GUILTY Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #24

[annalia]

He won't be off the streets for good - the most he will get is 30 years, so he'll be in his 50's when he gets out. However, Peruvian prisons being what they are - he'll be lucky to last that long.

If he does get out he has an appointment with the FBI waiting for him.

 

[HMSHood]

Which case? The case in Peru? If so, what difference does it make? He was caught red handed. He brutally murdered Stephany and then had coffee. I can't imagine what misinformation or rumors would change the hard, cold, facts of the case.

I understand there are actually people on other forums who are on Joran's side - I'm not shocked. Some people do whatever it takes to get attention, even if it means supporting a man who has taken someone's daughter from them forever. I pray these attention seekers never have to know the pain these parents have had to endure, that they'll have to endure forever.

Those kind of people have issues of their own. Deep seated issues of rejection and loneliness. There are men like that too.

 

[Hazel]

There has been so much disinformation with regards to this case, it is hard to tell the fact from the rumors.

Not sure what you mean by disinformation?
actually in some instances, there seems to be 'misinterpretation' of facts more than disinformation.

Or are you talking about Natalee H's case? Haven't followed her case, but read Wikipedia:
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beth_Holloway"]Beth Holloway - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

which I am hoping contains the most accurate information and sequence of events.

 

[Hazel]

Been reading about BH's prison visit with Van der Sloot. Like I said, I haven't followed NH's story, so you all probably already know about this tape, but to me it was a shocker, and what I don't understand is:

What exactly is BH offering JvDS when she talked to him face to face in Lima, in exchange for information on her daughter's whereabouts?

00:35 mark: "J, I'm here, and I'm here because I know you want your life back, and I want to help you get your life back, that's why I'm here J..........and, and I am here, I am here for you J, to help you.."

02:38 mark: "..... I am here because J, I know you want your life back.."

03:00 mark: "..... and you are looking at spending the rest of your life in prison J, and I know you wanna make a plea deal in Peru, and in Aruba, and the US, and I met with the prosecutors, and I met with the Flores family, and J, I wont do anything until I get some information about Natalee. You are alive, it's too late for Natalee, it's too late for Stephany, it's too late for me, but it's not too late for you J to...to get your life back
and...how can we... you can sit here for the rest of your life, and I can sit here for the rest of my life.
It's....you can make some choices here J, and you can make the right decisions, so you have your whole life ahead of you....'cause I want to know what happened....and I want to move on in my life.....and I can't close the book, and I feel as if....you've lost your father, we've lost another young girl.........J, you don't need to lose your life in prison, and be sitting here when you are 60 years of age, and insisting to me that you don't know what happened; if it was an accident tell me....you know...I don't know, I don't know, but I am up here..."​

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1Hg_doO6RM&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1Hg_doO6RM&feature=related[/ame]

 

[annalia]

Hazel, I have the feeling that whatever BH was planning on saying to him, once she saw him face to face her emotions took over and she got overwhelmed, that's why it comes across like it does.

Was it a mistake for her to even go there? Looking at it as an outsider, maybe we can say that it was. But if it were my child, after over five years of being taunted by the person responsible for my child's disappearance, after seeing him get away time after time, after seeing him protected and my child denograted by people close to him, seeing him make money off of his crime against my child, I don't know what I would do if given the chance to go see him, I might have done it too.

I actually have to applaud her for her restraint, I don't know if I could have held back for more than a minute without putting my hands around his throat wanting to choke the truth out of him.

JMHO

 

[Steely Dan]

I think she might be offering him solitary confinement in exchange for the information. If he's put in the general population he'll probably be killed. The girls family and the prosecutor may have agreed that they could offer that in exchange for info on Natalies disappearance.

 

[annalia]

Since the topic of disinformation came up, I remembered that I had planned to post this before but forgot.

The treaty showing that JVDS could and would have been extradited directly from Aruba to the US.
http://internationalextraditionblog...ba-extradition-treaty-with-the-united-states/

SCHEDULE OF OFFENSES

1. Murder; assault with intent to commit murder.

2. Manslaughter.

3. Malicious wounding; inflicting grievous bodily harm.

4. Arson.

5. Rape; indecent assault; incest; bigamy.

6. Unlawful sexual acts with or upon children under the age specified by the laws of both the Requesting and Requested States.

7. Wilful abandonment of a minor or other dependent person when the life of that minor or that dependent person is or is likely to be injured or endangered.

8. Kidnapping; abduction; false imprisonment.

9. Robbery; burglary; larceny; embezzlement.

10. Fraud, including obtaining property, money or valuable securities by false pretenses, deceit, falsehood, or other fraudulent means.

11. Bribery, including soliciting, offering and accepting.

12. Extortion.

13. Receiving, possessing or transporting anything of value knowing it to have been unlawfully obtained.

14. Offenses relating to criminal breach of trust.

15. An offense against the laws relating to counterfeiting and forgery; including the forging of seals, trademarks, documents, or use of such forgeries.

16. An offense against the laws relating to international transfers of funds.

17. An offense against the laws relating to importation, exportation or transit of goods, articles, or merchandise, including violations of the customs laws.

18. Offenses relating to slavery or the illegal transporting of persons.

19. Offenses against the laws relating to bankruptcy.

20. Offenses against the laws relating to prohibition of private monopoly or unfair trade practices.

21. Perjury; subornation of perjury; making a false statement to a government agency or official.

22. Offenses relating to wilful evasion of taxes and duties.

23. Any act or omission intended or likely to: (a) endanger the safety of an aircraft in flight or of any person on board such aircraft; or (b) destroy or render any aircraft incapable of flight.

24. Any unlawful seizure or exercise of control of an aircraft in flight by force or violence, or by threat of force or violence, or by any other form of intimidation.

25. Any unlawful act or omission intended or that is likely to endanger the safety of any person in a railway train or in any vessel or other means of transportation.

26. Piracy, mutiny, or any mutinous act committed on board a vessel.

27. Malicious damage to property.

28. Offenses against the laws relating to the traffic in, or the possession, production or manufacture of narcotic drugs, cannabis, psychotropic drugs, cocaine and its derivatives, and other dangerous drugs and chemicals.

29. Offenses against laws relating to the poisonous chemicals or substances injurious to health.

30. Offenses against the laws relating to firearms, ammunition, explosives, incendiary devices or nuclear materials.

31. Offenses against the laws relating to the abuse of official authority.

32. Offenses against the laws relating to obstruction of justice.

33. Offenses relating to securities and commodities.

34. Facilitating or permitting the escape of a person from custody.

35. Incitements to violence.

36. Any other act for which extradition may be granted in accordance with the laws of both Contracting Parties.

There is also this from Greta, who spoke directly with the Aruban Attorney General.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,594062,00.html

VAN SUSTEREN: You should know, Bo, I spoke recently in the last half hour to the attorney general in Aruba who said that yes, Aruba does extradite to the United States for financial and fraud crimes

So hopefully before it got out of control, any disinformation that BH, her attorneys or the FBI had hatched a plan to get JVDS out of Aruba and to Peru because they needed him there in order to extradite him, can be put to rest for good.

 

[Hazel]

Hazel, I have the feeling that whatever BH was planning on saying to him, once she saw him face to face her emotions took over and she got overwhelmed, that's why it comes across like it does.

Was it a mistake for her to even go there? Looking at it as an outsider, maybe we can say that it was. But if it were my child, after over five years of being taunted by the person responsible for my child's disappearance, after seeing him get away time after time, after seeing him protected and my child denograted by people close to him, seeing him make money off of his crime against my child, I don't know what I would do if given the chance to go see him, I might have done it too.

I actually have to applaud her for her restraint, I don't know if I could have held back for more than a minute without putting my hands around his throat wanting to choke the truth out of him.

JMHO

I feel so sad for her, what a terrible thing to lose your daughter, and not know what happened nor where she is. I cannot even start to imagine the nightmare she must be in my heart goes out for her.

Was it a mistake for her going there? No, I don't think it was a mistake, I would have probably wanted to do the same if God forbid I'll ever be in that awful situation......however, her going there is not what I am questioning.

I understand she must have been overwhelmed and everything,
had she slapped him, spitted in his face, insulted him, yelled at him, and like you said: "putting my hands around his throat wanting to choke the truth out of him"....ALL that would have been understandable given the circumstances, BUT that is not what happened: she is really calm, and what I am questioning is the significance of what she is telling him...no doubt there is a 'message' in her words.

I am questioning: What is she offering him?

Also, it is VERY clear that it is her who approaches him with a 'deal' or 'offer' or whatever anyone wants to call it. It hurts her own case, because now people are going to wonder if the 'sting' operation initiated on her end, and not what we have been told all this time: that it was him who initiated it by requesting $ in exchange for info.

IMHO her 'offer' is very clear, and that is just plain wrong. He is there for a crime he committed there. Someone needs to let her know it is a sovereign country, and not a US colony. I guess J already learned his lesson that when you go to another country, you are a guest and you need to respect and abide by their laws.

I have been reading that Wikipedia entry [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beth_Holloway"]Beth Holloway - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame] and I am now learning about all the other 'ideas' she had in order to get info out of J. Everything she has tried so far has failed, and not only that, it has made things worst.


I wonder how the US reaction would have been if a Peruvian citizen is smuggled into a US prison, with hidden camera, and makes same offer to a prisoner held there for murdering a US girl. To see things clearly, sometimes is good to reverse things, and see them from another perspective.

 

[annalia]

They are two entirely different and separate things.

His extortion from Aruba is separate from her visit to Peru. It happened before he left Aruba and before Stephany was murdered.
The FBI has that evidence and were the ones who brought the charges way before BH ever went to Peru.


JMHO

 

[otto]

Since the topic of disinformation came up, I remembered that I had planned to post this before but forgot.

The treaty showing that JVDS could and would have been extradited directly from Aruba to the US.
http://internationalextraditionblog...ba-extradition-treaty-with-the-united-states/



There is also this from Greta, who spoke directly with the Aruban Attorney General.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,594062,00.html






So hopefully before it got out of control, any disinformation that BH, her attorneys or the FBI had hatched a plan to get JVDS out of Aruba and to Peru because they needed him there in order to extradite him, can be put to rest for good.

I think there could have been problems in extradicting him for fraud crimes because of the circumstances. Joran approached Beth with a money for information deal. Then, he cancelled the deal. Then Beth contacted him with a money for information deal, and that's when the money was transferred. Furthermore, I think we have to consider whether Beth actually believed that she would receive truthful information from Joran regarding details about what happened to her daughter. Joran had a solid track record of lying in order to get money ... so there should be a question of whether Beth expected to receive the truth and whether she, on the side, expected that she could put Joran in a position where he could be accused of fraud.

 

[Hazel]

I think she might be offering him solitary confinement in exchange for the information. If he's put in the general population he'll probably be killed. The girls family and the prosecutor may have agreed that they could offer that in exchange for info on Natalies disappearance.

I truly hope that is the case, though she goes on and on saying things like:

"I want to help you get your life back"

"I know you want your life back"

"...you can sit here for the rest of your life..."

"it's not too late for you J to...to get your life back"

"...and you can make the right decisions, so you have your whole life ahead of you..."

I truly fail to see an offer for solitary confinement.....it truly sounds more like she is offering an 'alternative' to spending the rest of his life in prison, either freedom or much lesser time...all JMO.

 

[Hazel]

I think there could have been problems in extradicting him for fraud crimes because of the circumstances. Joran approached Beth with a money for information deal. Then, he cancelled the deal. Then Beth contacted him with a money for information deal, and that's when the money was transferred. Furthermore, I think we have to consider whether Beth actually believed that she would receive truthful information from Joran regarding details about what happened to her daughter. Joran had a solid track record of lying in order to get money ... so there should be a question of whether Beth expected to receive the truth and whether she, on the side, expected that she could put Joran in a position where he could be accused of fraud.

I am starting to 'get' what she might be feeling at the moment....if he is sentenced for 30 years, she might be feeling her chances of finding out where N's remains are, will fade away.

...and that thought scares me, scares me because she might be feeling desperate, and when people are desperate they make bad decisions.

I am now wondering what has transpired AFTER that face-to-face visit?

Wouldn't it be better to wait for after he is sentenced? Perhaps then he might have no reason to withheld the 'info' anymore, and make a deal for better 'accommodations'?

All I hope is there is no interference whatsoever now that the trial is about to start....right now it is ALL about STEPHANY!

 

[otto]

I am starting to 'get' what she might be feeling at the moment....if he is sentenced for 30 years, she might be feeling her chances of finding out where N's remains are, will fade away.

...and that thought scares me, scares me because she might be feeling desperate, and when people are desperate they make bad decisions.

I am now wondering what has transpired AFTER that face-to-face visit?

Wouldn't it be better to wait for after he is sentenced? Perhaps then he might have no reason to withheld the 'info' anymore, and make a deal for better 'accommodations'?

All I hope is there is no interference whatsoever now that the trial is about to start....right now it is ALL about STEPHANY!

Beth can say whatever she wants, but she is in no position to negotiate anything for Joran in Peru, or anywhere else for that matter. At this time, Joran is not facing charges related to Ms Holloway's disappearance. There would be no reason for him to implicate himself and face additional jail time, so I think Beth will have to face what many other parents of missing children face ... they will likely never know what really happened .... except ... it's my opinion that Natalee experienced the same violent outburst that resulted in Stefanie's death.

 

[Hazel]

They are two entirely different and separate things.

His extortion from Aruba is separate from her visit to Peru. It happened before he left Aruba and before Stephany was murdered.
The FBI has that evidence and were the ones who brought the charges way before BH ever went to Peru.


JMHO

Not sure if your post is aimed at me or otto.

I do know they are two entirely different and separate things, and that is my point EXACTLY....the trial that is about to begin this Friday is to seek Justice for Stephany!! This is what takes precedence at the moment = justice for Stephany

This is about the crime that he committed in Peru, against a Peruvian citizen, he is in a Peruvian jail, awaiting to be judged in a Peruvian Court, will be sentenced to spend time in a Peruvian prison.

Now you see how bad it looks her entering a foreign country, snicking into a prison to try make a deal with a prisoner, in exchange for information about a crime committed in a country that is not even her own country?

 

[annalia]

Not sure if your post is aimed at me or otto.

I do know they are two entirely different and separate things, and that is my point EXACTLY....the trial that is about to begin this Friday is to seek Justice for Stephany!! This is what takes precedence at the moment = justice for Stephany

This is about the crime that he committed in Peru, against a Peruvian citizen, he is in a Peruvian jail, awaiting to be judged in a Peruvian Court, will be sentenced to spend time in a Peruvian prison.

Now you see how bad it looks her entering a foreign country, snicking into a prison to try make a deal with a prisoner, in exchange for information about a crime committed in a country that is not even her own country?

Sorry Hazel, I should have bolded what I was responding to. It was this part of your post that I was responding to.

Also, it is VERY clear that it is her who approaches him with a 'deal' or 'offer' or whatever anyone wants to call it. It hurts her own case, because now people are going to wonder if the 'sting' operation initiated on her end, and not what we have been told all this time: that it was him who initiated it by requesting $ in exchange for info.

What I was saying is that her saying what she did in Peru is not the same as what happened in Aruba. I don't question what happened in Aruba with his extortion because the evidence was there. And it won't hurt her case because the FBI has the evidence.

I also said looking as an outsider I can say BH going to Peru was a mistake. However putting myself in her shoes, I don't know what I would have done, I may have done the same thing after years of being taunted by the person who did that to my child.

JMHO

 

[redheadedgal]

Now you see how bad it looks her entering a foreign country, snicking into a prison to try make a deal with a prisoner, in exchange for information about a crime committed in a country that is not even her own country?

i fail to see how this looks "bad"... beth is a mother DESPERATE to find answers about her daughter's disappearance... she gets the benefit of every doubt as far as i'm* concerned.

*i've followed this case since day ONE

 

[annalia]

Beth can say whatever she wants, but she is in no position to negotiate anything for Joran in Peru, or anywhere else for that matter. At this time, Joran is not facing charges related to Ms Holloway's disappearance. There would be no reason for him to implicate himself and face additional jail time, so I think Beth will have to face what many other parents of missing children face ... they will likely never know what really happened .... except ... it's my opinion that Natalee experienced the same violent outburst that resulted in Stefanie's death.

My bolding

Maybe you would do that if it was your child, but if my child was murdered or made to disappear and the who did it was still breathing, even if there only were a million to one chance of finding answers and justice, I wouldn't give up until the day I took my last dying breath.

There's no one more important than my dh and children, I would give up my life for them. And if JVDS had done this to my child, BH would look like a creampuff compared to me and my family. My murdered child would deserve the truth and justice, nothing less.


JMHO

 

[redheadedgal]

....right now it is ALL about STEPHANY!

not true imo.

jvds will never be charged with natalee's death -unless a true confession is given- so him being charged, sentenced and imprisoned for the death of stephany will also bring justice for natalee.

 

[redheadedgal]

I am questioning: What is she offering him?

i don't believe she is offering him anything as much as it may sound like it to some. she just wants answers!

her lawyer, john kelly agrees:

However, Kelly said his client may have decided to go to the prison after Van der Sloot's most recent jailhouse interview to a Dutch TV reporter.

"I think what triggered it was that he said in this interview that she had been pestering him," Kelly added. "The message was, 'If you thought you'd been pestered before, you ain't seen nothing yet.' I just think she wanted him to know she wasn't going away."

Kelly said Holloway's visit had nothing to do with the extortion case against Van der Sloot in the U.S. Federal prosecutors charged him in earlier this year for allegedly extorting money in exchange for information about Holloway.

"This had nothing to do with the case. It was a mother trying to bring her daughter home," he said.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/39225...lloways-mother-sneaks-jail-confronts-suspect/

 

[fran]

What does JFTR mean?

Joran did cancel his arrangement with Ms Hollaway's mother. She contacted the FBI and the Dutch Television station, and then initiated contact with Joran suggesting that she wanted to pursue his offer to give him money in exchange for him telling her where her daughter could be found. He made the offer, he cancelled the offer, she pursued it. He went along with it and I understood that he received $10k, but perhaps it was the full $25k that he originally mentioned. I thought her offer made it closer to $10k and that he counted it out in the hotel under the watchful eye of the FBI and her lawyer ... a bit like a sting. FBI were notified by Aruban authorities that Joran had left the Island and was on his way to Peru. He was vulnerable to being sent (expelled or extradicted) to the US after leaving Aruba, which was exactly what FBI and Ms Holloway's mother were hoping - they just didn't get the paperwork done fast enough (unlike the Chileans/Peruvians with their May 13 date). The Dutch Television crew was probably in it for the ratings ... as it was they had to settle for flying Ms Holloway's mother to Peru, sneak her into the jail and let her finally say what she had to say. Peter was sure disappointed with that interview!

Do you have a link to OFFICIAL documents that show Joran cancelled the extortion attempt? Was it before the initial $25K payment, or after? Or was it before he got the $100 to show good faith, so he'd continue to negotiate the $25K and ????? Or was it after he received the $25K and had given FALSE info to Kelly about where Natalee was buried?

IMHO, he did NOT cancel the extortion.

He was angry when Kelly met with him the first time, because he was supposed to bring the $$$$$$$$$$$$ and didn't. But all Kelly had to do to get him talking to him again was float $100 his way. Then Joran said it would be $250K and Kelly was to bring the $25K with him, to give Joran as good faith. The rest was to be paid after the recovery of Natalee.

It appears he WISHED he could have gotten $250K, but his intent was at least the $25K before his lie was discovered.

At least after he's done serving whatever time for murdering Stafani, he'll then come to the U.S. and serve time here as well.

I hope Beth {haunts} him every day of his imprisonment! I also hope she's still here to greet Joran as he does the perp walk when he's brought to the U.S. to be tried and serve time for extortion and wire fraud! :behindbar:

JMHO
fran



http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/37635...ney-details-van-der-sloot-sting/#.TwIXPNRAbZ0