Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #18

[Bobarino]

# 2 should be Cervical spine trauma

 

[Bobarino]

No answer yet...

But since this goes to the COD just referenced, I will post them below.

But please if you are squeamish, do NOT click on the images.

http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim//2010/06/21/slootcrimescene_08_062110.jpg

http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim//2010/06/21/slootcrimescene_07_062110.jpg

 

[costalpilot]

Again, this is only my speculation, and I certainly can't find concrete evidence for it, but....I suspect that the reason for this long delay is because there actually wasn't such a delay. In other words, Stephany died long after Joran left the hotel, which left those responsible scrambling to find a reason for why so much time elapsed before the room was checked.

The most logical guess I can make is that Stephany was supposed to be involved in the "sting" or trap, or whatever it was that had been planned for Joran. She felt remorse, gave him a head's up, after which he left and it took a few days until her betrayal was discovered. That's why the uncut video from that security camera would be crucial evidence, to determine exactly what activity, if any, occurred in Joran's room after he left. Of course, any entrance or exit from his room necessarily proves him innocent.

Btw, there is a better translation out there (sorry, no link- it's from a site WS doesn't want linked to) of the Dutch article from yesterday, regarding the security camera. It is now clear that these reporters claim to have actually visited the hotel, and maintain that there was no camera outside room 309 prior to Joran being there, and it has been removed since the murder. Now, it may be that the authorities confiscated the camera for their investigation. However, if these reporters have some kind of evidence (testimony of long time hotel staff, perhaps?) that a camera was only installed at this spot after Joran rented that room, then I think it's pretty clear evidence that he was being monitored by somebody, for some purpose.

bolded by me...if you were in any kind of class situation, you would get a severe low grade for saying..."I have no evidence but i think the time of death is different than the coroners office otd."

even johnny cochran bless his soul couldn't explain that one. even in america a statement like that would be impossible to defend.

its your opinion, NO FACTS, against scientific evidence. maybe you could get dr. lee to explain it. he might could muddle up the water. but hes not coming down. i doubt he wants to deal with fact finders.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

No answer yet...

But since this goes to the COD just referenced, I will post them below.

But please if you are squeamish, do NOT click on the images.

http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim//2010/06/21/slootcrimescene_08_062110.jpg

http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim//2010/06/21/slootcrimescene_07_062110.jpg

OH! I wish I hadn't clicked that.

 

[Bobarino]

OH! I wish I hadn't clicked that.

Sorry.

But it looks like we are back to the elbow. Needed for what seems like a massive blow to the nose.

 

[Philly]

What would make Joran to dispise women so bad to lead to murder???

That's one of my questions also. I've heard about killers going after women after a childhood of abuse. We read about sons of prostitutes killing women (and in their minds they're killing their mothers over and over again). I just don't understand JVS's hatred of women. Unless he was following his male role model's attitudes toward the female sex. IMO

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Sorry.

But it looks like we are back to the elbow. Needed for what seems like a massive blow to the nose.

I'm thinking an elbow isn't hard / sharp enough to create that kind of injury. I'm thinking he slammed her face into the corner wooden bed frame. I'm glad you posted that, it's important to see the truth.

 

[marikesh]

You must surely be aware that, in the latest manifestation of the crime scene, officials are claiming that Joran's bloody shirt was the actual murder weapon, used to strangle her and left behind on her body. To some of us, this contrasts sharply with the earlier reports you mention, where it was stated that Joran had his bloody clothes on him when he was apprehended.

But now they are also saying that Stephany had a fractured skull. What happened to the broken neck, and how did they miss the fractured skull for so long? Kind of like all those stab wounds, baseball bat, tennis racket, etc.

Different sources of media, improper translations, failure to recheck sources and info.
A body swells due to bacteria of decomposition. It's easy for an untrained eye to make a mistake. We have heard of these through the brother who had to ID his sister, and I doubt he spent alot of time surveying the carnage, and even if he did, his mind was swirling with disbelief and pain. From snippets of what he said, reporters took off. Same as with any other case of missing and murdered.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

That's one of my questions also. I've heard about killers going after women after a childhood of abuse. We read about sons of prostitutes killing women (and in their minds they're killing their mothers over and over again). I just don't understand JVS's hatred of women. Unless he was following his male role model's attitudes toward the female sex. IMO

If he is a true psychopath his motivation would have been the feeling of power and dominance the acts of violence would produce. He would have just enjoyed acts of destruction for their own sake.

 

[froginTtown]

If he is a true psychopath his motivation would have been the feeling of power and dominance the acts of violence would produce. He would have just enjoyed acts of destruction for their own sake.

and mix in alot of disrepect, and no remorse for his actions and total disregard for human life and you get a Joran VanDerSloot.....:loser:

 

[marikesh]

Is this lady the PR manager for Anita?

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/3626/06222010amigoereneegiel.jpg

Renee Gielen and John van den Heuval? Remember Renee is the lady who did the Documentary claiming that Natalee ran away because she was pregnant with a relatives child and other atrocious gossip she collected of the worst forums around. Anita stood by Renee and her Documentary.
PM me if you want to know a list of her followers as they are all now tied into saving Joran at all costs and turning this conspiracy theory right to Beth in Alabama. Talk is cheap and I don't think that the Peruvian LE and Justice system are reading forums or cotton to such crap. JMHO.

 

[Bobarino]

I'm thinking an elbow isn't hard / sharp enough to create that kind of injury. I'm thinking he slammed her face into the corner wooden bed frame. I'm glad you posted that, it's important to see the truth.

Well you are right in that slamming her face into a wall or bed frame could do that. But I have broken many boards with my elbows, it is a massive weapon.

In my original scenario, I wrote that, based on what he said (and assuming at least partial lies) she might have been held against a wall which would magnify the front wound and also fracture the back of her skull as well from the same strike.

I think I saw today that several (maybe 3) skull fractures were said to be present. If so, that may indicate more than 1 strike. Unless he threw her to the floor, or her own unconscious fall to the ground (or bed post first) might have caused another fracture. The strike to the nose IMO would likely have immediately rendered her unconcious (and cause her to fall if she had been standing) and with significant brain injury.

These horrific views indicate that her nose may have been smashed into her skull. Sad if I was right about that. I think I see a separate bulge under the right eye. Not sure if that had to be a separate blow, or if some of the nasal damage moved over to there. The face looks much more swollen in one photo than the other. I wonder if it is lighting, or it almost looks like they were not taken at the same time.

IMO above.

 

[Lola]

Joran says he has been framed he'll explain later.

That's his mantra.

 

[Philly]

Again, this is only my speculation, and I certainly can't find concrete evidence for it, but....I suspect that the reason for this long delay is because there actually wasn't such a delay. In other words, Stephany died long after Joran left the hotel, which left those responsible scrambling to find a reason for why so much time elapsed before the room was checked.

The most logical guess I can make is that Stephany was supposed to be involved in the "sting" or trap, or whatever it was that had been planned for Joran. She felt remorse, gave him a head's up, after which he left and it took a few days until her betrayal was discovered. That's why the uncut video from that security camera would be crucial evidence, to determine exactly what activity, if any, occurred in Joran's room after he left. Of course, any entrance or exit from his room necessarily proves him innocent.

Btw, there is a better translation out there (sorry, no link- it's from a site WS doesn't want linked to) of the Dutch article from yesterday, regarding the security camera. It is now clear that these reporters claim to have actually visited the hotel, and maintain that there was no camera outside room 309 prior to Joran being there, and it has been removed since the murder. Now, it may be that the authorities confiscated the camera for their investigation. However, if these reporters have some kind of evidence (testimony of long time hotel staff, perhaps?) that a camera was only installed at this spot after Joran rented that room, then I think it's pretty clear evidence that he was being monitored by somebody, for some purpose.

A question about your theory: If Stephany was alive for days after Joran left, what was she doing in the room during that period of time? Wouldn't you think that once he left, she would also leave? Also, if she was killed days after Joran left, how can you explain the state of decomposition?

 

[marikesh]

Well you are right in that slamming her face into a wall or bed frame could do that. But I have broken many boards with my elbows, it is a massive weapon.

In my original scenario, I wrote that, based on what he said (and assuming at least partial lies) she might have been held against a wall which would magnify the front wound and also fracture the back of her skull as well from the same strike.

I think I saw today that several (maybe 3) skull fractures were said to be present. If so, that may indicate more than 1 strike. Unless he threw her to the floor, or her own unconscious fall to the ground (or bed post first) might have caused another fracture. The strike to the nose IMO would likely have immediately rendered her unconcious (and cause her to fall if she had been standing) and with significant brain injury.

These horrific views indicate that her nose may have been smashed into her skull. Sad if I was right about that. I think I see a separate bulge under the right eye. Not sure if that had to be a separate blow, or if some of the nasal damage moved over to there. The face looks much more swollen in one photo than the other. I wonder if it is lighting, or it almost looks like they were not taken at the same time.

IMO above.

An ex-police officer once told me that if one is being followed and apprehended by an assailant, the first and best move is to use either the closed fist or elbow and jam hard at the nose in an upward and inward swing to disable the assailant. Joran very likely killed her with that alone, yet went right off his rocker and kept up with the carnage.

 

[Bobarino]

I saw today new video (for me anyway) of "Terror" Jaap on Dutch TV doing the lie detector and Voice Stress Analyis on Joran. And he instantly loses it at one point--tosses a glass and whatever else was on the table as rises up and leaves. I think when confronted with a lie. It is not really translated, but talked about after the fact. They were telling him that they could tell he was trying to fake the lie detector by altering his breathing and tightening his sphincter muscle. (And now there sure is much internet mocking of his new found need for such muscle training.)

But the way he seemingly went berserk suddenly, when on camera, may give some indication of what he may be like when not on camera, or alone with a small young woman.

At the same time, Jaap talked about the 2 of themplaying. Chess, and if Joran is good at it, that certianly takes both intellignece and concentration.

So certain specific things seem to set him off. He doesn't like to be called a liar. Probably especially when he is lying.

 

[hollyblue]

That's one of my questions also. I've heard about killers going after women after a childhood of abuse. We read about sons of prostitutes killing women (and in their minds they're killing their mothers over and over again). I just don't understand JVS's hatred of women. Unless he was following his male role model's attitudes toward the female sex. IMO

I think JVS treated everyone with disdain and disrespect at one time or another. I think the issue with women...was that it was easier. He could charm them. He was a good study of what buttons to push and when.....they were easier to lie to and manipulate than his guy pals. We don't like to be lied to, but we don't like to feel we have misjudged..and seen as a XXXXX and make others feel bad. We're nurturers. Remember Melody saying he would say she MUST believe him and doubled down. Pretty intimidating for a young girl with insecurities. I don't think women were his only victims though. Remember the dog, his brother, the guy over the bridge, etc and those are ones we have heard about. Lord knows who else has seen his immature rants, raves and finally rage. I really don't know the reasons in NH's case, but I do believe the answer in SF's was money and that awful word "NO"...after his spiraling down to desperation. Maybe the no was heard as loudly in NH's case.?? I know I sure would like it if the judge looked JVS straight in the eyes tomorrow and just said "My ruling in the confession is NO." and see the reaction JVS has in the following 5 seconds. Everything was a game to JVS and people were just his game pieces to move around to suit his want and needs. If he could find a way to make the rat useful in his cell.....they would become best buds. JMO

 

[Bobarino]

An ex-police officer once told me that if one is being followed and apprehended by an assailant, the first and best move is to use either the closed fist or elbow and jam hard at the nose in an upward and inward swing to disable the assailant. Joran very likely killed her with that alone, yet went right off his rocker and kept up with the carnage.

Well there are the separate elbow strikes; upward one, and the horizontal elbow strike. (Bit any angle in between is also possible.) I thought this was more like from a horizontal strike, but I could well be wrong about that. And we do not have a close-up view, which I think I am happy about. Because it is painful to see. I guess the only comfort is that she was likely immediately rendered unconcious.

Which goes to your point, that yes, he admits to making sure she stopped breathing after the elbow strike by strangling and then smothering. We will probably know soon if he left anything out. Whether he was out of control then or was coldly making sure she was not alive to testify against him is in question.

I also saw the injuries to the hand and feet. One toe looked to me (MOO) as if it had been dislocated. And there was bruising near the ankles. Some were speculating about stomping, and that could be, or just from tossing her around at some point.

 

[hollyblue]

Sorry.

But it looks like we are back to the elbow. Needed for what seems like a massive blow to the nose.

Oh, how brutal. Don't know what else to say except RIP Stephany and may God have mercy on JVS.
Teach your daughters and sons about DV and show them love by the guidance of plain humanity. I don't think JVS knew the word.

 

[Bobarino]

I think JVS treated everyone with disdain and disrespect at one time or another. I think the issue with women...was that it was easier. He could charm them. He was a good study of what buttons to push and when.....they were easier to lie to and manipulate than his guy pals. We don't like to be lied to, but we don't like to feel we have misjudged..and seen as a XXXXX and make others feel bad. We're nuturerer. Remember Melody saying he would say she MUST believe him and doubled down. Pretty imtimidating for a young girl with insecurities. I don't think women were his only victims though. Remember the dog, his brother, the guy over the bridge, etc and those are ones we have heard about. Lord knows who else has seen his immature rants, raves and finally rage. I really don't know the reasons in NH's case, but I do believe the answer in SF's was money and that awful word "NO"...after his spiraling down to desperation. Maybe the no was heard as loudly in NH's case.?? I know I sure would like it if the judge looked JVS straight in the eyes tomorrow and just said "My ruling in the confession is NO." and see the reaction JVS has in the following 5 seconds. Everything was a game to JVS and people were just his game pieces to move around to suit his want and needs. If he could find a way to make the rat useful in his cell.....they would become best buds. JMO

There is a 4th alleged episode. I forget when. I think in the last 2-3 years. But not sure. An American male tourist confronted Joran about something Joran said or did regarding his girlfriend. Allegedly the larger Joran pushed him through some plate glass. Others have said there is no proof of any of these events.

I think now that Joran was not given the guest house for facilitating his sexual conquests, but maybe to keep the younger brother alive.