Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #5

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Thanks for your help! :) I've tried to view it the way you said but it keeps skipping the video. It says loading and then it changes to another video. I guess I'll have to try it later today.

I was just able to view it again here...[ame="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/37550183#37550183"]msnbc.com Video Player[/ame]
Maybe your security is blocking it...???

(lol, I thought I was just posting the link...hope you can see it now!!!)
 
I keep thinking aout how different this could have all been if Joran had told what happened to Natalee in the beginning. He might have served a few years in an Aruban prison, where no doubt with his connections he would have been treated well. A lot of people have lost respect for his parents, the Dutch and Aruban officials who manipulated things in an attempt to help him. This wouldn't have happened if things had been done right from the beginning. I looked at some pictures of Joran then and some now, and his appearance has changed a lot. He looks more like a hardened criminal now. I wish his Mom would speak out and apologize for the family's misguided attempt to help him, which turned out to be very harmful to him. Decisions which were made at that time to cover up had long lasting consequences for a lot of people. He has been on a downhill slope for a long time, but this could have been prevented by being honest in the beginning.
 
la_cavalière;5258471 said:
Why was Garcia worried that Joran and Stephany had both been kidnapped? Because by then it was news that Stephany's family had reported her missing and possibly kidnapped. Garcia knew that Stephany & Joran were together that night and that Joran was now MIA, too.

I think it is hard for people in the U.S. to understand how people, including tourists, might react in a part of the world where it is more common for people to be kidnapped for financial ransom than it is here in the U.S. Today in the U.S., we are more likely to think of kidnapping as involving women and children for sexual purposes, or non-custodial parents taking children. The days of the Lindbergh baby and the J. Paul Getty heir seem far away, although I am certain that the very rich have serious security today for themselves and their children. As a woman and the daughter of a prominent man, Stephany could have been a target for either type of kidnapping; Garcia, however, adding two and two and getting five, made the connection to his acquaintance who failed to show up for two appointments. We should be glad that he called to ask that Joran's room be checked, if that is the case. Or it might be that Garcia knew more about Joran's past than we are aware of or that Joran had bragged of past exploits with women to Garcia. That would be entirely consistent with what we know about Joran from the tapes we have seen of his "confessions". In that case, Garcia might have added two and two and got exactly the right answer: Joran had killed again.

So long as LE can prove Garcia didn't enter that room (there would be video) it won't matter why he told them to check. If Joran got caught because someone was concerned about him, how ironic. If he was caught because of his bragging and narcissism about his exploits with women or because of his notoriety because of Natalee's disappearance, how apropos and just.
 
I keep thinking aout how different this could have all been if Joran had told what happened to Natalee in the beginning. He might have served a few years in an Aruban prison, where no doubt with his connections he would have been treated well. A lot of people have lost respect for his parents, the Dutch and Aruban officials who manipulated things in an attempt to help him. This wouldn't have happened if things had been done right from the beginning. I looked at some pictures of Joran then and some now, and his appearance has changed a lot. He looks more like a hardened criminal now. I wish his Mom would speak out and apologize for the family's misguided attempt to help him, which turned out to be very harmful to him. Decisions which were made at that time to cover up had long lasting consequences for a lot of people. He has been on a downhill slope for a long time, but this could have been prevented by being honest in the beginning.

And all that trouble probably contributed to his dad's heart attack and death in Feb.
 
I was beginning to think the same thing too!!! Also, another thought about JVS. He's too big to think dying his hair would be a disguise. Is it possible he shaved the head and used a type of bleach or peroxide (which could easily make it the orange color) to interfere with any possible DNA??? JMO

I'm thinking he "colored" his hair first, and wasn't "satisfied" with his results, so he shaved his head...I sure would of...:blushing:
 
I'm thinking he "colored" his hair first, and wasn't "satisfied" with his results, so he shaved his head...I sure would of...:blushing:

Oh my, me too!!! Guess he didn't buy enough - the side bottoms are still a little dark!!!
 
I think it is hard for people in the U.S. to understand how people, including tourists, might react in a part of the world where it is more common for people to be kidnapped for financial ransom than it is here in the U.S. Today in the U.S., we are more likely to think of kidnapping as involving women and children for sexual purposes, or non-custodial parents taking children. The days of the Lindbergh baby and the J. Paul Getty heir seem far away, although I am certain that the very rich have serious security today for themselves and their children. As a woman and the daughter of a prominent man, Stephany could have been a target for either type of kidnapping; Garcia, however, adding two and two and getting five, made the connection to his acquaintance who failed to show up for two appointments. We should be glad that he called to ask that Joran's room be checked, if that is the case. Or it might be that Garcia knew more about Joran's past than we are aware of or that Joran had bragged of past exploits with women to Garcia. That would be entirely consistent with what we know about Joran from the tapes we have seen of his "confessions". In that case, Garcia might have added two and two and got exactly the right answer: Joran had killed again.

So long as LE can prove Garcia didn't enter that room (there would be video) it won't matter why he told them to check. If Joran got caught because someone was concerned about him, how ironic. If he was caught because of his bragging and narcissism about his exploits with women or because of his notoriety because of Natalee's disappearance, how apropos and just.

But would Garcia be in trouble IF he knew JVDS have any type of bad intentions towards Stephany even was just robbery or something else?
 
Why would the hotel have his passport?

I have been to Spain 3 times & each time the hotel held my passport. I was told that they have to report it to the police to check on your criminal history. Don't know if this is true; all I know is that they held my passport.
 
Oh my, me too!!! Guess he didn't buy enough - the side bottoms are still a little dark!!!

He would have been better off dying it jet black and putting on some instant tan lotion....he would have fit in better than running around with neon orange hair.
 
Respectfully snipped for space:
Article 1:
Overtuigend bewijs tegen Joran.

Source

Article 2:
Pokeraar tipte politie

Poker player tipped off police

The body of Stephany Flores was found after a 'mysterious' foreign poker player asked to send someone to Jorans room, police interrogation reports show.

The 35 year old male has been interrogated a couple of times last days. He stayed at the same hotel as Joran did. He met him earlier and had Jorans Peruvian phonenumber saved in his cellphone.

According to his papers he is Albanian and naturalized Uruguayan. Two weeks before Joran entered Peru they had contact on multiple occassions.

The man, 'Elton Garcia' can temporary not leave Peru. He said to police that he is a professional poker player who played with Joran and Stephany at a 'free table'.

The evening before Stephany was found he would have had dinner with Joran but Joran didn't show up. On Tuesday night, 2 days after the murder, they had an appointment at 9.00 pm. "He didn't show up and I started to worry. I thought they where kidnapped together."

The 'mysterious' poker player tells investigators that he heard that Stephany was missing on Tuesday. He says he feared that Joran and Stephany where kidnapped together.

In the night between Tuesday and Wednesday, this man asked the head of the Atlantic City casino to call to the hotel room of Joran. After this phonecall the body of Stephany Flores was found.

In the interrogations, the police didn't ask throughly why Garcia led people to the crime scene. Garcia says he barely knew Joran and has never been to his hotelroom. "I'm absolutely not a friend of him. We just played poker together in the Atlantic City casino."

Hmmm, I find this article, if accurate, very very interesting, and it also makes me a little bit nervous.

He says he was absolutely not a friend of Joran, just someone he met there. Then he goes on to say he was worried that they were both kidnapped and asks the Casino owner to call Joran's room? WTH. Who does that for someone you just met, and what on earth made him assume they were both kidnapped. I didn't want to have any doubts about JVDS and this situation but there's something about this story that just doesn't make sense.[/quote]

la_cavalière;5258639 said:
Again: Garcia gambled with Joran and Stephany that night and was friendly enough with Joran that he invited him to dinner later in the week. Stephany's family reports her missing and strongly suspects that she's been kidnapped. Upon learning this, and not being able to get in contact with Joran, Garcia fears that Joran has been kidnapped along with Stephany.

BBM... this is a bit of a sticking point with me. Maybe they knew each other from previous poker tournaments and were just trying to hook up with each. But I'd sure like to know more about their relationship prior to their meet up in Peru.
 
Why would the hotel have his passport?

It's a very common requirement overseas, typically of foreign hotel/hostel guests. If you don't have to leave the actual passport, you nearly always have to leave a photocopy of it (most people don't even realize that's what they do when they take it).

If you look at my posts over the weekend I explained more, and why - but it's largely, along with guests nearly always needing to get their key from the front desk each time - a preventative measure against someone skipping out on paying, leaving things in disrepair, and/or being there when they shouldn't be (illegally) - it gives the establishment some recourse. Basically your items in the room and/or your passport are typically more or less "held hostage" in exchange for payment, etc.

Most countries, including in S. America, are much more cash based societies - so when many places wouldn't have a copy of your credit card (and don't even use checks) it gives them a way of dealing with issues as a hotel as most think of it here in the US would do, simply dealing with it with your credit card company and/or having your CC# as "collateral" during your stay.

ETA: The fact that we had copies online of Joran's passport and all the stamps, exit/entry cards, and visas used makes me think that he may well not have had his passport in his possession.

It would be rare for a hotel or somewhere to copy ALL the pages of a passport, typically it's just the first page with all your information on it, and maybe the one indicating legal entry into the country and if you needed an entry card or visa. Even though it's advised WE (traveling abroad) keep copies of our passports both with us and at home if it were to ever go missing, I don't know anyone who copies more than the main page and any related visas acquired before that particular trip - so it's odd that the entire passport was copied and appeared online that quickly. And it seems unlikely to me that LE would have done that in Chile and it have been uploaded to that website so quickly. He really wasn't there long and frankly they were trying to get him out of the country....and I believe we had copies early on him being in transit back to Peru.
 
Hmmm, I find this article, if accurate, very very interesting, and it also makes me a little bit nervous.

He says he was absolutely not a friend of Joran, just someone he met there. Then he goes on to say he was worried that they were both kidnapped and asks the Casino owner to call Joran's room? WTH. Who does that for someone you just met, and what on earth made him assume they were both kidnapped. I didn't want to have any doubts about JVDS and this situation but there's something about this story that just doesn't make sense.



BBM... this is a bit of a sticking point with me. Maybe they knew each other from previous poker tournaments and were just trying to hook up with each. But I'd sure like to know more about their relationship prior to their meet up in Peru.[/QUOTE]

...I agree, this guy stated that he had Joran's phone #...why would he ask the casino owner to call him...makes absolutely no sense other than to alert/inform others that there was a problem! Could they have planned a kidnapping of Stephanie, something went terribly wrong and Joran high-tailed it leaving this guy in his dust????
 
I could have sworn the early reports said the hotel had a COPY of his passport-not the original, but with the mixed up reporting, who knows.
 
I keep thinking aout how different this could have all been if Joran had told what happened to Natalee in the beginning. He might have served a few years in an Aruban prison, where no doubt with his connections he would have been treated well. A lot of people have lost respect for his parents, the Dutch and Aruban officials who manipulated things in an attempt to help him. This wouldn't have happened if things had been done right from the beginning. I looked at some pictures of Joran then and some now, and his appearance has changed a lot. He looks more like a hardened criminal now. I wish his Mom would speak out and apologize for the family's misguided attempt to help him, which turned out to be very harmful to him. Decisions which were made at that time to cover up had long lasting consequences for a lot of people. He has been on a downhill slope for a long time, but this could have been prevented by being honest in the beginning.

What a smart observation you make. It's also possible that in Aruba, there might have been access to counseling. How effective that could have been is hard to say; certainly many people on WS had concluded years ago that he demonstrated characteristics associated with psychopaths. It is also worth noting that there were likely other opportunities to intervene in Joran's developing criminality--including getting help for his addictions, which are troubling in their own right in someone so young as Joran was when he killed Natalee but now look to be the signs of a psychopath seeking stimulation.

Jonathan Kellerman, the crime thriller novelist and child psychologist, wrote a little book about child psychopaths called Savage Spawn, in which he explores the question of what causes children to kill. Kellerman concludes that it's both nature (genetic and biological predisposition) and nurture (how the child was raised). Joran wasn't a child when he killed Natalee, but he was very young for someone hanging out in casinos and (so many of us believe) using GHB or some other date-rape drug to force sex from young woman he had just met. Perhaps his parents had tried to address these signs when he was younger, but by the time Natalee died, Joran was already a dangerous person and his parents were full-out enabling him. Natalee's death was their last opportunity to help their son, and had either his parents or Aruban authorities done the right thing, Stephany would still be alive.
 
He says he was absolutely not a friend of Joran, just someone he met there. Then he goes on to say he was worried that they were both kidnapped and asks the Casino owner to call Joran's room? WTH. Who does that for someone you just met, and what on earth made him assume they were both kidnapped. I didn't want to have any doubts about JVDS and this situation but there's something about this story that just doesn't make sense.


I think we are reading too much into this guy.

Joran stood this guy up twice.

This guy finds out girl seen with Joran MAY HAVE been kidnapped.

Guy thinks Joran was kidnapped with her.

Asks management to please check his room

The guy did what any one of us websleuths would have done.;)
 
Everytime I click on this it takes me to news at about the jihad. Anyone have trouble viewing this?

Today Show - 6/7/10
Try this one: [ame="http://video.yahoo.com/watch/7613598/20205249"]Joran van der Sloot: 6/7/10 on Yahoo! Video[/ame]
 
Kind of makes me wonder if Garcia was in on an extortion/kidnapping scheme with VDS.. I'm still thinking that some phone call was made to SF father about a kidnapping after VDS began his escape... He just didn't expect the camera's to be in a "low class" hostel.. Maybe it was supposed to look as though he was also missing/kidnapped... Thats why he wasn't bothered about getting his passport.. He wanted it to look as though he was kidnapped...especially after the U.S. extortion attempt...He would do this and get "lost" as they say in SA... Just a thought...
 
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