People Magazine article about Lisa

[marge_rita]

I'm sure you can find a library of information on the net.

Susan Smith by all accounts was a good mother who had not snapped before.
Andrea Yeatts was a loving mother, who hadn't killed before.
Caroline Young was reportedly a loving mother and later a loving grandmother who snapped and killed 2 of her grandchildren.

Killers don't always kill before...if that was true, every murderer would be a serial killer.

 

[Just K]

Adult time, one on one time, comfort time which did she want the most? She has used all three of those phrases to describe events of that evening/night.

Earlier today, I was thinking of things two boys, a four year old and a baby might do if Mom's were drinking and distracted.

Another HYPOTHESIS!!!
The movies have ended the kids get restless, baby Lisa is awake and someone gets her out of the crib. Mom & other Mom are out front and all the kids entertain themselves by jumping on the bed...trampoline-style. Everyone is laughing having a blast...baby is loving being bounced about but she flies up and flips off Mom's bed. She hits her head on a table, the bed frame, the window sill or something hard that's on the floor near the bed. She doesn't move, she isn't breathing...something happened. Do the boys run to moms or do they hide the baby under the bed? Are the Mom's drunk? Do both Mom's cover it up to protect the children and themselves from looking negligent?

Just another possibility.

 

[dovebar]

I'm sure you can find a library of information on the net.

Susan Smith by all accounts was a good mother who had not snapped before.
Andrea Yeatts was a loving mother, who hadn't killed before.
Caroline Young was reportedly a loving mother and later a loving grandmother who snapped and killed 2 of her grandchildren.

Killers don't always kill before...if that was true, every murderer would be a serial killer.

I did not say they had killed before. Please do not mis-represent my post.
If you're going to address it, please do so respectfully and acurately.

 

[carole]

I would be interested in reading some links that show that anyone has just "snapped" without a history of violence and instability, prescription or illicit drug use, etc. Violence is a continuum, and when we do see mothers who kill like this, like Andrea Yates, there is a long history of depression, instability, worries by others over her care of the children. Usually the ex has tried to take the child away because of fears for them, etc. I am not saying it never happens, but I would be interested in reading statistics or studies.

This is what I think is wrong with Pat Brown's assessment. There just isn't any evidence that DB has borderline personality disorder or something similar. She has healthy, functioning relationships with everyone in her life, no criminal or DFS history. She drinks in the way many do - too much. She was embarrassed by that and didn't immediately admit it to LE. She blacked out sufficiently to be hazy on the night's timeline. She lives in a place where people don't lock their doors. She is poor and not mediagenic, like other high-profile parents - so there are not a lot of white, upper-class people organizing searches for her family.

BBM

She was too embarrassed to admit to LE she had been drinking, but not too embarrassed to go on a national television media blitz and admit it to the world?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

I dont buy it. There was absolutely no reason to tell that to the media. No reason at all, except that she was trying to put forth a reason why she wouldn't have heard someone in her house. It's called "spin". Or possibly "misdirection".

 

[Just K]

I should add to the above hypothetical: Or, were mom's worried that someone may think that the mother snapped and caused a fatal injury.

What would the kids do if this happened? Kids get scared. Oftentimes they do nothing, say nothing...hide things. What would a mother do if she had been drinking, went to bed only to be awakened by a traumatized son who wanted to tell mommy what happened. Then what do you do? The baby has been under the bed for hours.

 

[jjenny]

I think we can answer that in DB's own words "that's what 911 is for."

 

[Just K]

I think we can answer that in DB's own words "that's what 911 is for."

Yes, but she said that in reference to if she caused an accident. What do you do if you have no idea when the accident occurred and there is a stone cold baby on the floor?

 

[dovebar]

BBM

She was too embarrassed to admit to LE she had been drinking, but not too embarrassed to go on a national television media blitz and admit it to the world?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

I dont buy it. There was absolutely no reason to tell that to the media. No reason at all, except that she was trying to put forth a reason why she wouldn't have heard someone in her house. It's called "spin". Or possibly "misdirection".

She admitted it publicly after she admitted to LE, is my understanding. Just as with the lie detector; they told her she failed, and she said that. I haven't seen her being proud of the drinking. As I said upthread, she was publicly drinking, for quite some time. Anyone watching in the neighborhood could see that she would be out of it. She might also have told any number of the people in the neighborhood that her husband was about to start working nights. He may have been seen leaving the residence. Opportunity meets motive for a perp.

 

[AngelWings444]

I think you are getting tired. I was just wondering about you thoughts on how the kitten could have been part of a coverup. Like was it planned in advance somehow, or it happened to be around for Debbie to use, or what? All your other points are fine, I'm just not asking about those things right now.

What are your thoughts about the Kitty story, Ranch? I respect your thoughts and I am very interested.

Here is my thought, totally random and certainly not factual. I view the kitty story like the pizza story in the FCA case. Something that was there but might not have any value, but somehow may be used as an excuse later on? Furthermore, for some odd reason, and I'm probably 100% wrong, I think this kitty was used as blackmail for another child's real nightmare (the boy sleeping in her bed, the car blanket). I do believe each and every statement from these parents, will have some type of meaning/excuse in the end, we may not understand it now, but hopefully it will bite them in the rear later, if they are responsible. I believe one of them is responsible for Baby Lisa missing. :twocents:

ETA: I think this kitten was "found" when "someone" was looking for a spot to hide evidence or bury a little baby. Whether that started in the backyard or not, whether it was that day or not, I do not know. Again, JMO.

JMO (for now)

 

[jjenny]

She admitted it publicly after she admitted to LE, is my understanding. Just as with the lie detector; they told her she failed, and she said that. I haven't seen her being proud of the drinking. As I said upthread, she was publicly drinking, for quite some time. Anyone watching in the neighborhood could see that she would be out of it. She might also have told any number of the people in the neighborhood that her husband was about to start working nights. He may have been seen leaving the residence. Opportunity meets motive for a perp.

He wasn't going to work nights. He was supposed to come home at 10 pm.

 

[Just K]

An interesting thought: If Lisa died, perhaps the person responsible for her being missing is not the person directly responsible for her death.

 

[AngelWings444]

The problem with the "she snapped" scenario is that she has no history. She was out buying items to care for the little girl, who is, by all accounts, well-cared for. There is no record of DFS visits to the house. They do not have a violent history as a couple. She does not have a long litany of boyfriends, ex-friends, ex-bosses and others saying that she had a history of snapping. She cooks for others. She's friends with her neighbors. She's close to her brother. She's a stay-at-home mom to three kids who are, by all acounts, nice kids and also well-cared for. Indeed, she's the kind of naive, relatively uneducated person who takes in a stray kitten (when most of us would put it in quarantine in the laundry room in a box until we could get it to the shelter or a vet - if we did that much).

The kind of bizarre feeding frenzy that media, and LE using the media keeps trying to whip up just isn't supported by any evidence.

Link please! We do not know anything about this family, except what the family who "lost" their daughter, and their lawyers are stating to the media.

IMO - LE is not using the media in this case, the parents are doing it!

 

[AlmostGone]

:gthanks:

I thought the kitten was possibly thrown into Deborah's story as a feel good comment; akin to her meaning I was curled up in bed with a little rescued kitten...oh and I was drunk and my child disappeared.

Did she use the rescued kitten as a point to show she had a heart?

imo

I was thinking the kitten and her son was being used as "comfort" after she harmed Lisa IMO :0)

 

[Just K]

LE has made probably less than 10 "statements" to the press.

 

[Just K]

I was thinking the kitten and her son was being used as "comfort" after she harmed Lisa IMO :0)

A comfort for herself or for her son?

 

[MamaK]

Maybe the kitten/cat should have its own thread. :floorlaugh::innocent::innocent:

 

[Dewey2Me1MoThyme]

Maybe the kitten/cat should have its own thread. :floorlaugh::innocent::innocent:

And a spot on DWTS :great:

 

[Just K]

That whole "kitten in the bed" thing bothered me from the first time I heard about it. It definitely means something.

DB does like to add details. Each time she tells the story a new nuance is revealed.

 

[RANCH]

What are your thoughts about the Kitty story, Ranch? I respect your thoughts and I am very interested.

Here is my thought, totally random and certainly not factual. I view the kitty story like the pizza story in the FCA case. Something that was there but might not have any value, but somehow may be used as an excuse later on? Furthermore, for some odd reason, and I'm probably 100% wrong, I think this kitty was used as blackmail for another child's real nightmare (the boy sleeping in her bed, the car blanket). I do believe each and every statement from these parents, will have some type of meaning/excuse in the end, we may not understand it now, but hopefully it will bite them in the rear later, if they are responsible. I believe one of them is responsible for Baby Lisa missing. :twocents:

JMO (for now)

For myself to have an opinion about the kitty, I need more info. Was this a single kitten that just showed up? Was it a litter from a feral cat? Were these kittens or single kitten seen around the neighborhood before the night in question by others? Without some basic information, I have a hard time coming up with a scenario of any kind. Maybe your thoughts are dead on correct.

 

[dovebar]

Link please! We do not know anything about this family, except what the family who "lost" their daughter, and their lawyers are stating to the media.

IMO - LE is not using the media in this case, the parents are doing it!

Why are you demanding a link to things that are not only common knowledge in all the media articles so far, but that have been discussed extensively here on WS?

Please do provide a link to refute any of the above. The Irwin's public records, which have been sleuthed extensively on WS, show none of the problems I mention. Please see the other threads where there are links aplenty.