Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #18

[Unreals]

Exactly. Look at who he victimised in the household - the family dog, and his youngest brother... i.e. the most loved, and the most vulnerable. They all must have been devastated when these two incidents occurred..well, everyone except Joran of course. I'm sure they were afraid of him, of what would happen if they pushed him / confronted him. Who else would he harm? (Well, sadly, I guess we know don't we?)

So this is how they dealt with Joran, first they banished him to the 'guest house' in the garden. After Natalee, he was sent to the Netherlands for school, then (after he was asked to leave), they sent him to Thailand.

Far, far away.

I definitely have issue with the fact that more wasn't done to deal with his violence. I also think the officials in Aruba should have been informed by his parents of his violent past.

Let his story be a lesson.

There is no credible evidence that Joran ever killed a dog. If you have some, please provide a link. As for his youngest brother, what did he do to him? Bully him? Gee, no older brother ever did that before....

 

[hollyblue]

I've been told that there is no evidence of conspiracy. Now we have you posting that Paulus and his "buddies" disposed of Natalee's body. What possible evidence do you have in this regard?

Others are now postulating a very Hollywoodesque motive for Joran- he despises women. This is, of course, in contrast to the numerous snide references in the media to him as the "Dutch playboy." It also is in contradiction to the many media reports at the time of Natalee's disappearance, which tended to portray Joran as a popular kid who easily attracted females.

I don't think any conspiracy theory that has been postulated is more absurd than these pseudo-Dr. Phil-like, pop psychological assessments that are proferred every day on this forum (and others), but more imporantly on national "news" programs, by allegedly ethical professionals. We're all speculating, and my speculation leads towards conspiracy.

I think you replied to the wrong post Unreals.

 

[hollyblue]

That video is of when he was being official transferred to the Peruvian LE....NOT when he was signing his confession!

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. This was my observations also, but thought I had missed something.:waitasec:

Glad to know the beaner is still working.....most of the time.:blushing:

 

[FLNY]

Again, this is only my speculation, and I certainly can't find concrete evidence for it, but....I suspect that the reason for this long delay is because there actually wasn't such a delay. In other words, Stephany died long after Joran left the hotel, which left those responsible scrambling to find a reason for why so much time elapsed before the room was checked.

Then how do you explain the initial LE estimated time of death as being 48-72 hours prior to her body having been discovered?

 

[hollyblue]

Exactly. Look at who he victimised in the household - the family dog, and his youngest brother... i.e. the most loved, and the most vulnerable. They all must have been devastated when these two incidents occurred..well, everyone except Joran of course. I'm sure they were afraid of him, of what would happen if they pushed him / confronted him. Who else would he harm? (Well, sadly, I guess we know don't we?)

So this is how they dealt with Joran, first they banished him to the 'guest house' in the garden. After Natalee, he was sent to the Netherlands for school, then (after he was asked to leave), they sent him to Thailand.

Far, far away.

I definitely have issue with the fact that more wasn't done to deal with his violence. I also think the officials in Aruba should have been informed by his parents of his violent past.

Let his story be a lesson.

Good observation.

IIRC even someone in LE in Aruba stated he had a hard time controlling his temper, so I think they were aware of it. Stated he wasn't pleased at times with his incarceration there. I thought the guy was his godfather in the video, but someone else said it was just a jailor, etc. I think.

 

[Cottages]

Joran doesn't understand Spanish well

http://www.rnw.nl/english/article/van-der-sloot-detained-chilean-police

"Deputy chief of the Chilean immigration police Fernando Ovalle has told Radio Netherlands Worldwide that Joran says he feels safe and trusts the Chilean police. Mr Ovalle says Joran van der Sloot speaks decent Spanish."

It's my guess that a spanish-speaking Chilean Deputy Chief of Immigration Chilean is a higher authority than the authority you failed to cite.

 

[Bobbisangel]

Krowdkat,

I understand what you're saying. I'd like to see those statistics, too.

Btw, I don't contest the fact that Joran appears to be a habitual liar. That makes it even harder to defend him. But, if it can be demonstrated that the authorities really did trick him into signing a "confession" written by them, then I think that's despicable.

More importantly, in such a scenario, the authorities would run the risk of Joran perhaps getting a lighter sentence, if the reports about confessions in Peru working that way are accurate. But, such a bogus "confession" does tie in nicely with that tiny percentage of us that suspect Joran was being framed.

I don't believe that he was tricked into making a confession....they don't even need a confession from him with all of the evidence they have...took his bloody clothes with him and kept them in his back pack the whole time he was on the run....the video outside of the door of his room with the two coffee cups...him knowing her injurys before they were even talked about in the news...him knowing what killed her...and on and on.

If he had been told wrong about the paperwork and the attorney was working for the pros it would serve Joran right. Remember Aruba when his dad said "no body no crime" and the body disappeared...he was treated differently then other men in jail when he was in there...Aruba didn't go out of their way to find Natalee or any evidence because Joran was a judge's son.
If this were true Joran would just be getting a little feel of what it is like to be on the other side with no daddy looking after him. It's not true though...Joran is just lying like is his habit...trying every way that he can to get away with another murder. They aren't buying his lies though and he is going to go to prison for many years when the three judges are done with this horrible thing that he did to that poor girl. He slaughtered her for no reason in this world except that she must have told him NO.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

There is no credible evidence that Joran ever killed a dog. If you have some, please provide a link. As for his youngest brother, what did he do to him? Bully him? Gee, no older brother ever did that before....

Thread #11, Post #340

Beatrice
re the killing of the dog:

"five years ago I belonged to a NH forum where many arubans posted and one in particular had a post count in the 1000s. her location was verified by the forum admin and, in addition, the link to her aruban blog was included in her sig line so her R/L identity was well known. let's call this poster "A"

A's mother has a cousin who was a former gov't official and a peripheral part of the investigation. let's call the cousin "B"

B has a grandson who was a classmate of JvdS. JvdS killed his dog and put the blame on B's grandson. B's extended family was livid and threatened to go to the Polis and file a complaint, which caused JvdS to admit that he had killed his dog and thrown the remains into the Moko pond (near the VdS home)

this dog-killing situation was commented on by other aruban posters at that forum as well, because it was common knowledge in their circle

the quote "killing animals is the least of his problems" came from another aruban at that forum, who was making small talk w/ a staff member at the mental health clinic where JvdS was undergoing anger management counseling (and this second poster's daughter was also receiving counseling, hence the chit chat w/ the staff)" no media links and perhaps not helpful in terms of validity, but FWIW that's how it went down" GramCracker:

"Thank you for verifying this event as true. What was never clear is HOW he killed the dog. Still, can you imagine killing the family dog!!?? After being found out, Joran bragged about this on the school bus. Just like he bragged about being with Natalee on the bus."

The beating of the youngest brother was discussed on BlogTalkRadio...Steph Watts perhaps, I am still looking for the source, will post when have it.

 

[newone]

Thread #11, Post #340

Beatrice
re the killing of the dog:

"five years ago I belonged to a NH forum where many arubans posted and one in particular had a post count in the 1000s. her location was verified by the forum admin and, in addition, the link to her aruban blog was included in her sig line so her R/L identity was well known. let's call this poster "A"

A's mother has a cousin who was a former gov't official and a peripheral part of the investigation. let's call the cousin "B"

B has a grandson who was a classmate of JvdS. JvdS killed his dog and put the blame on B's grandson. B's extended family was livid and threatened to go to the Polis and file a complaint, which caused JvdS to admit that he had killed his dog and thrown the remains into the Moko pond (near the VdS home)

this dog-killing situation was commented on by other aruban posters at that forum as well, because it was common knowledge in their circle

the quote "killing animals is the least of his problems" came from another aruban at that forum, who was making small talk w/ a staff member at the mental health clinic where JvdS was undergoing anger management counseling (and this second poster's daughter was also receiving counseling, hence the chit chat w/ the staff)" no media links and perhaps not helpful in terms of validity, but FWIW that's how it went down" GramCracker:

"Thank you for verifying this event as true. What was never clear is HOW he killed the dog. Still, can you imagine killing the family dog!!?? After being found out, Joran bragged about this on the school bus. Just like he bragged about being with Natalee on the bus."

The beating of the youngest brother was discussed on BlogTalkRadio...Steph Watts perhaps, I am still looking for the source, will post when have it.

Originally Posted by suzihawk
Just listened to the Steph Watts blog radio program from yesterday. He just got back from Aruba and spent some time talking to locals and friends of JVS, amongst other things. They had some interesting stories to tell re: his childhood escapades. One involving his younger brother, Sebastian, that is distressing.

Since I guess this may be considered rumormongering, you can listen for yourself and draw your own conclusions.

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this

 

[gramcracker]

There is no credible evidence that Joran ever killed a dog. If you have some, please provide a link. As for his youngest brother, what did he do to him? Bully him? Gee, no older brother ever did that before....

re the dog, I posted this in the last thread: there are no links because it did not make the local paper and it was not reported on local radio or TV

it was shared at a NH forum in 2005 by an adult family member of the classmate who JvdS blamed before admitting (under threat of a polis complaint being filed) that he was the one who killed his family's pet

this classmate was the grandson of a former gov't official (who played a part in fallout from the case and whose name is known to most/all who followed the events which transpired relating to the economic boycott)

the identity of this family member, who hosts a blog which covers local politics/etc and existed long before the NH case, was verified by the forum admin. and this person was widely known to be credible in many/various matters on the island

I understand the need to provide documentation whenever possible, but there are events which occur in every family w/o resulting media links and they are nonetheless valid events

 

[Bobbisangel]

Exactly. Look at who he victimised in the household - the family dog, and his youngest brother... i.e. the most loved, and the most vulnerable. They all must have been devastated when these two incidents occurred..well, everyone except Joran of course. I'm sure they were afraid of him, of what would happen if they pushed him / confronted him. Who else would he harm? (Well, sadly, I guess we know don't we?)

So this is how they dealt with Joran, first they banished him to the 'guest house' in the garden. After Natalee, he was sent to the Netherlands for school, then (after he was asked to leave), they sent him to Thailand.

Far, far away.

I definitely have issue with the fact that more wasn't done to deal with his violence. I also think the officials in Aruba should have been informed by his parents of his violent past.

Let his story be a lesson.

I would imagine it has been really hard for Anita since her husband has been gone if Joran was back at home. He has no respect for women and I think that includes his mother. I just think that she might have been afraid of him herself. He probably wouldn't think a thing of knocking her on her rear or hitting her across the face if she wouldn't give him what he wanted. If the truth be known she was probably so relieved every time he took off. Maybe she is relieved that he is in Peru and will be locked up for years and years and she won't have to worry about herself or her other boys. She knows where he is and that he can't hurt another girl. I know I would be relieved.

 

[FLNY]

There is no credible evidence that Joran ever killed a dog. If you have some, please provide a link. As for his youngest brother, what did he do to him? Bully him? Gee, no older brother ever did that before....

Someone posted here previously that he beat his younger brother to the point he needed to be hospitalized....that time, Joran was put into therapy.

 

[Melanie]

re the dog, I posted this in the last thread: there are no links because it did not make the local paper and it was not reported on local radio or TV

it was shared at a NH forum in 2005 by an adult family member of the classmate who JvdS blamed before admitting (under threat of a polis complaint being filed) that he was the one who killed his family's pet

this classmate was the grandson of a former gov't official (who played a part in fallout from the case and whose name is known to most/all who followed the events which transpired relating to the economic boycott)

the identity of this family member, who hosts a blog which covers local politics/etc and existed long before the NH case, was verified by the forum admin. and this person was widely known to be credible in many/various matters on the island

I understand the need to provide documentation whenever possible, but there are events which occur in every family w/o resulting media links and they are nonetheless valid events

I hear ya -- but I'd like to hear it from AVS's mouth. It could still be a rumor, or as I like to say "chinese whispers". For example, I have a family member that I do not get along with -- she says horrible things about me, and by the time it gets to me, it's like OMG - are you kidding me? None of it is ever true.

Anyone who doesn't like JVS can say pretty much whatever they want, huh?

Best,

Mel

ETA: THE FOLLOWING ARE SIMPLY WEB RUMORS:

1. Joran van Der Sloot allegedly murders his dog and then tries to blame an innocent school mate.

2. When Sebastian van der Sloot, Joran van der Sloot brother was seven years old, Joran allegedly beat him up so badly that Sebastian had to be hospitalized and almost died.

3. Joran van der Sloot at 15 allegedly throws a classmate through a plate glass window.

 

[gramcracker]

I'm not sure why he will explain later, my guess was he needed to think of more lies to tell.

in light of the current lies/avoiding responsibility/blaming the victim, and the PLE psych report (not respecting females):


A Current Affair/2005: One day I will explain exactly what happened but right now I don't feel ready to do that.

No thanks, I don't really want to give any comment. (followed by 30+ minute interview)

... if Natalee is really missing and if something bad really happened to Natalee ...

I don't like the way people are boycotting Aruba; that so many people are suffering because one person is missing.

She was very nice.

I didn't have any feelings toward her because I just met her that night.

I know me and my friends lied and I'm really sorry for that.

I hope she's fine.

I lied because I was scared and that's the truth because I didn't want to admit leaving her alone at the beach.

And that's the truth.

First of all, she was eighteen and I was seventeen.

I don't respect her (Beth Twitty) going on TV and boycotting Aruba.

I told the truth and I know she knows the truth because I know she read most of the statements in the case.

Look what she is doing to the island.

I am not hiding anything.

My worst nightmare is if something bad happened to Natalee.

It makes no sense to boycott an island that depends on tourism.

I don't blame them for pointing fingers at me. (grins)

All the evidence shows nothing bad happened.

I don't want to be talking right now. (laughs)

I don't have one thing to say to Beth.

I was in the wrong place, at the wrong time, maybe with the wrong people.

First of all it is none of your business what happened on the beach (laughs), that's part of the investigation.

Yes, I was seeing someone. Yes, I cheated on this other person with her.

It was her. It was Natalee who asked me to go out with her. It was her that asked me to go to the club. It was her who was yelling at me to dance with her. It was her that wanted to come with us.

I didn't even know who Natalee Holloway was when her parents showed up at my door the next day with her picture.

I've never touched a girl in an aggressive way in my life. (laughs)

It was totally her choice to stay in the car.

(scratches nose) I don't know what happened.

I was the last guy who admitted to being with her. (laughs)

I didn't do anything against the law.

One day I will explain exactly what happened but right now I don't feel ready to do that.

People can think what they want. (smiles)

I am an . What did I do? There is nothing I can do about it now. If I had that moment back, I would make sure she got back to the hotel safely.

I didn't think anything really bad happened to her.

Lying is not a crime; even if it interferes with a police investigation, it is still not a crime.

I would love someone to come and tell me I did worse because I had never touched a girl in an aggressive way in my life. (laughs)

[did you have sex w/ NH?] First of all (smiles) that is none of your business, it is absolutely none of your business.

I really don't care what people think of me.

I don't want people to think I had no feelings.

I don't respect the mother.

It doesn't make sense for her to make other people suffer.

_ _ _


w/ GvS in Asia/2008 re alleged phone conversation between JvdS and Pvd being offered for sale:

van Susteren: What we agreed on is that I would license the chip. The problem is the chip came with issues with it. And so now I am in the position where I've got to try to tell my company that this is a possibility that this happened. And they're going to say, well, if he won't even corroborate, then this is all just basically (expletive deleted).

And I don't know, what do I tell them?

van der Sloot: I guess you can tell them whatever you want, but I'm not going to go say all that.

van Susteren: I want the truth only.

van der Sloot: I understand.

van Susteren: Why won't you tell us the truth?

van der Sloot: BECAUSE THE TRUTH HURTS.

van Susteren: I understand that. I mean, that I get. OK? Sit down a second. Sit down.

van der Sloot: (inaudible). Maybe we can take a break now. Let's take a break for a second.

van Susteren: All right, but you know what, Joran, I understand the truth hurts.

van der Sloot: NO, YOU DON'T.

van Susteren: I understand that. I actually do.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

 

[gramcracker]

I hear ya -- but I'd like to hear it from AVS's mouth. It could still be a rumor, or as I like to say "chinese whispers". For example, I have a family member that I do not get along with -- she says horrible things about me, and by the time it gets to me, it's like OMG - are you kidding me? None of it is ever true.

Anyone who doesn't like JVS can say pretty much whatever they want, huh?

Best,

Mel

I hear ya, as well

(BTW, my sister-in-law is a Chinese whisperer. I feel your pain/ouch)

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I would imagine it has been really hard for Anita since her husband has been gone if Joran was back at home. He has no respect for women and I think that includes his mother. I just think that she might have been afraid of him herself. He probably wouldn't think a thing of knocking her on her rear or hitting her across the face if she wouldn't give him what he wanted. If the truth be known she was probably so relieved every time he took off. Maybe she is relieved that he is in Peru and will be locked up for years and years and she won't have to worry about herself or her other boys. She knows where he is and that he can't hurt another girl. I know I would be relieved.

Oh I agree, don't get me wrong I have a lot of sympathy for Anita, I also agree that she may have been afraid of him. My point was more along the lines of what is your social responsibility if you are aware that your child has been violent in the home, if you also find out he was the last person to be seen with a girl that has disappeared.

 

[Unreals]

I don't believe that he was tricked into making a confession....they don't even need a confession from him with all of the evidence they have...took his bloody clothes with him and kept them in his back pack the whole time he was on the run....the video outside of the door of his room with the two coffee cups...him knowing her injurys before they were even talked about in the news...him knowing what killed her...and on and on.

If he had been told wrong about the paperwork and the attorney was working for the pros it would serve Joran right. Remember Aruba when his dad said "no body no crime" and the body disappeared...he was treated differently then other men in jail when he was in there...Aruba didn't go out of their way to find Natalee or any evidence because Joran was a judge's son.
If this were true Joran would just be getting a little feel of what it is like to be on the other side with no daddy looking after him. It's not true though...Joran is just lying like is his habit...trying every way that he can to get away with another murder. They aren't buying his lies though and he is going to go to prison for many years when the three judges are done with this horrible thing that he did to that poor girl. He slaughtered her for no reason in this world except that she must have told him NO.

You must surely be aware that, in the latest manifestation of the crime scene, officials are claiming that Joran's bloody shirt was the actual murder weapon, used to strangle her and left behind on her body. To some of us, this contrasts sharply with the earlier reports you mention, where it was stated that Joran had his bloody clothes on him when he was apprehended.

But now they are also saying that Stephany had a fractured skull. What happened to the broken neck, and how did they miss the fractured skull for so long? Kind of like all those stab wounds, baseball bat, tennis racket, etc.

 

[Unreals]

Thread #11, Post #340

Beatrice
re the killing of the dog:

"five years ago I belonged to a NH forum where many arubans posted and one in particular had a post count in the 1000s. her location was verified by the forum admin and, in addition, the link to her aruban blog was included in her sig line so her R/L identity was well known. let's call this poster "A"

A's mother has a cousin who was a former gov't official and a peripheral part of the investigation. let's call the cousin "B"

B has a grandson who was a classmate of JvdS. JvdS killed his dog and put the blame on B's grandson. B's extended family was livid and threatened to go to the Polis and file a complaint, which caused JvdS to admit that he had killed his dog and thrown the remains into the Moko pond (near the VdS home)

this dog-killing situation was commented on by other aruban posters at that forum as well, because it was common knowledge in their circle

the quote "killing animals is the least of his problems" came from another aruban at that forum, who was making small talk w/ a staff member at the mental health clinic where JvdS was undergoing anger management counseling (and this second poster's daughter was also receiving counseling, hence the chit chat w/ the staff)" no media links and perhaps not helpful in terms of validity, but FWIW that's how it went down" GramCracker:

"Thank you for verifying this event as true. What was never clear is HOW he killed the dog. Still, can you imagine killing the family dog!!?? After being found out, Joran bragged about this on the school bus. Just like he bragged about being with Natalee on the bus."

The beating of the youngest brother was discussed on BlogTalkRadio...Steph Watts perhaps, I am still looking for the source, will post when have it.

There are a lot more anonymous Arubans who reported that Beth and company were acting outrageously on the island. Do you consider those sources credible?

 

[Bobarino]

Have you people seen the photos of the facial injuries?
They are horrible. Not sure what to do here.

 

[Bobarino]

Unreals:

I appreciate your contrarian views here, despite the flack you get!

RE your "fractured skull", that is nothing new at all. COD was listed some time ago already as two fold
1. Trauma to the Cranium (skull) and Brain
2. Cervical spine truams (aka broken neck)