn't follow up, and he, unlike some of the parties was in a position to follow up. I don't, for example, blame the investigator, who was not in a position to follow up, once the prosecutor said he wouldn't prosecute.



I don't disagree that there was a monetary motive and that the incestuous relationship between the Board and SM was there, but that wasn't Paterno.
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Paterno wasn't part of any monetary motive or incestuous relationship? Did you perhaps miss this picture?

120511-news-paterno-business-2-ss-6.jpg


The partners of Pinnacle Development, builders of the failed multi million dollar Villages at Penn State.

-William Schreyer, Trustee for Penn State University

-Robert Poole, Chairman of The Second Mile Board of Directors

-Joe Paterno, Head Coach of Penn State University
 
J. J. in Phila said:
Legally, there was nothing more that Paterno could do. Point blank.

What authority he did have, was walking into the Curley's or Schultz's office and demanding that, if something did happen, the authorities, generally the DA's Office, be notified. If that failed, he could talk to Spanier. Now, should he have done those things? Yes. Would they have said that there was nothing wrong or that LE found nothing? Maybe. Maybe that would have made a difference.

That isn't a lot. Paterno was not the de facto head of Penn State, or Centre County. His formal authority over Sandusky didn't exist and even his prestige, great as it was, would not carry the day in the absence of any direct evidence on his part. He couldn't ban Sandusky from the campus because Sandusky was a tenured professor. He couldn't arrest Sandusky because he wasn't a cop. He could prosecute Sandusky, because he wasn't the DA.

I can fault Paterno for doing everything he could, but I can't fault him for doing nothing.
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I respectfully submit that there was MUCH more that Joe Paterno could have, and should have done to protect these children. Starting with calling the local police and working his way all the way to calling the President of The United States, if that's what it took.

I'm betting he had their phone numbers.
 
J. J. in Phila said:
Legally, there was nothing more that Paterno could do. Point blank.

..... Paterno was not the de facto head of Penn State.....QUOTE]


funny (kind of) that you put it that way, because many commentators believe that he WAS the "defacto" head of penn state. they believe this in part because when the AD and the President went to his house to fire him a number of years ago, he laughed at them and kicked them out the door.

that kind of reality is exactly what "de facto" means to me.

furthermore I don't for a minute believe that the bod actually had the nerve to fire joepa when they finally did. it was not lost on me (althou it seems to have been missed by the media entirely) that the Governor of Pennsylavnia gave a press conference with a very pointed and unsympathetic statement about the situation the day of the firing from State College.

i'm sure you recall joepa's statement to the board when they were considering action (once the grand jury report was released). i could look it up, but bascially it was this: "don't spend your time talking about me. I've made up my mind about me." that told me everything I needed to know about who was in charge in Sate College. Only Joepa didn't count on the governor.





The bod fired joepa only after the governor of Pennsylvania forced them to do it .How the media could completly overlook the obvious is a mystery to me.

thats my opinion.

its also the opinion of a lot of observors that joepa was in fact the defacto president of penn state---- whenever he cared to be, of course.
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This is gossip from another board and I can't find through a Google a way to get a look at the annual reports of the Vermont based Nittany Insurance Company which provides "captive" liability insurance to Penn State. Apparently Schultz is a Director of this company and someone named Allan Anderson who was associated with Hershey Medical Center is another. Nittany would be covering Schultz and Curley?
 
Steely Dan said:
I'm glad to see the alumni holding these people's feet to the fire. :thumb:
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according to the article they clapped loudest at the proposal that the folks responsible for joepa's firing step down.

the board knew what would happen to them if they fired the old man. which was why they didn't do it until they realized they had NO choice.

and that didn't happen until they literally had No choice, when the governor forced their hand. imo.
 
Concerned Papa said:
I respectfully submit that there was MUCH more that Joe Paterno could have, and should have done to protect these children. Starting with calling the local police and working his way all the way to calling the President of The United States, if that's what it took.

I'm betting he had their phone numbers.
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The President is neither a policeman nor a prosecutor. Neither was Paterno.

I'm sorry, but Paterno exhausted his legal powers in 2002. He did not use up all his prestige to pursue this, and everyone would have been better off if he had. That I fault him for.

There were people, however, that had a simple duty to pursue this, without a need for expending prestige, Schultz, Lauro, and yes, Gricar (though neither of the latter two in 2002). I do fault Paterno, but no where near to the extent of the others.
 
costalpilot said:
these penn STATERS are mad. they apparently aren't even paying attention to the talking points the University is pushing. They want action.

who are they mad at? the folks that canned their hero, JoePa, of course.

unbelievable.

http://www.philly.com/philly/insights/137362138.html?cmpid=15585797
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Quite believable, unfortunately.

While I think some of the comments here are more than a bit unfair, I don't disagree with the board position, either. Paterno made a mistake and should have done more, but on the scale of things he was not the main enabler. A lot of alumni think not being as bad as someone else is the same as being good.
 
costalpilot said:
according to the article they clapped loudest at the proposal that the folks responsible for joepa's firing step down.

the board knew what would happen to them if they fired the old man. which was why they didn't do it until they realized they had NO choice.

and that didn't happen until they literally had No choice, when the governor forced their hand. imo.
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Here's a link to a clip from ESPN radio in which Cory Giger, a radio host in State College, describes the mood of the townhall crowd: http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=7458475. He confirms what you suggest: the crowd's anger was directed at the BOT for how Paterno was treated. It's all about JoePa to them. His supporters are almost cult-like in their devotion. JMO.
 
J. J. in Phila said:
The President is neither a policeman nor a prosecutor. Neither was Paterno.

I'm sorry, but Paterno exhausted his legal powers in 2002. He did not use up all his prestige to pursue this, and everyone would have been better off if he had. That I fault him for.

There were people, however, that had a simple duty to pursue this, without a need for expending prestige, Schultz, Lauro, and yes, Gricar (though neither of the latter two in 2002). I do fault Paterno, but no where near to the extent of the others.
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I posted these words two months ago, before we knew much of what has been revealed since. I feel just as strongly today about JoePa's failure to protect these children as I did on November 12.

I don't give a rat's azz about the "proper procedures" Joe Paterno is being alleged to have followed in reporting the 2002 incident to his "superiors". They didn't stop anything. Joe Paterrno KNEW they stopped nothing.

I DO care about why Joe Paterno seems to have absolved himself of any further obligation to do anything to stop this monster. I DO care about why, after knowing nothing was done, he didn't place calls to the State level of LE or even the FBI if necessary.

Unlike you or I, the Joe Paternos of this world could directly call the President of the United States if that's what it took. Unlike you or I, the Joe Paternos of this world could call a press conference. At a press conference, after stepping up to the microphone, after adjusting his tie and clearing his throat, in a clear and forcefull voice Joe Paterno COULD HAVE said......

"Ladies and Gentleman, I am here today to stop a MONSTER..."

Instead, he was silent and did nothing.

THAT is my problem with JoePa.
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Because of his "prestige", Joe Paterno could have immediately done more to stop the sick actions of Sandusky than all of the other officials at Penn State combined, had he chosen to do so.

He didn't even bother to find out the little boy's name.
 
Concerned Papa said:
Paterno wasn't part of any monetary motive or incestuous relationship? Did you perhaps miss this picture?

120511-news-paterno-business-2-ss-6.jpg


The partners of Pinnacle Development, builders of the failed multi million dollar Villages at Penn State.

-William Schreyer, Trustee for Penn State University

-Robert Poole, Chairman of The Second Mile Board of Directors

-Joe Paterno, Head Coach of Penn State University
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Yes, that's exactly the project I was talking about, and you were probably the one who originally brought it to our attention, so thank you!

In failing to do anything about Sandusky, he was trying to save that project and all the moolah he and the other investors were supposed to make on it. Everyone should just follow the money and it's obvious why they covered up the original Sandusky allegations.

So again, thank you!
 
J. J. in Phila said:
The President is neither a policeman nor a prosecutor. Neither was Paterno.

I'm sorry, but Paterno exhausted his legal powers in 2002. He did not use up all his prestige to pursue this, and everyone would have been better off if he had. That I fault him for.

There were people, however, that had a simple duty to pursue this, without a need for expending prestige, Schultz, Lauro, and yes, Gricar (though neither of the latter two in 2002). I do fault Paterno, but no where near to the extent of the others.
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BBM

One other point I would respectfully make. Joe Paterno may very well have exhausted his legal REQUIREMENT, but he came no where near exhausting his legal POWER. It is within the legal right and power of every citizen in this country to report a crime to their State's Law Enforcement agency. It is within the legal power of every citizen in this country to call as many branches of Law Enforcement as necessary to gain action against a crime.

Powers that be can write an entire book of requirements, but they can't write a rule book thick enough to take away this legal right and power.

Joe Paterno did NOT exhaust his legal POWER to protect these children, and he didn't even attempt to exhaust his moral obligation to do exactly that.
 
The debate about what Paterno could have done or should have done in regarding to protecting the young boys against Sandusky will go on even after Paterno is gone.

There will be those who try to repair/rewrite Paterno's end of story at Penn State.

It doesn't matter in the end what we think, it matters how many how many boys were raped by Sandusky AFTER Paterno, Curley and crew knew about Sandusky.

The debate goes on but if were my child I know I would know Paterno and crew failed miserably.
 
Concerned Papa said:
Because of his "prestige", Joe Paterno could have immediately done more to stop the sick actions of Sandusky than all of the other officials at Penn State combined, had he chosen to do so.
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I don't agree that he could have done more than everyone else combined, but he could have, and should have done more.

He could sat down with Schultz and asked him what he did. Paterno, from a prestige or political power standpoint, had the power to do that.

He didn't even bother to find out the little boy's name.
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I don't think Paterno needed the boy's name. I think he needed to make sure the University Police had the boy's name. He needed to make sure the police were doing their job.
 
StellarsJay said:
This is gossip from another board and I can't find through a Google a way to get a look at the annual reports of the Vermont based Nittany Insurance Company which provides "captive" liability insurance to Penn State. Apparently Schultz is a Director of this company and someone named Allan Anderson who was associated with Hershey Medical Center is another. Nittany would be covering Schultz and Curley?
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I think you are refering to a site called 'blink on crime'. I tried to post a link, but it showed as unverified on WS.
 
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