Police say parents are not answering vital questions #2

[cityslick]

frustration, rage, anger, depression, exhaustion and plain old tired of taking care of a baby.

We have any evidence of that? We have people that said she was any of those things prior to Oct 3?

 

[Donjeta]

Was it ever determined which lights to what rooms were on?

According to People magazine, the light in Lisa's room was on.


But when he peeked in on then 10-month-old daughter Lisa, her light was on and the crib was empty.
http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20537999,00.html

According to a Megyn Kelly interview:

1) Light in the living room

2) 2 lights in the kitchen

3) "accent lights" in the computer room

4) a "pumpkin light" also in the computer room.
[ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7258516#post7258516"]LE serves search warrant on family home #4 - Page 14 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[Donjeta]

I think the lights being on when JI came home blow up the theory that she was abducted prior to 10:30pm, unless you want to stretch your mind to say she went to sleep without turning out any lights.

It's not really that much of a stretch if she was as drunk as speculated.

The only thing is, didn't the neighbors say they didn't see lights on?

 

[cityslick]

It's not really that much of a stretch if she was as drunk as speculated.

The only thing is, didn't the neighbors say they didn't see lights on?

I think your right although I can't place who. It may have been SB when she went in her house at 11:30. If that's the truth then yea, I don't see how a pre-10:30pm event happened.

 

[natsound]

frustration, rage, anger, depression, exhaustion and plain old sick of taking care of a baby.

Or, it was an accident, and she didn't call 911 after the accident because her blood alcohol level was high enough that she would have been locked up for negligence.

 

[GoodGurl]

How is it possible she would know BL was missing prior to 10:30pm? The boys in that house would've gave up that little tidbit in the interviews they've had with LE.

Only if she herself (with or without help) disappeared her. And we don't know their routine, possibly the boys were used to leaving Lisa alone in her room. If mom said don't go in there, you don't go in there.

 

[yllek]

These back entrances have been on my radar from the beginning. But it still may not change any timeline. If somebody got in, they could have gotten in at anytime either during the time the ladies were out front and waited until all was quiet or even came in after all was quiet. Somebody could have even been waiting behind the detached garage unnoticed for the correct opportunity. It's DARK back there if no back yard lights are on and even then there are many shadowed areas.

I agree. If Debbi didn't remove Lisa from the house and is uninvolved, there are more possibilities than the front door and the computer room window. That's why, if it's true, I am glad that last sighting time was changed to the more accurate 6:40 p.m. If Lisa was sick and had been sleeping a lot, I can see the other children being strongly told not to disturb her (and we know Debbi said the doors were kept shut when family was asleep). The door in the boys' room may have been shut too, to stop from waking the baby. Reasonable possibilities, imo. So, I don't think we should limit ourselves from considering that something could have happened while the ladies were socializing out front.

I have doubts about Debbi's credibility for many reasons, but none of us know what happened to Lisa, why it happened, when it happened, and who did it. If you trust Debbi's credibility, it could have happened as early as around 6:40 p.m. on Oct 3rd. If you don't trust Debbi or Jeremy's credibility, it could have happened anytime since the birthday party on Oct 2nd (unless/until we hear a direct statement that someone else saw Lisa alive and well on the 3rd). This isn't meant to label the parents "guilty" at this time, just noting that whether one believes that Debbi last saw Lisa alive at 6:40 p.m. or not, there is a big window and many possibilities if you consider everyone a potential suspect and no one cleared.

JMO...

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

Sorry, this is o/t, but for some reason I see that there are 38 pages of posts on this thread, but I can't read past page 36. When I hit the links for pages 37, 38, or "next," page 36 just refreshes. Can anyone offer some insight!?

 

[cityslick]

Sorry, this is o/t, but for some reason I see that there are 38 pages of posts on this thread, but I can't read past page 36. When I hit the links for pages 37, 38, or "next," page 36 just refreshes. Can anyone offer some insight!?

Forum issue, I think they know about it though.

 

[Whisperer]

I wonder why JI never even looked in Lisa's room. He checked the whole house when he came home. He checked the boys room but never peeked in at the baby. And DB does the same. She recalls talking to the boys but not checking on Lisa.

Is it to be assumed that JI entered the house through the back? Or does he always walk in the front door? I would think he would park near the garage in back. He would have no reason to go to the front.

If this is accurate, he searched the whole house before Lisa's room. He checked on the boys, then db. then they both allegedly walked to Lisa's room as they both used the term "WE".

Lisa seemed last on both of their lists that night.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...timeline-emerges-in-lisa-irwin-disappearance/

 

[In da Middle]

I agree. If Debbi didn't remove Lisa from the house and is uninvolved, there are more possibilities than the front door and the computer room window. That's why, if it's true, I am glad that last sighting time was changed to the more accurate 6:40 p.m. If Lisa was sick and had been sleeping a lot, I can see the other children being strongly told not to disturb her (and we know Debbi said the doors were kept shut when family was asleep). The door in the boys' room may have been shut too, to stop from waking the baby. Reasonable possibilities, imo. So, I don't think we should limit ourselves from considering that something could have happened while the ladies were socializing out front.

I have doubts about Debbi's credibility for many reasons, but none of us know what happened to Lisa, why it happened, when it happened, and who did it. If you trust Debbi's credibility, it could have happened as early as around 6:40 p.m. on Oct 3rd. If you don't trust Debbi or Jeremy's credibility, it could have happened anytime after the birthday party on Oct 2nd (unless/until we hear a direct statement that someone else saw Lisa alive and well on the 3rd). This isn't meant to label the parents "guilty" at this time, just noting that whether one believes that Debbi last saw Lisa alive at 6:40 p.m. or not, there is a big window and many possibilities if you consider everyone a potential suspect and no one cleared.

JMO...

This part I am personally going to have to say that if LE was not certain if the baby had or had not been seen that evening, we would have a public outcry from LE as for witnesses to come forward if they had seen her in that timeframe or not like we have in so many other cases when the last sighting other than family was an unknown. We have not in this case.

I am also going to say that SB must not be too worried about them having something to do with it as we have on film her daughter in their very presence and I have personally seen the boys and her daughter playing together in the last few days. If I had any inkling that my friend had anything to do with her baby being missing, my kid would not be in her presence at all.

But I totally agree with what you stated.

 

[Whisperer]

Or, it was an accident, and she didn't call 911 after the accident because her blood alcohol level was high enough that she would have been locked up for negligence.

How often does that happen? A parent not calling 911 when their child has an accident? If they don't, then it's negligent homicide.

People tend to lean towards accident in almost every case I've watched. They just can't fathom any other reason for a parent to harm a child.

 

[cityslick]

I wonder why JI never even looked in Lisa's room. He checked the whole house when he came home. He checked the boys room but never peeked in at the baby. And DB does the same. She recalls talking to the boys but not checking on Lisa.

Is it to be assumed that JI entered the house through the back? Or does he always walk in the front door? I would think he would park near the garage in back. He would have no reason to go to the front.

If this is accurate, he searched the whole house before Lisa's room. He checked on the boys, then db. then they both allegedly walked to Lisa's room as they both used the term "WE".

Lisa seemed last on both of their lists that night.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...timeline-emerges-in-lisa-irwin-disappearance/

Didn't she talk to the boys because the boys came in her room? The story says he noticed the front door unlocked, I think the natural assumption is he walked through the front door without unlocking it.

 

[In da Middle]

I wonder why JI never even looked in Lisa's room. He checked the whole house when he came home. He checked the boys room but never peeked in at the baby. And DB does the same. She recalls talking to the boys but not checking on Lisa.

Is it to be assumed that JI entered the house through the back? Or does he always walk in the front door? I would think he would park near the garage in back. He would have no reason to go to the front.

If this is accurate, he searched the whole house before Lisa's room. He checked on the boys, then db. then they both allegedly walked to Lisa's room as they both used the term "WE".

Lisa seemed last on both of their lists that night.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...timeline-emerges-in-lisa-irwin-disappearance/

The vehicles were usually parked at the "top" or front of the driveway which would make the front entrance the easier. Their vehicles were almost always parked on top.

 

[madge]

Originally Posted by cityslick
How is it possible she would know BL was missing prior to 10:30pm? The boys in that house would've gave up that little tidbit in the interviews they've had with LE

Maybe the children did reveal this tidbit in their first interviews and that is why the LE are so interested in chatting with the Irwin's in separate interviews. Perhaps this is why they won't be interviewed and resisted allowign the children until they were convinced the kids wouldn't reveal the times that they saw stuff or "heard" stuff.

If DI found BL dead at 6:40 then then she would continue to carry on and try to make an alibi for herself and then say that she doesn't remember if she saw her at 10:30 pm. Making an intruder timeline from 6:40 on.

I think it all fits, since she had to cover that huge chunk of time to say "hey, I blacked out I dont' remember checking on her BUT OH I do remember checking on my other two kids...who just happen to be old enough to tell LE, I saw mommie late and she asked us to go to bed with her.

Story just does not add up for me. Sorry

 

[Nixie]

Who steals a 10 month old baby-a sick twisted crazy person with many issues, same type that would kill a child. Someone who can't have a bay of their own but wants one. Someone who needs lots of money and has connections, my mom was adopted through a lawyer not a adoption agency it was quicker and easier for my grandparents and money wasn't an issue for them. They knew the birth mother and literally bought my mom from her.They have talked to people who have done the same thing but have never known the birth parents. I am not saying any of this happened I don't know what happened but children do get kidnapped and mothers do kill their children and accidents do happen. It isn't always a sexual predator that takes children. I will wish for the best until I cannot anymore. I will hope that there is a miracle and Lisa will come home alive. has far has I know the police are still looking at all leads including children who are alive. if the parents get found guilty of something or there is more evidence that points to them and the baby being gone I will be with everyone else hoping they get the harsh punishment they will deserve. Until them I will hope because there may be an explanation out there we aren't seeing and maybe this is the one in a million case where the parents are innocent.

 

[natsound]

How often does that happen? A parent not calling 911 when their child has an accident? If they don't, then it's negligent homicide.

People tend to lean towards accident in almost every case I've watched. They just can't fathom any other reason for a parent to harm a child.

That's not why I'm considering it. I'm really on the fence about it because no motive has been disclosed to us. Also, because she was drunk, that would give her reason to a) be sloppy and prone to an accident, and b) be scared to call authorities.

 

[In da Middle]

Originally Posted by cityslick
How is it possible she would know BL was missing prior to 10:30pm? The boys in that house would've gave up that little tidbit in the interviews they've had with LE

Maybe the children did reveal this tidbit in their first interviews and that is why the LE are so interested in chatting with the Irwin's in separate interviews. Perhaps this is why they won't be interviewed and resisted allowign the children until they were convinced the kids wouldn't reveal the times that they saw stuff or "heard" stuff.

If DI found BL dead at 6:40 then then she would continue to carry on and try to make an alibi for herself and then say that she doesn't remember if she saw her at 10:30 pm. Making an intruder timeline from 6:40 on.

I think it all fits, since she had to cover that huge chunk of time to say "hey, I blacked out I dont' remember checking on her BUT OH I do remember checking on my other two kids...who just happen to be old enough to tell LE, I saw mommie late and she asked us to go to bed with her.

Story just does not add up for me. Sorry

The first interviews with the boys were on the first day. The parents HAVE been interviewed at least two more times since then including individually.

 

[hambirg]

As to LE confirmation about DB's polygraph, I recall Megyn Kelly reported that LE confirmed to her that DB did fail...there are links to that around here somewhere and I'm too lazy to look. fwiw and moo

You know, I remember that too.

I can't find a link now, but it was a statement made by someone other than Steve Young. It was a woman with LE I believe. But almost immediately following that Steve Young came out and said that LE is not confirming that, or never made that statement, or something along those lines. IIRC.

So we have 4 possible scenarios.

DB failed and LE told her she failed.
DB did not fail and LE told her she failed.
DB failed and LE did not tell her she did.
DB did not fail and LE did not tell her she did.

Personally, I find it hard to believe that DB would make up something like that. So, I think it's likely the first or second scenario is the truth.

All MOO

 

[Whisperer]

Didn't she talk to the boys because the boys came in her room? The story says he noticed the front door unlocked, I think the natural assumption is he walked through the front door without unlocking it.

I don't know where she was when she talked to the boys. I am sure the story has changed no matter what. I distinctly recall her saying she went into their room and asked them if they wanted to sleep with her.

As far as JI using the front door to enter, that would be an assumption. He could have parked out back, which is more likely...and then walked all around the house because the lights were on then checked the boys, then checked on db and woke her up wanting to know what was going on. He noticed a kitten. Where did this kitten come from? Maybe he hates cats, who knows?

She immediately Jumps out of the bed and they go into Lisa's room and find her missing. Neither thought of checking on her prior.

My problem is that neither parent looked in on Lisa. Her room was the last thing checked after every other thing was observed...with BOTH of them. This leads me down the road that she was not a priority in the story they each told. If one was to break down their statements, much is amiss.