Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #13

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Linda7NJ said:
What I find incredibly strange and a HUGE contradiction is the loving way I've seen him interact with his mother. It seems so warm and genuine.

There's a pic or two in the above flicker link and I've seen the short video clip. Odd, very odd.
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I think both Anita and Joran have been victimized by Paulus.

JMO of course.
 
Dutchie you have already been to bed and back up? Wow time passes fast.
 
Joran was seen in the video pulling the same door shut that he wanted into and was knocking on. You bring fresh coffee out of the room first? Then take pretend you locked yourself out? Then close the door you are knocking on? If you watch the video again, you might see more. He came back and looked at the camera after his goof up and it appeared he knew he goofed. No going with that idea of "the employee opened the door and "we" both saw her on the side of the bed." Not a well thought out plan. But I noticed the "oops" moment when Joran realized he goofed.

The thing I wish for the most is better translation. You can't discuss much if it's translated in several different versions. Oh geez... xxxooo

ETA, maybe I better learn the language? How demanding of me. lol

That's directed at translated articles by google etc...I think they are good, but I'm seeing a lot of statements based on "shakey" word interpretations. JMO xoxo
 
sassy_texasbelle2 said:
JW came up as an error. Did the one I posted not work for you?:waitasec: It is the whole 10 pages of the pdf file in the article. Let me know please.
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I copied the pdf over to a fresh Google start page and hit translate
and it says its too long to translate. The newest (already translated?)
link comes up as an error ... for me that is.
 
Unreals said:
Frankly, I don't know what Joran was doing in most of that video. Doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense, but as you might expect, I don't really find it to be indicative of guilt or incriminating. On the contrary, as I've noted, I feel that getting the hotel employee to open the door was an almost unbelievably risky thing to do, if a dead body lay just behind it. Unless, of course, the intent was to get the employee to see the body, as some have suggested. However, since Joran didn't do anything to direct his attention there, the whole thing seems ridiculous. Unless, of course, he really did lock himself out of the room.

Every time I mention the book, it seems to cause trouble, so I won't say much about that. Needless to say, things have to turn out a certain way in Peru for there to be a viable book.
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I've watched the vid again, and I can't shake my first impression: weirdly suspicious. It just looks to me that Joran is setting up his alibi. I agree, it was risky to have the attendant open the door. He opens it fairly wide, but steps to the side. Perhaps the body couldn't be seen from the doorway.

Of course, the entire security video will show who entered and left the room, and at what times. But can videos be doctored without leaving edit traces?

Oh, has anyone translated what the newscaster was saying while she was showing the video?
 
Unreals said:
Thanks for that. I suspect that "replacement judge" is another way of saying "judge in training," but there obviously could be a difference.
Click to expand...

Lawyers are sometimes hired by the district court as back up judges to lighten the courts' work load. It is a second job for such a lawyer and highly coveted since it will give them inside track on the court. Very helpful when you are on the defense side for other cases in same court. I suspect that is what Paulus was, a replacement judge.
 
mgardner said:
All this while the rest of the prisoners have to make their own meals. Each week they are allotted a certain amount of food for each pod (which is why there are so many outcasts). Can you imagine what they're gonna do when/if they find out JVS is being served by the guards? EEK!

If I was in that prison, I think I'd go the starvation route!

Mel
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I keep seeing people mention the outcasts and monthly food rations mentioned..
Is this true for the prisoners in Castro Castro I wonder?
I know the video of Lurigancho showed that the prisoners were given monthly rations and had to make their own food.. but I don't know if ALL prisons in Peru operate this way..??
 
BuzzieCat said:
BBM. I would love to know the answer to this but haven't been able to find anything. I saw something somewhere that said PVDS was "dismissed" from judge school in March 2005, which would have been about 2 months before Natalee arrived and disappeared. Apparently after that he just served as a lawyer and never became a judge. Would love to know if that is true and if so, why.



BBM and shortened for space.

I think that's really it. He may have a basic genetic personality that is slanted toward the antisocial side, IDK, and then on top of that it really sounds like he got his way at home all the time, if the stuff I've heard is true. That video when JVDS threw the wine was very telling to me, not only about his temper but also the way that temper was probably treated at home. His mother just stood there very impassively as if she didn't notice. Makes me think it was probably par for the course at their house and you were "expected" to ignore it/look the other way/give in. JMO.
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BBM- Also interesting is Peter De Vries says that JVDS's Mom apologized to him non-stop afterwards, and eventually talked JVDS into saying sorry.
Pathetic!
 
BlOnDe_GuRrL said:
I keep seeing people mention the outcasts and monthly food rations mentioned..
Is this true for the prisoners in Castro Castro I wonder?
I know the video of Lurigancho showed that the prisoners were given monthly rations and had to make their own food.. but I don't know if ALL prisons in Peru operate this way..??
Click to expand...

Good question! It could be a moot point, as there are reports that JVS may have to be moved

There are reports however, that Miguel Castro Castro prison will not be secure enough to hold Van Der Sloot and he may have to be incarcerated at Piedras Gordas, another maximum security prison.

According to details published about this prison, it is made of reinforced concrete and is about 161,458 square feet.

For security reasons again, not much information is disclosed about this location, but this article in tribunalatina.com says it is reserved for extremely dangerous prisoners and it seems to have more security than Miguel Castro Castro prison.

Linky:

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/peru...t-joran-van-der-sloot-could-face-2626465.html

On another note, many prisons in Peru (not sure about this one) you can get luxury items.

NowPublic does report that a prisoner with money can obtain such items as a cell phone, food from the outside, and drugs, so this may offer Joran van der Sloot some encouragement. Joran van der Sloot seems to know how to make money, so he'd likely have such privileges that money can buy.

MOO

Mel
 
BlOnDe_GuRrL said:
I keep seeing people mention the outcasts and monthly food rations mentioned..
Is this true for the prisoners in Castro Castro I wonder?
I know the video of Lurigancho showed that the prisoners were given monthly rations and had to make their own food.. but I don't know if ALL prisons in Peru operate this way..??
Click to expand...

Im no expert on this but I think outer administration organises the prison
into blocks and block commitees (of prisoners) run the blocks, each block
according to its own committee and rules. Block committees keep prisoners in line, can bring in a prisoner, eject a prisoner from a block; Joran may be being held in some level separate from the block system for his protection. Each block provides a prisoner with his basic needs and a
place to flop. Each prisoner has duties within each block and must satisfy the needs of the prisoners over him which boils down to doing work for others prisoners and doing what they tell you to do; and there is a lot of competitions between blocks for basic needs and favours from guards. Prisoners who are ejected from all blocks live (literally) outside the walls of the blocks in a kind of courtyard no-man's-land and there scrouge for food in the garbage thrown out from the blocks. Some food ocassionally tossed in the yard by guards. (Then the outcasts must also keep the courtyard picked up! An impossible task)

I cant see that Joran would ever be accepted by any block committee.
His life would be unbearable and possibly short. He would never survive
in the courtyard as an outcast outside the blocks; he would be 100% vulnerable.

To keep him alive I think they will have to keep him in solitary confinement for an extended time or transferred to a better prison where no of these rislks exist in the same raw way. This was already referred to in one of the police reports and the reports where after the trial if convicted he would then be required to merge with the other prisoners (in a block!). I cant that ever happeneing at Castro. That will be a basis for legal appeal, his safety. He is a rather high profile
patient in this regard so it will be interesting to see what they actually do to spare him, or send him to the wolves.
 
Unreals said:
1. What is the official cause of death now?
Blunt force trauma & choking followed by suffocation (i.e. the choking and the suffocation may have only hastened death that would have resulted from the blunt force trauma that, at least, caused massive bleeding and a fractured skull).
2. What is the official murder weapon? JVS's shirt.
3. What wounds were found on the body? See diagram from link on media site; Bruises on right side of body, neck & knees, smashed in nose/face. It's likely the arm bruises are defensive wounds. If right-handed, this is naturally the arm one would immediately put up in front of their face to "protect" themselves.
4. What position was the body found in? See diagram. On floor next to bed (exact position, i.e. partial fetal, unclear).
5. What was Stephany wearing when found, and was she wrapped in a
blanket? Black shirt & red panties. He removed her pants after he killed her (he said he doesn't know why he did that, but I believe it was part of the alibi he intended to lay before he noticed the camera). The one crime scene photo available is not from a credible source (National Enquirer) shows her wrapped in the bed spread. In his statement he says he used the sheets & bed spread to clean up a little.
6. What was Joran's motive? People with explosive anger don't necessarily have motives (at least not in terms that are understandable to others, i.e. "not agreeing" with an explosive person is a "motive" to make them pay for "making" them feel wrong, i.e. "not right," which means they must be wrong.) These type people are scary as their blood pressure often drops rather than rises when they are angered, as if they are happy the target has done something that will allow them to "justifiably" release their constant state of anxiety. One anger management professional (Newton Hightower) calls these type of people "Cobras" and says they are not capable of being rehabilitated, and he is likely correct since lowered BP is a uncontrollable physiological response, like a sociopath's lack of startle response, i.e. their cortisol system is damaged. You can't rehab some one to produce cortisol or spike their BP. These people have been biologically "stripped" of their ability to respond normally.

There are only a few motives to murder someone. Money, keep them quiet or vengeance (not counting assisted suicide). It's possible his motive was her money (that's what her dad believes), but I don't think it was her money. It's unlikely that he would have taken her to his hotel room if that was his motive. He would have killed her in the car.

I do agree with her dad that her posture in entering the hotel with him does not indicate that they were there to "hang out together." The way she followed him makes it look more like a "duty" stop (that she wasn't crazy about having to make). For example, he said he wanted to change shirts before they went to a dance club, or he needed to stop and transfer money into an account online so it would be accessible at an automatic teller machine. Since he is such a poor historian, I doubt anyone will ever know what the real "motive" was if it was a result of his feeling humiliated in some way (i.e., explosive anger).

7. Was Stephany sexually assaulted? No.
8. Did Joran pay for two days back rent at the front desk before leaving? No.
9. Did Joran tell the hotel not to check the room? If so, who did he tell and when? Yes. He told them not to enter because his girl was sleeping (it seems the hotel also reported that he told them upon checking in that he did not want to be disturbed at all during his stay)
10. Did Joran take Stephany's vehicle? Yes (then a taxi to the airpoirt, then a taxi across town, another out of town, and so it went).
11. Who discovered Stephany's body? Hotel employee.
12. Were there other security cameras on the floor where Joran's room was? Most likely. It seems to me that while he was knocking on the door with the coffee cups, he noticed something on the ceiling that could be a camera, although at that time, he appears to have had the presence of mind not to look directly up at it, but it seems to have caught his peripheral vision. Because, apparently, they are not obviously cameras (encased in boxes or globes), he walked down the hall or to another floor (over a span of 2 minutes) to locate another one to see if these things on the ceilings were indeed cameras. Once he found one, he came back around the corner to just to look at the one outside his hotel room door...I suspect to see if it matched the one he found, or if it had ??? like the other one he found (perhaps a small red LED indicating it was on), but it seems pretty obvious he came back to look at it to *match up the characteristics* to another ceiling object he had found and determined to be a camera (or determined to be a working camera). All the camera views have obviously not been released.

Btw, I notice that a great deal has been made of Joran's supposed spoiled- rich-kid attitude towards the prison food. Do you really think that one of the most notorious prisons in the third world is offering him steak? Giving him cigarettes?
Click to expand...

I think other posters are zeroing in on his incredible sense of entitlement. A sense of entitlement does not always come from being spoiled though. It is often part & parcel of a more global distorted, criminal thinking pattern (see Samenow's "Criminal Mind" series of books, for example). Most felon-level criminals have a heavy dose of entitlement thinking, and the demographic origin of most felons is anything but children of the well-to-do/connected or children who went unpunished (quite the contrary). And, JVS certainly does exhibit many of the thinking errors (unknown to him) that Samenow (and clinicians since) have documented. His sense of entitlement is quite clear ("I don't WANT to be extradited"; I don't WANT to go to a Peru prison; I fear I'll be killed [it's okay to kill others, but it's not okay to kill me]).

Okay, so those are my thoughts. I've not posted before, but every one here is a pretty good sleuth, so there was no need :-), but since you asked for responses, here's my two cents. Like you said that you have more questions, I have more thoughts, but that would take a book :-), and I will gladly leave the task of book writing to you, or others.
 
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