Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #13

[Kat]

Am I the only one who thinks he beating a dead horse?
I don't think the Arubans will ever admit that they botched this investigation. (Although I don't think "botched" is the correct word in this case, I think it was something far more sinister)

FWIW, I'm not sure he's there to have the Arubans apologize for anything. JMHO.

I think he's there because Natalee is for all he knows. He just wants his baby back. Or even just a small piece of her.

I haven't lost a child, but I can't fathom the emotional turmoil of knowing that your baby has been murdered and left to the elements and you can't find her/him.

I know people are different, and that is what makes the world interesting. It's JMHO he's there for his baby.

All of the above is JMHO.

 

[FLNY]

I've also heard it reported that Joran used his white shirt to suffocate (versus strangle) SF when he realized she was not dead yet.

Maybe the white shirt is the beige shirt they say was at the scene with the body. It could have been a winter white shirt he was wearing more beige than white.

Another thing that's been on my mind, when I first saw the videos of Joran and Stephany walking into the hotel, I could swear I noticed she was wearing a skirt and the same top I always see that she was wearing. They showed her legs at the beginning (not masked by the title and headlines/verbage across the bottom). As a matter of fact, I had it in my mind that she had been wearing a shift dress. But then in the casino she is wearing pants with the same top. I'm still confused about this as people were discussing that she was found with a skirt. The skirt I think she was wearing is the same color (or close) to her top. Anybody else remember seeing her wearing a skirt in any of the videos?

If you think there may be any true statements in his confession document, then maybe the clothes issues are resolved (i.e., his white / beige shirt, her pants/skirt):

"11. How were you dressed and Stephany on May 30?
- I had a blue jeans, which brand I do not know. I have several. Furthermore, a beige shirt with long sleeves and white Nike sneakers that I wear now. Stephany had a blue jeans. And a polo shirt and shoes, I think.

15. Is this garment of One Star Converse, beige, with long sleeves and blood, the same clothing you wore on May 30 and used to Stephany to suffocate?
- Yes. "

Although this is the English translation, the original Spanish document also refers to his shirt as 'beige' in both #11 and #15, even tho to me it looked white in both the hotel and casino videos.

I don't recall seeing her in a skirt in any of the videos.

MOO

 

[Nana46]

Since JBaez seems to like high profile cases maybe he could go over and help JVS out......since he can't be lead chair in the current one he is in:woohoo:

 

[Woe.be.gone]

JQK stated on the Today Show on Friday, video in the Media thread, that Joran was "cold as ice" and "patholical" when he spent HOURS with Joran on 4/3/10 and 5/10/10

I finally figured out who JQK is - ha! Yes, he is nice looking imo.

 

[Lori59]

To me, it looks like the coffee cups are empty when he leaves the room just by the way he is carrying them... like he's not worried about spilling all over.

Great point. You do not hold hot coffee close to your chest that way..but rather in your hand away from your body.

 

[TwiceIrish]

Since JBaez seems to like high profile cases maybe he could go over and help JVS out......since he can't be lead chair in the current one he is in:woohoo:

I just heard (read) that Joran would now be appointed a public defender...perhaps he'll be better off with one than J. Baez!

 

[Kat]

I need to correct the earlier link I provided regarding T.Miller being in aruba. It's here

http://stephww.wordpress.com/page/2/

I have the utmost respect for Tim. He won't give up until every lead is followed through with. God bless him.

I hope and pray that eventually he finds NH. JMHO.

 

[PassTheMotrin]

I am trying to catch up with this thread. Thank you for posting that as I did not see that before, or I missed it. Was any reason given from why Altz quit?

I read on CNN that he said he quit because "This has created many problems" for him. (I assume he's referring to taking Joran's case.)

 

[FLNY]

I was watching HLN about 40 minutes ago. I don't have a link since I just watched this on tv,but the Jean Caesares was on,and talked about the coffee cups video,which she said was being shown repeatedly in Peru.. Jean said that, in the confession report, LE asked him what he was doing in that video. Jean said that JVDS responded that he really didn't know what he was doing, which she stated she took to mean that the video of JVDS with the coffee cups was after he had murdered Stephany. Again,this on HLN news at a little before 4pm, eastern central time. I had not heard this before anywhere,so I thought I would post it here.

This is the statement that's in his confession document:

"22. Why did you go out of room 309 after the murder to return with two cups of coffee in hand?

- I do not know. I simply do not know what I was thinking."


I understood this to refer to the video we've seen where he leaves the room with the two cups of coffee...but then again, it may refer to the video we haven't seen...where he goes out to buy coffee. But in either case, he's confirming that it's AFTER the murder. Again, that's if you can believe him!!

MOO

 

[Adalena935]

I don't doubt he attempted to rape her because we keep hearing that he had inquired to 'friends' for female companionship. He expressed he was unable to pick up girls easily (for his own desires obviously). So we know that was on his mind. Once she said she had her period and was not interested in his advances, he became enraged.
He is probably a sex addict too imo.

bolding mine

I heard someone talk about that also and that he spoke of women in very derogatory language.

Also I would like to compliment Cottages on the well thought out post #747. I agree with just about everything said. Thank you so much.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Did you catch Jean C on HLN earlier saw she had watched that video over and over and then she said "we see Joran go IN the room with 2 coffee cups" - uhm - no we don't.

Does Jean C. had a more "complete" copy of this video? Did he just get back from getting the coffee, go in and come right back out? I think that's unlikely but who knows anymore.

Wait, I think he does go "in" after the little guy opens the door for him. What JC leaves out of her report is that only minutes before that, he comes out of the room with the same two cups of coffee, messes with the still open door by knocking limply, looks up and down the hallway a couple of times and the knocks again before closing the door tight. He then goes to get the desk clerk who opens the door and JVS walks in the room with the same two cups of coffee. All the while he's wearing the clean shirt so I'm positive this weird 'dance' of his is taking place after SF is dead.

 

[Adalena935]

Wait, I think he does go "in" after the little guy opens the door for him. What JC leaves out of her report is that only minutes before that, he comes out of the room with the same two cups of coffee, messes with the still open door by knocking limply, looks up and down the hallway a couple of times and the knocks again before closing the door tight. He then goes to get the desk clerk who opens the door and JVS walks in the room with the same two cups of coffee. All the while he's wearing the clean shirt so I'm positive this weird 'dance' of his is taking place after SF is dead.

I think she was most likely dead by then too. Horrible to contemplate and terrible to witness via video; all of it. I think he was somehow (don't know exactly how) trying to set up an alibi for himself as I think the prosecutor or LE official told news media. Don't recall the man's name but he said that's what authorities believe that is about and I think they're probably right. Poor Stephany and poor Natalie. I never was certain Natalee's death (yes I believe she's dead) was an accident either and after this case with Stephany I'm more convinced. My opinion

 

[Flow]

I just heard (read) that Joran would now be appointed a public defender...perhaps he'll be better off with one than J. Baez!

Good grief, I really need to go get my eyes checked! At first glance I thought you wrote J. Bean !

 

[BuzzieCat]

Jean C HLN, keeps reporting you see Joran going into the room with the coffee BUT actually Joran originally comes OUT of the room with the coffee before he goes into the room with the coffee. :crazy:

That's a very important distinction and they are totally misleading and misinforming their viewers! Disgusting!

Well, since I recorded the segment, I added my commentary at the end of the video. I am getting so frustrated with the reporting.

None of the reporters seems to be able to talk about how the darn coffee got to the room and when. We heard about this trip to get the coffee, and the white shirt.

We now know, well maybe we know, that Joran used the white shirt to strangle Stephany as it had blood on it, so he surely didn't wear the white shirt when he went out for coffee.

IMO it still appears that Joran bought the coffee before he killed Stephany.

Where is the coffee video????

I'm beginning to think/wonder that JVDS fidding with the door IS the coffee video! Or should I say, the only coffee video.

I've also heard it reported that Joran used his white shirt to suffocate (versus strangle) SF when he realized she was not dead yet.

Maybe the white shirt is the beige shirt they say was at the scene with the body. It could have been a winter white shirt he was wearing more beige than white.

Another thing that's been on my mind, when I first saw the videos of Joran and Stephany walking into the hotel, I could swear I noticed she was wearing a skirt and the same top I always see that she was wearing. They showed her legs at the beginning (not masked by the title and headlines/verbiage across the bottom). As a matter of fact, I had it in my mind that she had been wearing a shift dress. But then in the casino she is wearing pants with the same top. I'm still confused about this as people were discussing that she was found with a skirt. The skirt I think she was wearing is the same color (or close) to her top. Anybody else remember seeing her wearing a skirt in any of the videos?

As far as I can see, she was always wearing jeans. She was clearly wearing jeans in the casino and as she was leaving the casino with JVDS. She was also wearing jeans as they were entering the hotel, but it was more difficult to see. However, there is one quick glimpse in which you can see a space between her legs that wouldn't be there if she had on a skirt. I doubt she had a skirt in her car and JVDS probably didn't have one in his hotel room, either. IMO.

 

[angelwngs]

in the common area... Is this who we would wish to know JVDS is spending time with while he is in prison should he ever gain release? Is he not bad enough without sharing ideas with and learning 'lessons from' a Colombian hit man?

The only other inmate in the area is alleged Colombian hit man Hugo Trujillo Ospina. The two have spent some time together in a common area where there is a television set and weights made of out of broomsticks and soda bottles, authorities said.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/06/14/peru.murder.case/index.html?hpt=T2

 

[Adalena935]

I think Joran saying he didn't know what he was doing with the two cups of coffee hi-jinx going in and out of the room, locking it, knocking on the door etal "I don't know.." is code for I'm not going to tell you because I was trying to set up an alibi for myself and I don't want to cop to it because that would indicate malice aforethought. (which it was) That's my opinion only in his lame "I don't know.." malarkey (speech designed to obscure, mislead or deflect)

 

[FLNY]

This is another statement in his confession document which I have not seen or heard discussed anywhere:

Right after the murder, he says "Then I thought: now what? I left the hotel but the receptionist told me I had to move the car. I went back to room 309. I wanted to flee the hotel. I grabbed my two bags and I drove away with the car."

This indicates that he walked out of the hotel prior to when he see him on the video leaving with this two bags....again, if you can believe him!!

I had understood that the car was left in the hotel parking lot when he and Stephany arrived.

Anyone else hear about this?

There certainly are still a lot of gaps to be filled in! Wish they would just let us see all the tapes of exits and entries to that room from 5:15 am to 9 am!!!

MOO

 

[Adalena935]

News has reported murderers are in Peruvian prisons where Joran would be sent. I don't see anything surprising about the fact they're there with him. News has repeatedly said that's where he would be sent; to Peruvian prison with other murderers. IF he gets out & kills again I would imagine they'd send him back if they catch him again. It's been my impression bad people are in prisons (except for the wrongly convicted but that goes without saying)

 

[Nana46]

A little OT humor..........I cannot tell anyone (except you folks) that I have spent most of my summer break watching a killer (IMO) fiddling with a door holding coffee cups.....nobody I know would believe me....or maybe they would,lol

 

[Kat]

I think Joran saying he didn't know what he was doing with the two cups of coffee hi-jinx going in and out of the room, locking it, knocking on the door etal "I don't know.." is code for I'm not going to tell you because I was trying to set up an alibi for myself and I don't want to cop to it because that would indicate malice aforethought. (which it was) That's my opinion only in his lame "I don't know.." malarkey (speech designed to obscure, mislead or deflect)

I agree Adalena, I was sitting here thinking about his wording and responses when you posted that. Thank you.

Also, IIRC I read a link posted here last night that was of one of his confessions. (translated article).

He states to something of the effect that initially he had struck her and sat on her with his hands around her neck while on the bed. He then states that he notices she's on the floor. IIRC he doesn't say how she got on the floor. To me if I'm remembering that correctly there is a portion of the assault he doesn't want to speak about. He's more than likely lying about about the assault beginning by a blow from her while sitting on the bed. JMHO. It's probably almost completely all a lie. JMHO.

He doesn't know how she got the other injuries on her body (wont' speak about those because as you said he will implicate himself further). He doesn't know how her pants were taken off.

IMHO he might be trying to set up a scenario where he is suffered from a blackout (possibly trying to indicate a psychotic break with reality due to rage that might possibly stem from being falsely accused <his words previously> of murdering NH).

FWIW, as I said earlier I have no formal education in criminology, or forensic psychology it's just my take that if he had suffered from what we consider a break with reality due to extreme rage he wouldn't remember a single detail after he reports she slapped him upside his head. He would only remember the slap and then finding her dead on the floor.

I'm not saying that breaks with reality don't happen---I just don't think they happen as often as many criminals report when they are trying to (as you put it) deflect, mislead and obscure the truth of the matter. JMHO.