GUILTY Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #22

[suzihawk]

BBM
ITA there. I'm astounded over the messages after he already left for Peru; sure seems something is missing with the connections. Also rethinking what she said to Melody and Melody went ahead and let her e-mail be published, and Anita wasn't upset over it. That is something Anita has done alot of when she wanted something out in the public. She used a forum that is now obsolete to get out what she wanted the public to know and it was usually not what most knew, in other words her story and not necessarily the truth.
As for cheering on at the world cup, in Europe most people will be glued to the TV if not at the games. It's an honour that means alot to many of them and it's a great way to let go of the current pressing problems she has. She does have alot on her plate and it's only mentally healthy imho that she can divert her attention to better things. Even if temporarily.

Oh, I totally understand the importance of the games to the Europeans. And I also understand that Anita may feel the need to 'get on with her life'. I just don't think I'd be seen out partying and drinking in a bar with my son under the circumstances and at this particular point of the grieving process, much less be photographed doing it. I think I'd be keeping a very much lower profile. But that's just me...

 

[marikesh]

Wondering if anyone has cogitated on the circumstances/implications of Joran having to get a key to his hotel room from the front desk on the night he & SF went to his room?

He could have simply forgot it, but I have a feeling that he might try to use the fact that he didn't have the key when devising his third person defense, if he does try that defense (again). That is, he may try to say that he gave his key to someone (like EG), or that he lost it, and this third person must have used the key to kill her. Of course the problem with the third person is the video. Clearly it will NOT show another person entering (the police would certainly have gone after anyone who entered that room between JVS & the hotel employee).

BBM
I did wonder about that, but possibly Joran didn't want to be bothered carrying around a key when there were 24 hour desk attendents at Tac?
Many places have key swipe cards which seem easier to pocket.
The video in total will give what info they need imo.

 

[marikesh]

BBM
ITA there. I'm astounded over the messages after he already left for Peru; sure seems something is missing with the connections. Also rethinking what she said to Melody and Melody went ahead and let her e-mail be published, and Anita wasn't upset over it. That is something Anita has done alot of when she wanted something out in the public. She used a forum that is now obsolete to get out what she wanted the public to know and it was usually not what most knew, in other words her story and not necessarily the truth.
As for cheering on at the world cup, in Europe most people will be glued to the TV if not at the games. It's an honour that means alot to many of them and it's a great way to let go of the current pressing problems she has. She does have alot on her plate and it's only mentally healthy imho that she can divert her attention to better things. Even if temporarily.

Oh, I totally understand the importance of the games to the Europeans. And I also understand that Anita may feel the need to 'get on with her life'. I just don't think I'd be seen out partying and drinking in a bar with my son under the circumstances and at this particular point of the grieving process, much less be photographed doing it. I think I'd be keeping a very much lower profile. But that's just me...

BBM
Oh I understand now and totally agree. In my background we normally honoured our lost loved ones by not engaging in such drinking and partying establsihments for at least a year. If we did it was considered like dancing on thier graves.

 

[Kamille]

BBM
ITA there. I'm astounded over the messages after he already left for Peru; sure seems something is missing with the connections. Also rethinking what she said to Melody and Melody went ahead and let her e-mail be published, and Anita wasn't upset over it. That is something Anita has done alot of when she wanted something out in the public. She used a forum that is now obsolete to get out what she wanted the public to know and it was usually not what most knew, in other words her story and not necessarily the truth.
As for cheering on at the world cup, in Europe most people will be glued to the TV if not at the games. It's an honour that means alot to many of them and it's a great way to let go of the current pressing problems she has. She does have alot on her plate and it's only mentally healthy imho that she can divert her attention to better things. Even if temporarily.

I also noticed in this recent translation that she was no longer actually "planning" to have Joran sent to a facility but was rather only "thinking" about it. I guess she couldn't come up with any proof of anyone in the mental health field that she had discussed this with?

 

[Kamille]

With regards to the missing money, it is also interesting to note that Joran originally stated that he came to Peru with $25,000. He claimed to have received that money from Uri Gellar for a TV production. He even broke it down as $10,000 cash and $15,000 wired to his account. He then went on to mention other amounts though...

41 . Where did that $ 25,000 come from and why has this not shown ?

- I made a TV show about Internet fraud , and for that information I received $ 25,000 from Uri Geller from the Netherlands. First $ 10,000 in cash and then $ 15,000 in my bank account of SNS Bank in the Netherlands. I also have an ABN account. Furthermore I had received $ 9,000 for providing information about the Holloway case one Quinsy John Kelly. A week before I arrived in Peru I had won $ 6,000 in casinos in Aruba. Moreover , I have some poker accounts. I travel around the world with a lot of money playing poker and I am never on. I do not see why I should be doing . It takes only time that questions about the origin of the money .

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6944033/__Verklaring_Joran_van_der_Sloot__.html?p=30,2

So why did he feel the need to account for another $15,000?

 

[suzihawk]

I also noticed in this recent translation that she was no longer actually "planning" to have Joran sent to a facility but was rather only "thinking" about it. I guess she couldn't come up with any proof of anyone in the mental health field that she had discussed this with?

Ohhh... good catch!

I think this is the first time she's even acknowledged that he MAY have killed Natalee as well.

I wonder if she got more money for this newest interview?

 

[Lola]

Although we've never seen a list of what he had on him in Chile -- there was a video of someone counting lots of cash. It was said that he had amounts of various currencies, but it could be that he kept the cash thinking he would need that for the next leg of his escape and it would be easier to use once he got to Santiago whereas if the taxi drivers were willing to take "goods" then he'd be better off. He could always buy a new shirt or whatever and his so-called Ferrari watch is likely to be a cheap knock off he got in the Far East...just a thought.

 

[asiabrasil]

Wondering if anyone has cogitated on the circumstances/implications of Joran having to get a key to his hotel room from the front desk on the night he & SF went to his room?

He could have simply forgot it, but I have a feeling that he might try to use the fact that he didn't have the key when devising his third person defense, if he does try that defense (again). That is, he may try to say that he gave his key to someone (like EG), or that he lost it, and this third person must have used the key to kill her. Of course the problem with the third person is the video. Clearly it will NOT show another person entering (the police would certainly have gone after anyone who entered that room between JVS & the hotel employee).

In many countries including most of South America and Asia, it is normal to always leave your key at the desk when you leave - at least at lower end properties like TAC where I usually stay. They normally have a key drop box prominently displayed. The keys are attached to a large fob which is uncomfortable in your pocket as a reminder to not take it out with you. Also normally the housekeepers check for keys at the desk and if it is not there, will assume the room is occupied and plan on cleaning it last. Some won't clean the room at all as happened at TAC. I've seen various levels of enforcement by hotels on the policy, from not caring if I leave with the key, to screaming for it every time as I leave.

 

[FLNY]

I also wonder where the money has gone. Of course, the money she won earlier in the week, she could have stashed away somewhere herself or paid a debt--who knows. But if Joran had the other money, why did he have to give the taxi drivers watches & "perfumes"? I think there is more we do not know.

Would also be interested in finding out if that expensive necklace her father thinks she had on shows up anywhere---pawn shop whatever. Also, has anyone heard her father speak of her sexual orientation at all? Is this something that would embarrass a man of his stature or standing? Just wondering.

Her family most likely didn't acknowledge her sexual orientation:

"Though living openly as a lesbian, Flores struggled to balance her sexuality with her parents' intense disapproval, her ex-girlfriend Stephanie Jimenez told 'Good Morning America' today.

Jimenez said that Flores had recently been hitting the casinos especially hard, spending thousands of dollars at a time. She described Flores as a good girl whose intense insecurity shaped much of her behavior."

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/TheLaw/jo...al-manhunt-natalee-holloway/story?id=10813490

This may also explain what happened to her $10,000 winnings....she may have gambled a lot of it away!!

MOO

 

[FLNY]

Wondering if anyone has cogitated on the circumstances/implications of Joran having to get a key to his hotel room from the front desk on the night he & SF went to his room?

He could have simply forgot it, but I have a feeling that he might try to use the fact that he didn't have the key when devising his third person defense, if he does try that defense (again). That is, he may try to say that he gave his key to someone (like EG), or that he lost it, and this third person must have used the key to kill her. Of course the problem with the third person is the video. Clearly it will NOT show another person entering (the police would certainly have gone after anyone who entered that room between JVS & the hotel employee).

I believe this was discussed earlier. I've never been to S. America, but in European inns it is customary to leave your room key at the front desk when leaving the hotel and then picking it up when returning. I would imagine this is why VDS doesn't have the room key on him.

 

[asiabrasil]

So you're saying/thinking this might have been a very sick 'celebration' that Joran had planned? A celebration to commemorate what he did 5 years before? I can't wrap hy mind around that. He's sick, but that would be utterly sick...(the kind of sick that puts one away in an asylum forever)
If the FBI sting had not taken place and Joran could not get out of Aruba, Stepheny's life would have been spared. Since she has some resemblance to Melody, I wonder if that is what he saw rather than Stepheny. Melody loved him deeply it seems, since it has carried on for years past her teen years, however she wasn't accepting him as he was and she made it known. His problem was that Melody was not content for him to have his cake and eat it too. That is what most normal people in love expect from thier partner, that they leave their fantasies once committed to one person. I can see that once Joran met Stepheny he was reminded of his rejection by Melody, and that may have been where he began his planning, in his sick mind. IMOO.

Yes that is basically what I'm suggesting, and I don't think it would be out of character at all for Joran. He talked to at least 2 people in the casino extensively about 'picking up chicks', and we know he was good at it but - from what we know he didn't bring any other girls to his room in the days prior. His sex appeal wasn't working in Peru, so he had to devise another scheme to get a girl into his room so he could drug/rape her. As unlikely as this may seem to some, I find it infinitely more plausible than the date being just happenstance. (Odds 1825:1) While I do think it's highly unlikely he planned to kill her, I wouldn't put it past him either.

 

[marikesh]

I also noticed in this recent translation that she was no longer actually "planning" to have Joran sent to a facility but was rather only "thinking" about it. I guess she couldn't come up with any proof of anyone in the mental health field that she had discussed this with?

Well I wondered about that from the beginning, whether it was the beginning of/ or wishful thinking that an insanity plea might be in order to get him out of Peru. Even Joe T. alluded to Joran being "disturbed" and who knows, even if Joe said he wasn't aiding in the case as in 'advising' I don't believe him and many don't. So the Prosecution asked for a separate evaluation which shows that Joran is capable of rational thought and further, a trial.
Having had Joran committed would have been a blow to the family ego.

 

[marikesh]

With regards to the missing money, it is also interesting to note that Joran originally stated that he came to Peru with $25,000. He claimed to have received that money from Uri Gellar for a TV production. He even broke it down as $10,000 cash and $15,000 wired to his account. He then went on to mention other amounts though...

41 . Where did that $ 25,000 come from and why has this not shown ?

- I made a TV show about Internet fraud , and for that information I received $ 25,000 from Uri Geller from the Netherlands. First $ 10,000 in cash and then $ 15,000 in my bank account of SNS Bank in the Netherlands. I also have an ABN account. Furthermore I had received $ 9,000 for providing information about the Holloway case one Quinsy John Kelly. A week before I arrived in Peru I had won $ 6,000 in casinos in Aruba. Moreover , I have some poker accounts. I travel around the world with a lot of money playing poker and I am never on. I do not see why I should be doing . It takes only time that questions about the origin of the money .

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6944033/__Verklaring_Joran_van_der_Sloot__.html?p=30,2

So why did he feel the need to account for another $15,000?

With the FBI sting, Joran was given 10,000. in hand by John Q. Kelly, and another 15,000 was to be wired to his Nl account. How soon does it enter his account? Immediately? Some people have thought that possibly the FBI froze that account immediately, the one where the 15,000 was wired to. I have no way of knowing for sure, but wouldn't that be common practice by FBI? So as not to lose all the money?

 

[marikesh]

Yes that is basically what I'm suggesting, and I don't think it would be out of character at all for Joran. He talked to at least 2 people in the casino extensively about 'picking up chicks', and we know he was good at it but - from what we know he didn't bring any other girls to his room in the days prior. His sex appeal wasn't working in Peru, so he had to devise another scheme to get a girl into his room so he could drug/rape her. As unlikely as this may seem to some, I find it infinitely more plausible than the date being just happenstance. (Odds 1825:1) While I do think it's highly unlikely he planned to kill her, I wouldn't put it past him either.

If that is the case, would he be considered a serial killer? Would we have a replay in another 5 years, if he wasn't apprehended?
Joran seems to need to have complete control over any situation, so I wouldn't put anything past him either. He had to control J.Q. Kelly which I thought was a stupid move as he could get caught much faster, however he didn't exactly think brightly all the time either. He had to control the situation with Jaap in Nl, the book with the co-author in Nl...everything had to go his way always. I can see him 'snapping' when it didn't, so I guess I am saying that the murder of Stepheny couldn't have been premeditated?

 

[suzihawk]

With the FBI sting, Joran was given 10,000. in hand by John Q. Kelly, and another 15,000 was to be wired to his Nl account. How soon does it enter his account? Immediately? Some people have thought that possibly the FBI froze that account immediately, the one where the 15,000 was wired to. I have no way of knowing for sure, but wouldn't that be common practice by FBI? So as not to lose all the money?

But up until the moment he killed Stephany the FBI was supposedly trying to gather more evidence in order to build their case. That's what they said in answer to why they didn't act sooner, IIRC. If they froze the money, it would have tipped him off so I'm thinking they wouldn't do that. Just a guess, though.

If that is the case, would he be considered a serial killer? Would we have a replay in another 5 years, if he wasn't apprehended?
Joran seems to need to have complete control over any situation, so I wouldn't put anything past him either. He had to control J.Q. Kelly which I thought was a stupid move as he could get caught much faster, however he didn't exactly think brightly all the time either. He had to control the situation with Jaap in Nl, the book with the co-author in Nl...everything had to go his way always. I can see him 'snapping' when it didn't, so I guess I am saying that the murder of Stepheny couldn't have been premeditated?

Isn't it true that premeditation can occur literally within minutes before the actual deed? If, in his eyes, she did something that ticked him off and because of it, he decided to kill her, isn't that still premeditation?

 

[Chanler]

I also noticed in this recent translation that she was no longer actually "planning" to have Joran sent to a facility but was rather only "thinking" about it. I guess she couldn't come up with any proof of anyone in the mental health field that she had discussed this with?

Hi, Kamille. Because Anita Van Der Sloot hasn't apparently given any recent interviews reported on Google News or elsewhere, it seems more likely that the "recent translation" is just another foggy English language rendering of the Dutch in her original statements.

http://www.examiner.com/x-41056-Birmingham-Crime-Examiner~y2010m6d21-Joran-van-der-Sloot-has-mental-problems-according-to-his-mother

http://news.lalate.com/2010/06/20/mother-joran-van-der-sloot-is-mentally-sick/

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/06/21/earlyshow/main6603026.shtml

http://www.etonline.com/news/2010/06/88505/

 

[Kamille]

With the FBI sting, Joran was given 10,000. in hand by John Q. Kelly, and another 15,000 was to be wired to his Nl account. How soon does it enter his account? Immediately? Some people have thought that possibly the FBI froze that account immediately, the one where the 15,000 was wired to. I have no way of knowing for sure, but wouldn't that be common practice by FBI? So as not to lose all the money?

Well we know where he got the $10,000 cash and the $15,000 that was wired to his account in the Netherlands and it's obvious that Joran lied in his confession about where he got those funds but why did he feel the need to go on and explain another $9000 and $6000? Were these additional funds that he got from somewhere (Stephany?) that he figured they were going to find out about? Did he deposit those funds in an account sometime when he was in Peru..or Chile?

He said he got the $9000 from Q John Kelly and the $6000 from gambling winnings in Aruba.

 

[Pink Panther]

Well we know where he got the $10,000 cash and the $15,000 that was wired to his account in the Netherlands and it's obvious that Joran lied in his confession about where he got those funds but why did he feel the need to go on and explain another $9000 and $6000? Were these additional funds that he got from somewhere (Stephany?) that he figured they were going to find out about? Did he deposit those funds in an account sometime when he was in Peru..or Chile?

He said he got the $9000 from Q John Kelly and the $6000 from gambling winnings in Aruba.

Odd how it all adds up to the same 15,000 isn't it?

JMO

 

[asiabrasil]

If that is the case, would he be considered a serial killer? Would we have a replay in another 5 years, if he wasn't apprehended?
Joran seems to need to have complete control over any situation, so I wouldn't put anything past him either. He had to control J.Q. Kelly which I thought was a stupid move as he could get caught much faster, however he didn't exactly think brightly all the time either. He had to control the situation with Jaap in Nl, the book with the co-author in Nl...everything had to go his way always. I can see him 'snapping' when it didn't, so I guess I am saying that the murder of Stepheny couldn't have been premeditated?

Just going with the information we have now, I think it would be very hard to convict him of premeditation. That does seem to be the direction PLE is trying to go though...

Serial killer? Not near enough info disclosed yet to even guess, but if it is somehow proved that he took Stepheny to his room intending to murder her, then yeah, I'd call him that.

 

[Kamille]

Isn't it true that premeditation can occur literally within minutes before the actual deed? If, in his eyes, she did something that ticked him off and because of it, he decided to kill her, isn't that still premeditation?

If you go by his confession, Joran had two opportunities for premeditation. The first was just after he apparently elbowed SF in the face and she was bleeding. He decided to strangle her because he feared her calling the police. He then claimed to throw her on the floor but she was still breathing so he smothered her. I'd say these two actions alone would indicate premeditation that he intended to ensure that she was no longer alive, a premeditated action IMO.

MOO