Police say parents are not answering vital questions #3

[Jacie Estes]

Thanks for the link. So Debbie said that LE told her she showed deception on a question about where Lisa is. Now the question should be did LE lie to her about this or tell the truth? And if LE didn't deceive Debbie, can we say that the results of the LDT are 100% reliable?

BBM

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7553155&postcount=820"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Police say parents are not answering vital questions #3[/ame]

 

[Jacie Estes]

http://foxnewsinsider.com/2011/10/1...e-asks-if-they-sold-or-killed-their-daughter/

This link has Part 1 and 2 of the interviews Megyn Kelly of Fox had with DB and JI along with a couple of videos where Megyn is discussing the interview with Judge Jeannine and another man (NYPD I think). This is where Deborah Bradley admits to being drunk, states that Lisa was laid down early at 6:40pm because she was fussy and discusses the LDT. According to Deborah Bradley she was told that the question that she showed deception on was "Do you know where your baby is?". She said no and according to LE, the answer was deceptive. All four videos are interesting.

Has LE made an official statement about the LDT? The LDT is an investigative tool but is not 100% accurate and is not empirical evidence. LE was playing head games, an allowable investigative tool. If I were in Deborah's shoes and knew I didn't harm my child and they were accusing me of doing so it would be 'this discussion is over'. Innocent people lawyer up, as well. Being charged doesn't mean guilt but then Deborah hasn't been charged, has she?

 

[annalia]

Has LE made an official statement about the LDT? The LDT is an investigative tool but is not 100% accurate and is not empirical evidence. LE was playing head games, an allowable investigative tool. If I were in Deborah's shoes and knew I didn't harm my child and they were accusing me of doing so it would be 'this discussion is over'. Innocent people lawyer up, as well. Being charged doesn't mean guilt but then Deborah hasn't been charged, has she?

my bolding

And you know this how?

I keep reading about needing to stick to facts only in all discussions, is it a fact that LE was only playing head games and DB really passed the LDT?

Also I keep reading that it's a fact that they're cooperating with the FBI, due to how badly Local LE treated them. Is there a link to the facts showing that they sat down for questioning by the FBI, answered all of those vital questions, and that the FBI was satisfied with all of their answers?

 

[askfornina]

http://www.kmbc.com/r/29448684/detail.html

October 11th

Allen Jennerich, who worked for the FBI for 25 years, said Bradley should not have been given a polygraph because of how emotional the situation is, the repeated police interviews and her lack of sleep.

 

[cityslick]

my bolding

And you know this how?

I keep reading about needing to stick to facts only in all discussions, is it a fact that LE was only playing head games and DB really passed the LDT?

Also I keep reading that it's a fact that they're cooperating with the FBI, due to how badly Local LE treated them. Is there a link to the facts showing that they sat down for questioning by the FBI, answered all of those vital questions, and that the FBI was satisfied with all of their answers?

Picerno and Ashley Irwin say they are talking to the FBI but I don't how if you want to regard those two sources as 'facts'. The only 'results' of the LDT have come from DB herself, so how 'factual' do you regard that? If she would of said she 'passed it', would that make her answer of the LDT less factual?

LE has not released hardly any info themselves so one must decide what is fact and what isn't from everyone else.

 

[vlpate]

This isn't a comment by me about whether the parents are guilty or not.

To be fair, unless you have seen the entire raw footage of this interview, you can't say that she never held up the flyers. She could have spent the first 20 minutes holding up those flyers and talking about Lisa, for all we know.

In any interview, in any case, you can't judge someone by what the media decides makes it to air.

She never holds up the fliers in any of the interviews. The editors must cut that part out - must not be important.

 

[cityslick]

She never holds up the fliers in any of the interviews. The editors must cut that part out - must not be important.

Hasn't she only done like 2 interviews? I'd like to know her behavior beyond the cameras, how does she seem to people in the neighborhood, especially in the early going. Was she seriously distraught?

 

[askfornina]

Hasn't she only done like 2 interviews? I'd like to know her behavior beyond the cameras, how does she seem to people in the neighborhood, especially in the early going. Was she seriously distraught?

Hi cityslick, actually, it's 8 interviews if I am counting correctly. Plus the interview with People Magazine. This should be all of them.

October 5th
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GgWrHZgmuU&feature=related"]Lisa Irwin's parents appeal for safe return of daughter - YouTube[/ame]

October 6th
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0Lmy0Q5U_k&feature=player_embedded"]Baby Lisa's Parents Take Questions From Reporters - YouTube[/ame]

October 7th
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/inside-baby-lisas-home-14693905
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/44813...baby-i-reached-my-boiling-point/#.Treqs3JIuOe

October 9th Judge Jeanine, one interview all cut up:
http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/justi...ssing-baby-lisa-speak-out/?playlist_id=163706
http://video.foxnews.com/v/1213192088001
http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/ne...al-new-details-about-night-baby-went-missing-

Oct 17th MK, Today, GMA
http://foxnewsinsider.com/2011/10/1...e-asks-if-they-sold-or-killed-their-daughter/
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/44927...m-i-was-drunk-when-she-vanished/#.TrZQInJIuOd
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/missing-baby-lisas-parents-microscope-14752251

People article:
http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20538450,00.html

 

[vlpate]

http://www.kmbc.com/r/29448684/detail.html

October 11th

Everyone knows a polygraph can't be used in a court of law, that's not why they are given. LE uses a polygraph as an interrogation tool. They use it to get answers and to put pressure on the subject to tell the truth.

We have no idea what was said during DB's interview - she may have offered to take the test, a lot of people do. "I'm telling you the truth, I didn't do this, give me a polygraph test!" Many times it is a defensive statement, the person being interrogated thinking this will make them go, "oh heck, she's willing to take a polygraph, she must be telling the truth!".

IIRC, Jeremy 'offered' to take a polygraph but they told him it was not necessary, he was "cleared".

 

[annalia]

Picerno and Ashley Irwin say they are talking to the FBI but I don't how if you want to regard those two sources as 'facts'. The only 'results' of the LDT have come from DB herself, so how 'factual' do you regard that? If she would of said she 'passed it', would that make her answer of the LDT less factual?

LE has not released hardly any info themselves so one must decide what is fact and what isn't from everyone else.

Picerno also said that DB was pretty much told by LE that she was a suspect so you tell me if what he says should be considered fact.

I don't understand the bolded, why you turned it around on me or what it has to do with anything, as that wasn't what I asked. It was stated that LE was just playing head games with DB over the poly, is that a fact or not? Re the last bolded sentence, she didn't say she passed it so it's kind of a moot point if we're sticking to facts.

You're right, LE hasn't confirmed or denied much, so why use the fact that they didn't come out give an official stmt on the poly as some sort of proof that she didn't really fail it?

JMHO

 

[melissasmom]

Picerno also said that DB was pretty much told by LE that she was a suspect so you tell me if what he says should be considered fact.

I don't understand the bolded, why you turned it around on me or what it has to do with anything, as that wasn't what I asked. It was stated that LE was just playing head games with DB over the poly, is that a fact or not? Re the last bolded sentence, she didn't say she passed it so it's kind of a moot point if we're sticking to facts.

You're right, LE hasn't confirmed or denied much, so why use the fact that they didn't come out give an official stmt on the poly as some sort of proof that she didn't really fail it?

JMHO

Just kind of jumping off the part I bolded. I wonder WHY LE has not confirmed certain things in this case. Now obviously, there are going to be a lot of things they are not going to release as it may be detrimental to the investigation or a future prosecution. But why will they not confirm things such as how DB did on her polygraph. I don't see how saying yes she did pass or no she did not are going to affect anything. If they did lie to her that she failed, why not just say so-"Yes we lied, it is part of tactics we use when questioning people" Or conversely "We can confirm that DB did indeed fail the polygraph." Does anyone have any speculation on this, because frankly I have no idea.

 

[annalia]

Just kind of jumping off the part I bolded. I wonder WHY LE has not confirmed certain things in this case. Now obviously, there are going to be a lot of things they are not going to release as it may be detrimental to the investigation or a future prosecution. But why will they not confirm things such as how DB did on her polygraph. I don't see how saying yes she did pass or no she did not are going to affect anything. If they did lie to her that she failed, why not just say so-"Yes we lied, it is part of tactics we use when questioning people" Or conversely "We can confirm that DB did indeed fail the polygraph." Does anyone have any speculation on this, because frankly I have no idea.

Maybe they're just trying to solve the case of a missing baby and don't care to play it out in the media.

 

[RANCH]

Just kind of jumping off the part I bolded. I wonder WHY LE has not confirmed certain things in this case. Now obviously, there are going to be a lot of things they are not going to release as it may be detrimental to the investigation or a future prosecution. But why will they not confirm things such as how DB did on her polygraph. I don't see how saying yes she did pass or no she did not are going to affect anything. If they did lie to her that she failed, why not just say so-"Yes we lied, it is part of tactics we use when questioning people" Or conversely "We can confirm that DB did indeed fail the polygraph." Does anyone have any speculation on this, because frankly I have no idea.

BBM
Thanks for your post. You make some great points. I want to comment on the sentence that I bolded. In my opinion it doesn't matter much if LE comes out in public with the results of the polygraph. It's a tool that sometimes helps LE focus their investigative in a certain direction. You can't take the results to trial and say "this person failed so their guilty" or "this person passed so their innocent".

LE hasn't arrested anyone yet, so I don't know how much help they got out of Debbie's polygraph. MOO.

 

[melissasmom]

Maybe they're just trying to solve the case of a missing baby and don't care to play it out in the media.

But there are certain aspects that they DO take to the media. LE were the ones who called the press conference to say that the parents were no longer cooperating.

 

[Jacie Estes]

my bolding

And you know this how?

I keep reading about needing to stick to facts only in all discussions, is it a fact that LE was only playing head games and DB really passed the LDT?

Also I keep reading that it's a fact that they're cooperating with the FBI, due to how badly Local LE treated them. Is there a link to the facts showing that they sat down for questioning by the FBI, answered all of those vital questions, and that the FBI was satisfied with all of their answers?

<modsnip>

It is an investigative tool to get in their head and play head games; get them to crack and give LE the info that LE thinks exists. Somne people even confess to crimes they didn't commit. Deborah did not crack.

 

[vlpate]

Has LE made an official statement about the LDT? The LDT is an investigative tool but is not 100% accurate and is not empirical evidence. LE was playing head games, an allowable investigative tool. If I were in Deborah's shoes and knew I didn't harm my child and they were accusing me of doing so it would be 'this discussion is over'. Innocent people lawyer up, as well. Being charged doesn't mean guilt but then Deborah hasn't been charged, has she?

I would "lawyer up" too, but I wouldn't stop answering questions. The lawyer being there would protect my rights, and LE would be careful how they proceeded in their questioning....but NO WAY would I sit around for three months, if I were innocent, allowing a lawyer to tell me not to talk to LE.

Who does that? Not someone trying to find their helpless 10 month old baby. Defending their silence evidently goes outside the range of my simple comprehension skills.

 

[annalia]

LOL

It is an investigative tool to get in their head and play head games; get them to crack and give LE the info that LE thinks exists. Somne people even confess to crimes they didn't commit. Deborah did not crack.

<modsnip>
Ok so you're saying it's a fact that LE was just playing head games and DB never failed the poly, DB never cracked and she didn't lie.

<modsnip>

 

[iamnotagolem]

Let's just say for a minute that we get 100% confirmation and evidence from LE stating that DB & JI are not involved in any way, shape or form.

Why was Lisa in bed from 4pm-4am? Was this normal behavior? Did their families know this? Was anyone in the family uncomfortable with their "parenting"? Who all knew that JI was working his first night shift that night? PN? AI? DN? SB? JB? Surely they knew, anyone else? Did anyone on their list, of 9 (or was it 12) people they thought might have taken Lisa, know he'd be working? How many people were aware of DB's drinking?

I think that if Lisa was abducted, then it's pretty likely it was someone close to them, a family member who wasn't happy with the drinking, the leaving Lisa in bed for 12+ hours at a time, maybe a family member who wants kids but only has a history of failed marriages?

 

[vlpate]

"People that cheated on their husband"....and the way he said it, as if it was a slip. That was bizarre. DB is married and has a child her husband doesn't know about. Could this be what he was referring to?

1:44 (approximately)
http://video.foxnews.com/v/1213192088001

 

[cityslick]

Picerno also said that DB was pretty much told by LE that she was a suspect so you tell me if what he says should be considered fact.

I don't understand the bolded, why you turned it around on me or what it has to do with anything, as that wasn't what I asked. It was stated that LE was just playing head games with DB over the poly, is that a fact or not? Re the last bolded sentence, she didn't say she passed it so it's kind of a moot point if we're sticking to facts.

You're right, LE hasn't confirmed or denied much, so why use the fact that they didn't come out give an official stmt on the poly as some sort of proof that she didn't really fail it?

JMHO

I believe my point is that actual fact that DB failed the polygraph is nothing of the sort, because the only source of the results is DB herself and it is common knowledge that LE doesn't always tell you the exact results if they are trying to get information from you. LE is under no obligation to tell you the truth about the results of the polygraph. That's why I asked if you would assume she passed the test if she had said as much? LE is under no obligation to tell the public anything about a LDT result, in fact they usually do not.

Similar example, Justin Dipietro (Ayla Reynolds case) told the media that he 'smoked' his LDT. Do you believe LE actually told him this? Without confirmation or denial from LE, there is no way to know the actual result of the LDT tests.