Police say parents are not answering vital questions #2

[Donjeta]

Tacopina stated in an interview that Debbi and Samantha have a code. If one turns the lights out in her house, it's past the time for the other to come over for a visit. He said this when explaining that Debbi must have been crashed out by 11:30 p.m. and probably the abduction occured sometime after 11:30 p.m.

Let me search out the link...

That never made any sense to me. I don't know... I've never needed such a code. All the people I know have more sense than to drop in for a surprise visit at 11:30 pm even if I have some lights on. I do sometimes want to see something and have the lights on even if it's too late that I'd consider entertaining friends on a school night. I wouldn't like to sit in the dark just because I don't want anybody to come over and wake the kids up.

 

[Nixie]

Tacopina stated in an interview that Debbi and Samantha have a code. If one turns the lights out in her house, it's past the time for the other to come over for a visit. He said this when explaining that Debbi must have been crashed out by 11:30 p.m. and probably the abduction occured sometime after 11:30 p.m.

Let me search out the link...

Does anyone else think its weird they have a code to let people know they are asleep or that its not a good time to come over? i know it is not likely to have anything to do with the case but does the neighborhood know the "code"? It just seems odd to me even my best friend who is always welcome at my house would just know not to come over late at night unless it was important. We don't need codes seems childish or shady to me.

 

[Nixie]

That never made any sense to me. I don't know... I've never needed such a code. All the people I know have more sense than to drop in for a surprise visit at 11:30 pm even if I have some lights on. I do sometimes want to see something and have the lights on even if it's too late that I'd consider entertaining friends on a school night. I wouldn't like to sit in the dark just because I don't want anybody to come over and wake the kids up.

you must have been typing the same time I was lol good post

 

[Donjeta]

Jinx Nixie, lol

Yeah... and if it's night time, the house is in the dark and all the lights are out, why would you need an explicit code to be spelled out to know that it's probably not a good time for a visit. It seems like something everybody could figure out instinctively.

 

[yllek]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I am updating the time line post upthread accordingly:

1. I have seen that Jeremy Irwin did a day job on Oct 3rd and was home at 2:30 p.m., but there is nothing about when he went to work that day and no statements or confirmations from any direct sources. So, I will add the "returned from day job" time to the time line as "reported".

2. I watched Debbi's lawyer talk about a code between she and Samantha regarding the lights; he was discussing her statement that she looked over and noticed the lights out at Debbi's at 11:30 because they had a code. I thought it really odd; like something at a sorority house and thought possibly Samantha had thought about going to talk to Debbi about her visit with Shane. But, I can't find the video or transcript, so I'm deleting the "code" reference

 

[Donjeta]

FWIW i saw that code reference too, I don't think you need to delete. It's probably somewhere in the old threads.

 

[askfornina]

FWIW i saw that code reference too, I don't think you need to delete. It's probably somewhere in the old threads.

i remember reading the code reference here, but i don't remember a lawyer ever saying it. i remember JT in an interview addressing the neighbor seeing the lights off..i think it was an interview in front of the house on Lister, but i'm not 100% on that. i looked through all of my links of lawyer statements and i can't find it. do you guys remember the attorney specifically using the word "code"? searching now.

 

[yllek]

It's a very good timeline report. I think there was one mistake, though. Wasn't the radius 1/5 to 1/3 mile and not 3 mile? Big difference.

Thank you Detective! Critical typo. Going up to correct original post.

 

[matou]

Yllek: wasn't there a text sent to S Brando from her husband at around 10:30 too, saying he loves her and to kiss their daughter goodnight? Weird and a bit hink to me as well. Is he hinting to his wife to check on their daughter to kiss her? My suspicious brain can come up with a bunch of other scenarios based on this part alone.

 

[matou]

FWIW i saw that code reference too, I don't think you need to delete. It's probably somewhere in the old threads.

Wasn't the code in reference to the garage and the teen who was questioned early in the case and DNA sample taken?

 

[yllek]

Yllek: wasn't there a text sent to S Brando from her husband at around 10:30 too, saying he loves her and to kiss their daughter goodnight? Weird and a bit hink to me as well. Is he hinting to his wife to check on their daughter to kiss her? My suspicious brain can come up with a bunch of other scenarios based on this part alone.

Thanks matou! Updated original post accordingly.

 

[Donjeta]

I found the source for the code comment, it was Bill Stanton talking about the code on JJ .

There is discussion in the October 22-23 Live msm thread.
.

I don't know if there is a transcript or a video of that show online.

Here's one post from that thread:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7269718&postcount=500"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - LIVE MSM COVERAGE on BABY LISA - 22-23 OCTOBER 2011[/ame]

 

[yllek]

I found the source for the code comment, it was Bill Stanton talking about the code on JJ .

There is discussion in the October 22-23 Live msm thread.
.

I don't know if there is a transcript or a video of that show online.

Here's one post from that thread:
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - LIVE MSM COVERAGE on BABY LISA - 22-23 OCTOBER 2011

Thanks Donjeta! I got my team members mixed up; Stanton not Tacopina. It's not really critical to the time line, so I took it out, but it is an interesting tidbit nonetheless.

All poster feedback incorporated into original time line post #1078 upthread. Thanks all!!

 

[Oriah]

So you're saying they guy who wrote a book on cadaver dogs is inaccurate?

Inaccurate on the issue of human waste producing false positives, yes.

The FBI endorses the authors of that publication as well- I just don't agree.

 

[Oriah]

Just a quick Google search shows me that Dr. David is considered an "expert" in his field. His book is recommended by UC Davis, and is apparently sold directly through the NASAR bookstore http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/ccab/rescue.html

No time to look further, but he seems to be someone knowledgeable in his field.

JMO

Dr. David's field of expertise is not canine scent discrimination, K9 handling, or K9 training, as far as I understand. That publication is a mutidisciplinary approach, utilizing the imput from several other sources including K9 handlers and crime scene investigators- as well as prosecuters and defense attorneys.

I commend the multidisciplinary approach- however, imvho, it fails to recognize several extremely pertinent issues of standardizing scent discrimination alerts in a properly trained and utilized HRD dog.

 

[crimecurious]

Thanks Donjeta! I got my team members mixed up; Stanton not Tacopina. It's not really critical to the time line, so I took it out, but it is an interesting tidbit nonetheless.

All poster feedback incorporated into original time line post #1078 upthread. Thanks all!!

Thanks again yllek for the timeline. It really helped to see all the info in one place!

 

[deoneta]

On the KCTV timeline (from sources, whoever they may be) http://www.kctv5.com/story/15940122/source-says-4-hour-window-for-abduction , JI doesn't remember if the door to Lisa's room was closed or not. I know I heard this also in one of the interviews because I remember thinking "oh no, it's catching". He definitely says Lisa's door was open in the earliest interviews. I don't have the links to those interviews so I will say IIRC, all MOO, but if I find them, I will post.

 

[Donjeta]

DB: “Him coming in the bedroom, um, I didn’t know what time it was until he, he later on had said it, because we didn’t, I didn’t check, but he came in and he said, um, you know, why are all the lights on, um, you know, why is the, uh, the screen popped out of the window? Part of the corner of it was popped out, or something and, um, and I s, um, I, I got up, ‘I don’t, I don’t know what you’re talking about,’ um, and, um, my son was sleeping with me, and, um, you know, sometimes I, I like to, right, my kids have always, when they’re younger, little, slept in bed with me. So, I like to do that when I can. And, um, he asked why, why Michael was there, and I just, you know, he’s just sleeping next to me, and, um, I guess, with everything he was saying out loud to me, you know, he thought, you know, wait a minute, Lisa’s bedroom door’s open, and we always, we always close it when she goes to sleep at night and he run back and checked and said, he came in the room and he said, ‘Where’s Lisa, where’s she at?’ and I said, ‘She, she’s in her crib. What do you?’ You know, and he’s said, ‘She’s not there,’ and we just got up and started screaming for her and looking everywhere and she wasn’t there.”

October 9, 2011 – Parents Interview with Judge Pirro.
http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/justi...ssing-baby-lisa-speak-out/?playlist_id=163706

 

[yllek]

In looking at the updated time line in post 1078, I think there are several possibilities as to what exactly LE is most specifically looking to glean from further questioning the parents about gaps, inconsistencies and comings and goings.

It strikes me that it really depends on how credible LE finds the known witnesses.

- If LE thinks that Jeremy Irwin is credible, then we know Lisa was sick but otherwise fine at 5:20 p.m. on Oct 3rd when he left for job 2.

- If LE thinks that Samantha Brando is credible, then we can surmise that nothing knowingly (to she or Debbi) happened to Lisa between 7:00 p.m. and 10:30 p.m. on Oct 3rd.

-If LE thinks that Shane Beagley is credible, then we know that the ladies were not drinking between 7:30 p.m. and 9:00 p.m. (which seems odd to me given Debbi's claim of heavy intoxication, unless she had been drinking during the day or chugged like mad between 9:00 and 10:30, or drank more in the house once she retired from the stoop).

Does LE suspect that something could have happened between 6:30 p.m. and 7:00 p.m. when Samantha was on the liquor run? Is that one of the gaps? No one other than Debbi is said to have seen Lisa after Jeremy left for work at 5:20 p.m. (except an unsourced report that Samantha's 4 year old saw her while Samantha was away on the liquor run).

Does LE suspect that something must have happened to Lisa between 10:30 p.m. and 3:45 a.m.? Do they think/know that others were present at the house with Debbi or that Debbi left the house for some period?

I am curious to know whether LE finds Samantha Brando credible and if she has fully cooperated. If so, did she direct them to Shane? Did she indicate other people stopping by that night whereas Debbi has not? Did Shane indicate other people stopping by that night? Are the inconsistencies between Jeremy's and Debbi's statements limited to the time after he returned from work, sometime before he went to work, or were they more in regards to general issues like drinking habits, relationship with neighbors, etc...

Also very curious about what, if anything, LE has learned from Jersey, if he was polygraphed, and how credible LE finds him to be.

Still more questions than answers...

 

[Donjeta]

We have been speculating if SB saw Lisa after 4:30 but in deoneta's link it is said that she didn't.


Brando says she last saw the baby at 4:30 p.m. Brando says she stayed outside talking to another neighbor until 11:30 p.m. and noticed nothing amiss so that the abductor could not have taken baby Lisa before then. Brando told police that the lights were out in baby Lisa's house when she went inside and to bed around 11:30 p.m.

Her credibility suffers a little in my eyes if she really didn't see Lisa after 4:30 but still she's sure that Lisa was there at 11:30. How could she be sure that there was nothing amiss at the neighboring house she just sees the windows of? Her attention wasn't completely directed on that house since she was talking and not guarding the Bradley/Irwin home.
How does she know that an abductor didn't enter through the back? Surely she must be aware of other entrances to the home.