Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #18

[Woe.be.gone]

How you looked at his face really good in this pic?.. Excuse the Get out of jail free logos I was playing around and then started looking at his face ..

What are you seeing? Puffy? Tough/Mean?

 

[Carrington]

Like most, Joran's conspiracy theory is flimsy. He didn't need Mr. Garcia's money; he had $25,000 in extortion money.

Joran's cruel conspiracy theory about his father deposing the Holloway body was also a fabrication.

One of the most extraordinary things about him is his propensity to retool his alibis, often at the expense of others.

Did he not think when his mother heard this, she would turn against him.....(underlined by me)

 

[krowdkat]

Is there any way LE can tell if he put the shirt on her post mortem? How do they know she wasn't wearing the shirt at the time of the murder?

I think PLE is basing this on Joran's initial confession that he took his shirt and smothered her. Looks like a whole lot of blood on one particular area of the shirt he was seen wearing into room 309 with Stephany in tow.

Forensics should be able to determine if ALL the blood spots on that shirt got to where they are if Joran was wearing the shirt and then took it off to smother her, and then dress her in it. Or if, Stephany was wearing it the whole time she was being slaughtered. JMHO

 

[KR2tonenow]

Exactly what I meant in above post and the talk of sex.....it is just crude!!

Call me old fashioned but I find totally in - appropriate!! OT

 

[suzihawk]

Good evening sleuthers. :seeya: Catching up again - as usual...

Quote from md89's translation of AVDS interview

I thought that according to Beth's account, she was at Joran's house with a detective speaking with him, one of the Kalpoe brothers and Paul the day after NH disappeared. She also claimed that Paul cut off the conversation when Joran started talking to them about the evening before. Doesn't sound like a man trying to get the truth out of his son IMO.

Was I mistaken about this?

This is the way I remember it.

The crime scene images we are seeing now from CBS match the room diagram that was posted the other day by Radaronline.

I'm confused about where the bathroom/toilet is in this room. ?? Is it a separate room/alcove/partition or is that what I see in the lower right hand part of the diagram - right out in the open?

I seem to recall a couple of news reports where JVS claimed that he thought about putting her into a suitcase and taking her out of the hotel that way- that he even attempted it but she didn't fit. Seems more likely to me that he attempted to bunch her up to see if she could be disposed of.

I've read of multitudes of beating deaths, and they don't end up in a fetal position unless they die slowly afterwards- the body does not automatically contract to fetal position from being beaten or dying. Curling up is a conscious brain process/reaction/defense, not an automatic body response. I can't see it hapening in an unconscious person. They go limp, not fetal.

Also, I thought I'd read that he said he had moved her? Wouldn't he have had to have moved her somewhat to have mopped up blood as he claimed?

I remember reading about him contemplating cutting her up (that's difficult to type) and put her into a suitcase and also of him moving her. But, I was wondering if her being in a fetal position was a result of her trying to draw herself into a ball to ward off the blows?


Also... I know it's not a very popular opinion, but I don't have much sympathy for AVS and the translated interview with Dutch TV hasn't done anything to change that. She's trying to make it sound how sorry she felt for the Holloways and how they attempted to reach out to them, blah blah. I was as heavily into that case as I am into this one and I don't remember it that way at all. They (yes... both she and Paulus) tried to thwart any and all attempts at getting answers to the truth and blamed the Holloways for all her son's woes - and it continues to this very day. To me, the interview reads like she's trying to paint a false picture of life before Natalee went missing. Until I see an official document, I don't believe for a second that JVS was scheduled to be confined to a mental facility two days before he went to Peru. They never bothered to do that when he was a minor in their 'control' (I use that term loosely here) when there were clear signs he needed help way back then so why now? Damage control. Very transparent attempt at damage control - just like this interview. Goes without saying that this is my own humble opinion.

 

[Kamille]

What I don't get is this....even IF he was lured or set up or whatever (NOT) he still frigging killed her! What am I missing about that:banghead:

This one is easy. Stephany was part of the FBI sting too dontcha know, and was harrassing him and hitting/threatening him inside that hotel room for information about NH so he had no choice but to kill her. Just wait...that will be the next part of the FBI conspiracy theory. :banghead:

MOO

 

[epiphany]

JeanC
New info on psych reports:
- deficient social conscience which can be seen when break rules...
- he's constantly looking for new experiences which allow him to feel stimulated

Dr. Lillian Glass: he's a sociopath-a psychopath

 

[Chanler]

What I don't get is this....even IF he was lured or set up or whatever (NOT) he still frigging killed her! What am I missing about that:banghead:

You are not missing anything. Joran's claim that he was set up is a fall-back, one of many:
1. He and Stephany were attacked in his room by two men. [to Chilean police.]
2. He is being chased by people carrying Natalee Holloway posters. [to his mother from Chile.]
3. He doesn't know that Stephany has been attacked, much less been killed. [to his mother.]
4. He killed Stephany spontaneously after returning to the room. [to Peruvian police.]
5. He confessed because of pressure and misunderstanding. [to Peruvian judge.]
6. He was set up by Mr. Garcia. [to the Dutch interviewer.]
7. He will tell the whole story at some future time. [to the Dutch interviewer.]

 

[GetSmart]

What are you seeing? Puffy? Tough/Mean?

I am seeing like a smirk ... all the media attention ect. It could be cause its its a profile kinda shot but just a smirk you know.

 

[Patty G]

They are talking about Joran van der Sloot's YouTube and also stated they are not sure if it is Joran's YT. I need to find that YT page.

 

[Columbo]

I know and as gruesome as these photos may be to look at, I am actually glad they have been released. Stephany was very real, and this is about her death. A little too much lately has been all about "poor Joran" but these are photos of the beautiful young woman who brutally lost her life in his hotel room. :cry: MOO

I'm also glad they were released. I have to admit I didn't want to see them, but figured it's a must, to really understand what happened to Stephany. Her death really looks like "overkill" to me. Why the brutality?

 

[KR2tonenow]

That could be the truth and he could still have dressed her in it after he killed her. MOO

Right, but why would he do that? Doesn't the shirt incriminate him further? Because someone stated he was going to possibly put her in his duffel bag?
I think it makes much more sense that he "loaned" her the shirt. "Here take my shirt if you want to sleep in"...."I'll be right here on the computer"....etc.

 

[panthera]

NG back to Jean. Reading more from the psych evaluation. Deficient social conscience, constantly looking for new experiences that allow him to feel stimulated.

Tom Shamshak, former police chief: cold hearted psychopaths pursue immediate gratification at expense of others; profile consistent with past behavior; and his behavior that has been captured on camera.

Dr. Lillian Glass: gets high from doing things out of the normal realm of society.

Ray: psychopathic poker player is coming out and he'll fight this all the way.

NG talking to Doug about this going before 3 seasoned judges instead of a jury; not the time to roll the dice. Doug is saying Joran has no hand to play! Doug also repeating what Peruvian president said about not extraditing Joran anywhere until Peru has tried him.

NG to Victoria about Joran dressing Stephany in his shirt, she can't understand why he would do that. V saying he was trying to clean up and dispose of the body in a suitcase, so he would've (wanted to) taken everything out together.

on to another topic.....the end

 

[GetSmart]

OMG what they just said about him trying to gather everything to dispose of it with the body........

Just liked he watched his father do .. but Joran just wasnt able to pull it off.

 

[Carrington]

Did Nancy just skim over the MOST important part of her show......
Did the President of Peru say Joran will NOT be extradited to Aruba.

 

[KR2tonenow]

You are not missing anything. Joran's claim that he was set up is a fall-back, one of many:
1. He and Stephany were attacked in his room by two men. [to Chilean police.]
2. He is being chased by people carrying Natalee Holloway posters. [to his mother from Chile.]
3. He doesn't know that Stephany has been attacked, much less been killed. [to his mother.]
4. He killed Stephany spontaneously after returning to the room. [to Peruvian police.]
5. He confessed because of pressure and misunderstanding. [to Peruvian judge.]
6. He was set up by Mr. Garcia. [to the Dutch interviewer.]
7. He will tell the whole story at some future time. [to the Dutch interviewer.]

Do we have a clap hands!! excellent synopsis.

 

[panthera]

Right, but why would he do that? Doesn't the shirt incriminate him further? Because someone stated he was going to possibly put her in his duffel bag?
I think it makes much more sense that he "loaned" her the shirt. "Here take my shirt if you want to sleep in"...."I'll be right here on the computer"....etc.

I think the theory is he was going to find another, larger suitcase, clean up the room, including putting Stephany and evidence in the suitcase.

And yes, I sometimes borrow my DH's shirts but he's not that many sizes larger, nor is he a foot taller than I am. Stephany would've been swimming in that shirt and the sleeves would've had to be rolled up considerably. And most important, imo, there was no relationship between her and Joran. I don't think she had it on while she was alive. MOO

 

[Truthful Lies]

Please forgive me, you guys...but I can't seem to find the crime scene photos...I can't find the graphic ones on radar....I just want to keep up with everyone and I'm not feeling well...would someone kindly point me in the right direction? Checked out CBS' and radar...and they aren't the ones I've seen posted on a thread or two back.

Please?

 

[KR2tonenow]

I'm also glad they were released. I have to admit I didn't want to see them, but figured it's a must, to really understand what happened to Stephany. Her death really looks like "overkill" to me. Why the brutality?

My thoughts too!

 

[panthera]

Did Nancy just skim over the MOST important part of her show......
Did the President of Peru say Joran will NOT be extradited to Aruba.

Correct. Of course, it isn't really a surprise either. MOO