Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #3

[justbetweenus]

hmm...interesting. If she offered him a ride back to his hotel, i wonder why her car was found so far away from the hotel (that is what has been reported correct??)

ETA: if he can be placed as having to move the vehicle away from the hotel, that shoots his 'i went for coffee and came back and she was dead' defence in the foot!!

Hi kwatmac. It is in this newsweek article that Joran is seen on surveilance leaving the hotel in Stephany's vehicle.

http://www.newsweek.com/2010/06/04/the-murder-in-peru-that-led-to-van-der-sloot-chase.html

 

[beach]

OK, I guess I'm confused on the order of events. I thought he was already in South America when the "extortion" :waitasec: happened. If not, my guess is that they were not prepared to arrest him at that time but were waiting for something else (like the info he'd promised to provide) and, of course, had no way of knowing he would be committing another murder in the meantime.

Extortion for purposes of this law is defined as follows: The term “extortion” means the obtaining of property from another, with his consent, induced by wrongful use of actual or threatened force, violence, or fear, or under color of official right.

Bottom line - many people, most blatantly vocal Greta Van Sustren, have been blaming the FBI for not arresting Joran sooner, before he had another chance to murder again.


I just know that those authorities aren't psychic. He has been doing the same thing (gambling) for the past 5 years. There was no way of knowing that he would use the $15k to go on a murder excursion in South America within 2 weeks of collecting the $15k down-payment. It appears to me it was a 'sting' operation and the feds weren't ready to arrest. Looks to me like they were waiting on more.

I just hate the Monday morning quarter-backing, iykwim. Hindsight is always 20/20. I think enough people have suffered w/o placing any more blame.

I am not saying that we can't learn, but sheesh.... No way they could have known he was gonna to do this.

 

[kwatmac]

I totally agree with you darnudes, though it happens it is not a common occurrence in Peru.
It was a common occurrence in Chile (not Peru) years ago, IIRC, during the Pinochet regime?

I think the brother meant that it is common among wealthy families (like hers) because the kidnappers assume a large ransom will be paid. I don't think he meant common among everyone in the country. Just a possible alternate interpretation.

 

[burbqueen]

Poor Joran couldn't get a date! Boo hoo...he has the total creep factor. I wonder what other women turned him down in Peru and how they feel? It could have been any of them dead instead of Stephany. Jeez.

 

[Beyond Belief]

Express kidnappings," in which criminals kidnap victims and seek to obtain funds from their bank accounts via automatic teller machines, occur frequently.

Peru
Country Specific Information
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_998.html

 

[darnudes]

Basically this is what is going to happen:

- His family may stump up the money for a defense lawyer in Lima, they will have to have one from Lima/Peru who understands the law and the language.
- He may get assistance pro bono from a US lawyer but this will not be enough he will have to have a local lawyer.
- If he has no money and his family won't pay then he will be given a public defender who will file the paperwork and not much else, he will get close to no assistance for his trial, no private investigators, no expert witnesses, none of the Casey like carnival.
- His jail time before and after conviction will have to be fully self funded - you get next to nothing for free in a Peruvian jail.

 

[SoCalSleuth]

I totally agree with you darnudes, though it happens it is not a common occurrence in Peru.
It was a common occurrence in Chile (not Peru) years ago, IIRC, during the Pinochet regime?

Peru is one of the top 10 countries for kidnappings each year--estimated to be between 100-200 a year. About 1 in 10 are reported to the public. I have very wealthy friends living in Peru and when a mutual friend just went to visit for 2 weeks they hired a body guard to escort her everywhere because of the kidnapping threat. I declined the trip due to this reason.

 

[kwatmac]

Hi kwatmac. It is in this newsweek article that Joran is seen on surveilance leaving the hotel in Stephany's vehicle.

http://www.newsweek.com/2010/06/04/for-van-der-sloot-the-end.html

Thanks!!!

I can't wait to see all the other evidence to support his guilt

 

[suzihawk]

OK, I guess I'm confused on the order of events. I thought he was already in South America when the "extortion" :waitasec: happened. If not, my guess is that they were not prepared to arrest him at that time but were waiting for something else (like the info he'd promised to provide) and, of course, had no way of knowing he would be committing another murder in the meantime.

Extortion for purposes of this law is defined as follows: The term “extortion” means the obtaining of property from another, with his consent, induced by wrongful use of actual or threatened force, violence, or fear, or under color of official right.

No worries... this case can easily confuse the best of 'em.

The 15 grand was wired 4 days prior to him going to South America and it's speculated that he used to money to fund his trip. People are calling for heads to roll re: the FBI, although they had no way of knowing what would happen. So the question came up as to whether or not he could have been arrested anyway.

I guess I'm confusing extortion with blackmail. I'm thinking about the David Letterman case (as someone waaayy up-thread used as an example). Someone was charged with extortion (and won, if I'm not mistaken) when they threatened to expose him as a philanderer. Isn't this the same type of thing?

It's difficult to sort it all out. Thanks for your help!!! :blowkiss:

 

[gardenhart]

I agree, Macon. It all seemed to be too convenient, but if they hunted him down and arrested him I guess he must have done it.

Personally I am surprised that the Peruvian justice system would turn out to be less corrupt than that of a developed country like Aruba. [I don't know very much about either country except what I have heard on the cable talk shows like GVS & NG so I don't know why I would be surprised.]

Don't forget in Aruba, it was Joran's father who was prominent and influential. In Peru, it's the victim's father who is prominent and influential.

And, I don't think the Aruban authorities who did cover up ever expected Natalee's disappearance would warrant the worldwide attention it did. Makes you wonder if other wrongdoing by Joran had been covered up prior to Natalee, doesn't it?

 

[darnudes]

I think the brother meant that it is common among wealthy families (like hers) because the kidnappers assume a large ransom will be paid. I don't think he meant common among everyone in the country. Just a possible alternate interpretation.

I just want to clear up any ascertains the kidnapping is common in Peru, it isn't, you are more likely to be kidnapped in the US.

 

[fran]

Just in case it hasn't been provided and if anyone is interested, here's a link to the closed Natalee Holloway Websleuth's forum.

fran


[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=78"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

Natalee Holloway

 

[darnudes]

Express kidnappings," in which criminals kidnap victims and seek to obtain funds from their bank accounts via automatic teller machines, occur frequently.

Peru
Country Specific Information
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_998.html

I could pull up just as many stats about many other countries. I lived in Peru for quite a long time and in my opinion it is no worse than other countries including some western ones. If you have first hand knowledge I would be happy to hear it.

 

[3doglady]

I followed that case like a freak, but was not a member of WS during that time so I was not privvy to all the terrific sleuthing and resources available here. I totally agree that emotions can cloud judgment.

If you haven't watched the video of Jug Twitty released yesterday by the local CBS affiliate, I urge you to see it. He seems to have really calmed down and reflected over the past 5 years. What really struck me during that was when he referred to the first night they got down to Aruba - within 24 hrs of Natalee's disappearance. Jug said they tracked down Joran immediately and was standing at Joran's car - Joran and Deepak were both there and he asked them where they had been. They said they had just returned from the casino. However, Jug said they were sweaty, nervous and not dressed like they usually dressed when they went out partying. Jug said his biggest regret was not opening the trunk, that he believed that Natalee may have been in there at that early time.

The Kalpoes were also observed by a neighbor washing their car during the middle of the night after Natalie disappeared.

 

[i.b.nora]

Could Feds Have Arrested Van Der Sloot for Extortion Before Peru Murder?
Dutch Suspect Investigated for Extortion for Weeks Prior to Peru Murder
By RUSSELL GOLDMAN and JOHN QUINONES
LIMA, Peru June 4, 2010

"Weeks after the FBI monitored the payment of $15,000 to Joran van der Sloot by an alleged extortion victim, the Dutch playboy took a seat at a poker table in a Peruvian casino where he would meet the woman whose battered body would later be found in his blood smeared hotel room."

This is going to be on 20/20 tonight. Article is about the extortion and also has a few new items of information about the crime in Peru:

"New details have emerged about the night that Flores died.

Van der Sloot and Flores, who was an avid gambler, were playing poker in a Lima casino late Saturday night and Flores was winning big, police said.

Investigators said van der Sloot invited Flores to his room at the Miraflores Hotel Tac to celebrate her winnings. A hotel employee later told police that she heard the couple arguing. Hours later, Flores was dead.

ABC News has learned that her body was not discovered for another four days because van der Sloot had prepaid his room for 14 days and instructed the hotel's front desk not to allow anyone into his room, including the cleaning staff."

 

[Cher352]

Thats what Stephany's brother said, "they thought she was kidnapped. It happens alot there. "

I heard that quote too but I was looking at the US State Dept website on travel in Peru and appears that there is lot of crime in the major cities but I didn't see anything about kidnapping

This is an interesting read on crime in Peru. Sure would make me think twice about going there.

About half way down the page under CRIME

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_998.html

 

[darnudes]

Peru is one of the top 10 countries for kidnappings each year--estimated to be between 100-200 a year. About 1 in 10 are reported to the public. I have very wealthy friends living in Peru and when a mutual friend just went to visit for 2 weeks they hired a body guard to escort her everywhere because of the kidnapping threat. I declined the trip due to this reason.

Well I can only speak for my experience in living there myself. I traveled round the whole country sans body guard and never encountered any trouble, I did meet people who had been robbed and you certainly have to watch yourself as you do in most countries with much poverty and high crime rates. I also know people who have been robbed in lots of western countries.

I won't argue anything further except to say no one should judge the situation in Peru without knowing all the facts.

 

[3doglady]

Hi, Beach2yall. With all due respect to Mr. Twitty, his opinions on this case have been colored by some very strong and understandable emotions. Phone records and triangulations, several interrogations, and known movements don't indicate any Kalpoe involvement except their fragile, short-lived lie. (The taped police car conversations and Joran's own subsequent hostile statements hardly indicate that he feared any possible incriminating statements from them.) If they had been involved, they would have been nothing short of insane to expose themselves to hostile deposition questioning by Dr. Phil McGraw's million-dollar lawyers after they sued him. (We have the O.J. Simpson civil trial to substantiate that.)

The Kalpoes have fought deposition by McGraw's attorneys for three years. They continue to come up with excuses to avoid it.

 

[KR2tonenow]

Curious here, Being that Stephany (was an out lesbian), what could have possibly been her reason to willingly go into JVDS hotel room?? Drugged therefore JVDS said, "Hey let's just get some rest...you're in no shape to drive...". Wouldn't that be enough for premeditation?

 

[Cher352]

Express kidnappings," in which criminals kidnap victims and seek to obtain funds from their bank accounts via automatic teller machines, occur frequently.

Peru
Country Specific Information
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_998.html

While I was out searching looks like you posted the same link on the previous page I just now posted, guess I am just a little slow....:blushing: