Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #19

[panthera]

NG showing crime scene photos again. Nancy talking about the blood drenched tennis shoes, commenting on the bruises on SF's right hand, DNA found under her nails indicating a life and death struggle. VM talking about the photos being obtained earlier this week, about Joran attempting to clean up the crime scene but everything he used was left in the room. NG asking Jean about how Joran would've asphyxiated SF with his shirt; Jean saying he smothered her with it. Jean saying the basis of the crime was robbery, greater than jewelry, it was her money & car. Jean says photos are quite different than J's confession; photos and injuries to SF are so different from his confession it could greatly hurt him (in court).

Michael G. saying this is felony murder not manslaughter; he doesn't know what J was trying to clean up. Daniel Horowitz saying anniv. of Natalee's disappearance was motive & robbery was an afterthought. DH & PO saying Peruvian LE haven't been scrutinized yet.

 

[suzihawk]

I agree with your final paragraph but I also think the media has been like rabid dogs in this case in comparison. I don't think they would have been satisfied by a simple statement like that coming from Mrs. V S.

JMO

Thanks, Flow. I agree that the media is hounding AVS. But they can't report on anything if she doesn't give them anything, kwim? The Mark Hacking case was also huge, media wise. They sought out his family and hounded them, too.

ETA: We were saying the same thing at the same time, Whome.

 

[sassy_texasbelle2]

I have said it before Mrs. VDS, 99% of the people in the world are not connected in their lifetime to one murder much less two. Time to wake up and see that you did raise a monster.

 

[panthera]

I thought it was reported that Joran removed her jeans after he killed her.

I remember that but now the discussion is the lack of blood on her jeans. I can't figure out though why she would've taken them off and it seems more logical that Joran removed them. Also, if she were already on the floor, couldn't it be possible that blood would only be on the upper half of her body? In looking at the photos, her feet aren't bloody, so I still think he could've taken the pants off afterward. MOO

 

[Coldpizza]

Just curious why you're interested in his age? Something he said?

Hi Panthera, his age hits home to me, same age as my son but for a few months. I have a hard time with this case just for that reason. I only read this thread every other day. Sorry it's just hard for me to fathom his mentality. I follow so many others, serial killers, child molesters, abuse cases.... not a problem. Maybe I know the age, thank goodness for my son and his goodness, but again, this one is a hard one for me.

ps I know you weren't asking me but I had to answer

 

[panthera]

NG caller asking about Joran being found with currency from 12 countries and possible other murder victims. Jean C saying now DNA is on record for him because of this case.....

.....the end

 

[panthera]

Hi Panthera, his age hits home to me, same age as my son but for a few months. I have a hard time with this case just for that reason. I only read this thread every other day. Sorry it's just hard for me to fathom his mentality. I follow so many others, serial killers, child molesters, abuse cases.... not a problem. Maybe I know the age, thank goodness for my son and his goodness, but again, this one is a hard one for me.

ps I know you weren't asking me but I had to answer

No problem and I know you must be talking about your son being Joran's age, right?

 

[Kat]

About her shoes having a lot of blood on them. And whether she had them on or off prior to the murder.

She could have had them off. They might have been close enough to the attack that they she either bleed on them directly, or they were close to where she was lying during the attack (which I think at this point in time continued after she was on the floor incapacitated to some extent).

I looked hard at them yesterday looking to see if I could see spatter, or spatter patterns that we see when someone is standing and has their shoes on when they bleed. I didn't see it but I'm no expert on looking at those kind of things and in fact, I don't remember looking for that on a pair of shoes in any other case. Anyone familiar with what a standing spatter would look like?

Maybe she kicks her shoes off when she goes into a place as she sits down. Some people do, some people don't. I don't know.

Just a possibility to consider.

 

[hollyblue]

bolded by me.

If she had skin under her nails from trying to fight him off, then where are the scratches are on his body? Apparently not his face, but did he have scratches on his torso, arms or hands?

He did have a nick on hands (knuckles). Be nice to see photos in that physical exam we saw in the video. Since she was a soccer player, she may have wacked him a good one in the shins or privates too.

 

[Sanny]

Joy Behar now discussing the VDS case.

 

[suzihawk]

I couldn't have said it any better, but my feelings exactly Suzihawk. TY

I think the difference in MH and JVS, MH finally admitted to the murder under his brother's guidance. ??

That's true, hollyblue. At least Mark Hacking manned up, sotaspeak.

I'm sorry to say that I think Anita (and Paulus, while alive) and the Anthonys are cut from the same cloth in just about every way.

 

[Sanny]

I'm thinking that the DNA under Stephany's nails are hers. He didn't seem to have any scratches on his arms or body......remembering the length of his arms in conjunction with hers. She probably had a difficult time reaching him......and I think she may have been trying to take his hands off her neck and by doing that the blood from her nose got under her nails......just a thought.

 

[Kat]

I remember that but now the discussion is the lack of blood on her jeans. I can't figure out though why she would've taken them off and it seems more logical that Joran removed them. Also, if she were already on the floor, couldn't it be possible that blood would only be on the upper half of her body? In looking at the photos, her feet aren't bloody, so I still think he could've taken the pants off afterward. MOO

I think JDVS is lying his butt off about the attack and how it progressed but that is just my :twocents:

I sat here thinking about it, why not blood on the pants. I came up with one scenario but I'm sure others here can come up with even better ones.

The first blow--a blow to the face (with elbow from JVDS) knocked her back, she fell in such a way that the blood wouldn't have fallen on her pants (or even very much on her shirt). He got on top of her at that point (either sitting on her chest or kneeling on her chest) and unleashed his rage on her face and head.

If we think of that as a possibility Panthera. Do you think he could have removed her pants before he beat her to death or after he beat her to death?

Do you think the above scenario is possible at all? TIA.

 

[Sanny]

Mention was made on NG tonight as to Stephany's head being down when both were walking through the lobby past the check in desk......perhaps she felt embarrassed because the hotel had a reputation for being a 1 or 2 hour room rental.

Could she have felt that the clerk thought of her as a hooker or pick up? thus trying
to hide her face or keep it in a downward position?

 

[Kat]

BRB I do have a thought but my oldest child just called.

 

[panthera]

I think JDVS is lying his butt off about the attack and how it progressed but that is just my :twocents:

I sat here thinking about it, why not blood on the pants. I came up with one scenario but I'm sure others here can come up with even better ones.

The first blow--a blow to the face (with elbow from JVDS) knocked her back, she fell in such a way that the blood wouldn't have fallen on her pants (or even very much on her shirt). He got on top of her at that point (either sitting on her chest or kneeling on her chest) and unleashed his rage on her face and head.

If we think of that as a possibility Panthera. Do you think he could have removed her pants before he beat her to death or after he beat her to death?

Do you think the above scenario is possible at all? TIA.

Yes! That's what I've been thinking of also to explain the lack of blood on her jeans without her having removed them prior to the attack. She could've been unconscious or unable to fight back when he removed them, then discovering the sanitary pad, possibly become enraged even more and thus the extreme overkill. Or he could've removed them afterward to rummage through the pockets for money. MOO

 

[Patty G]

Things AVS stated in the media:

AVS apologized to the family of the woman allegedly killed by her son.

AVS says she's glad her son is in prison.

AVS says: I hope that he gets a chance to talk with the parents of Stephany Flores, and that he can tell them what happened.

I apologize for them ... that he's my son. He's not a monster. He can be very gentle, but it could be that he has bipolar personality. I hope he gets the help," she said.

Note: Poor English used when AVS stated: "I apologize for them, that he's my son" IMO she meant "I apologize to them that he's my son."

He didn't want to listen to his parents.

He didn't listen to me, this last time.

I tried to do my best. I don't think I could have done more.

He's considered an adult right now. He has to do whatever he needs to do, and that is tell the truth (about) what happened.

AVS has found it hard to proclaim her son's innocence, as she has in the Holloway case.

AVS stated: "I think a part of me still wants to believe that it's all a very bad movie. But I thought immediately of the parents of the girl," she said, referring to Flores.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/joran-van-der-sloots-mother-punished-involved-peru/story?id=10986211

 

[hollyblue]

He didn't get that far - looks like just the pants. Don't believe he got her T-shirt, bra, panties off. Struggle>the beating. He wanted a female that night (anniversary); lured her up; etc. She said, No. Repeat of NH murder - IMO, sexually motivated.

Then why only a little drop of blood on the tee. She was bleeding profusely from her nose and head? Splatter everywhere?

 

[panthera]

Then why only a little drop of blood on the tee. She was bleeding profusely from her nose and head? Splatter everywhere?

I'm thinking she was already on the floor. I'm also wondering, wouldn't some of the spatter occur when her neck was snapped? The white shirt seems to have a lot of blood on it, and he supposedly used it to asphyxiate her, so that could explain so little blood on her t-shirt. MOO

 

[Coldpizza]

Good gosh they have him dead to rights, sorry no pun intended. We have to remember that our laws and standards our completely different. He was supposed to appear before a Judge that decides where the case is going. Thats the way it is in Peru. Joran declined.In Peru, that can only bring a stiffer sentence.

From what we heard from the interview from the Dutch reporter that spoke to Anita and interviewed Joran he is studying Peruvian Law. (From the interview last night on NG.)

I had a thought today that this case AGAIN has been brought to International attention that perhaps Human Rights might come in to play and allow Joran some special attention.

Just a thought.