Poll: Date of body disposal?

[Lexington]

I can't get past the fact that he does not remember any smells the day of the gas can.

I don't think that that statement by GA is true. I think that he smelled or saw something in the trunk on the 24th, KC took off in the car, GA chased her and lost her. That is when KC dumped the body in a panic.

 

[kathyn2]

I agree with this. And the reason she didn't want dad near the trunk was because it smelled so bad from the 2 1/2 days of decomp that took place there and fluids leaking into places KC couldn't see or get rid of the smell from. Arm and Hammer used to try and clean trunk but she couldn't get it all and it still smelled bad.

This is my understanding of the results as well. I think she died on 15th in Casey's room and was dumped on the 18th, the day of the shovel borrowing.

 

[Chilly Willy]

I don't think that that statement by GA is true. I think that he smelled or saw something in the trunk on the 24th, KC took off in the car, GA chased her and lost her. That is when KC dumped the body in a panic.

Are you saying George lost her 15 houses away?

 

[Chilly Willy]

I agree with this. And the reason she didn't want dad near the trunk was because it smelled so bad from the 2 1/2 days of decomp that took place there and fluids leaking into places KC couldn't see or get rid of the smell from. Arm and Hammer used to try and clean trunk but she couldn't get it all and it still smelled bad.

If detergent was used to clean the trunk it will show up in the forensic reports. There'd be no way to rinse away all the residue detergent would leave in the carpet.

 

[debs]

If detergent was used to clean the trunk it will show up in the forensic reports. There'd be no way to rinse away all the residue detergent would leave in the carpet.

Chilly, it was Arm and Hammer detergent. It's biodegradable! (sorry. laundry jokes inappropriate. bad deb)

 

[Kathy1964]

I remember reading somewhere in the inviewing that someone thought they seem her jogging. I search can not find might been in texts. Does anyone remember reading this?

I remember that. When she called AL because she ran out of gas in a nearby subdivision, he picked her up running on Chickasaw Trail. That was on June 23.
I also think someone else saw her jogging on Chickasaw at some point. It may have been Troy B? When he called and asked her if she had been running there, she said no.
I read somewhere that she did often jog, and I wonder if she ran on Chickasaw between her house and Lee's.

 

[Reannan]

Here is what I think (today, anyway):

June 15: Visitation at nursing home, argument with Cindy, murder of Caylee. I do not believe CA tucked them into bed that night.

June 16: KC moves in with TL - no Caylee in sight. (I believe the body was wrapped in the garbage bags it was eventually discovered in) and placed in a cooler in the back of the car with ice. This also happens to be the day KC is filmed renting movies with TL. :furious:

June 17: At this point, KC is starting to tell people her car has 'broken down' and she is seen driving TL's jeep (for three days - from June 17 - June 19th). She doesn't want to drive around town in the car with her garbage-bagged daughters body in a cooler in the trunk. This day is critical, however, because the neighbor (Brian B - who is home on vacation from 6/17 -6/21) sees KC back her car into the garage for the first time. IMHO it was to refresh the ice in the cooler. Interestingly enough, this is the day that the real ZG visited the Sawgrass apartments.

June 18: KC borrows a shovel from the vacationing BB at 1:30 pm. KC returns the shovel at 2:30 pm wearing the same clothes, and the shovel is not dirty. Weather for that day - heavy rain. I think she borrowed that shovel with the intention of burying the now-three-day-old body, but due to the weather and her nerves, she chickened out.

June 19: KC and Tony meet about leasing an apartment together. KC does not have her ID - left in the car with the cooler and her daughter's body??? hmmmm....

June 20: Car backed into the garage for the third time - again heavy rain. She had run out of gas, and AL had to take her to get the gas cans. Heavy rain again. Where the heck is the car when she isn't backing it into the garage??? Where was she parking it?? I think she had to keep backing it into the garage in order to replace and refresh the ice in the cooler. I think the cadaver dog hit in the back yard is where she dumped the ice/melted water from the cooler. I believe this is the day she dumped the body. It was raining and she was getting tired of removing the melted water from the cooler. I think the melted water is what eventually ended up stinking in the carpet of the trunk. Additionally, the cell phone pings indicate that she was close to the Anthony house from 1:44 pm until 2:18 pm that day. Before and after those times, she was near AL's apartment.

In summary - body dumped between 1:44 pm and 2:18 pm on June 20th.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

I believe it had to be the 19th or 20th IMO...I can't understand why people think it was as late as the 24th...the body farm info says at some point, something was left in the trunk to decompose, and when it was at approx 2.6 days decomp, it was removed from the trunk...so if the body was dumped as late as the 24th, your looking at a DOD of 6/21...when she was not at the A's at all, so this totally changes the crime scene...also, if that's the case, where is Caylee from 6/16 to 6/21 when no one sees her and there is no way a child survives in a car trunk for five days in Florida???? Plus, after the 20, she's not shovel borrowing anymore, not pulling in backwards anymore, not at the A's from 2-4 as she was every other day that week...it's a marked change in behavior which indicates to me that she's already disposed of the body...disposal on the 19 or 20 does gel better with body farm evidence if DOD was 6/16, which is the last day anyone sees her alive...

 

[Rumpole]

I believe it had to be the 19th or 20th IMO...I can't understand why people think it was as late as the 24th...the body farm info says at some point, something was left in the trunk to decompose, and when it was at approx 2.6 days decomp, it was removed from the trunk...so if the body was dumped as late as the 24th, your looking at a DOD of 6/21...when she was not at the A's at all, so this totally changes the crime scene...also, if that's the case, where is Caylee from 6/16 to 6/21 when no one sees her and there is no way a child survives in a car trunk for five days in Florida???? Plus, after the 20, she's not shovel borrowing anymore, not pulling in backwards anymore, not at the A's from 2-4 as she was every other day that week...it's a marked change in behavior which indicates to me that she's already disposed of the body...disposal on the 19 or 20 does gel better with body farm evidence if DOD was 6/16, which is the last day anyone sees her alive...

Caylee killed 16th and in trunk. Decomposition for 2-3 days (19th) then wrapped and bagged which stopped decomposition gases and fluids leaking into trunk.
Dumped after near miss with GA and Gas Cans. 24th

 

[Irish_Eyes]

I know some people say that it doesn't make sense that the trunk still smelled on July 15 if she dumped the body early, but supposedly, the car STILL smelled when JB's team was allowed to inspect it and that was quite a while later...so either way, 20 or 24, the car still smelled for a long long time...

Also, do you really think she was wrapped that airtight that no fluids or gasses leaked out after 2.6 days? Didn't the skull fall out when the meter reader nudged the bag? That would seem to suggest it wasn't wrapped terribly tightly and certainly not airtight...

Finally, something I'm just wondering about...The body farm report first states there was pizza in the trunk, then corrects itself to say there was not pizza...we know there was a pizza box...In the first report, it states that the pizza in the trunk would have been decomposing aerobically... I thought that odd...I just assumed being in the trunk itself meant something would be decomposing anaerobically, but apparently there must still be enough oxygen in a trunk for aerobic decomposition to occur...The report states that an anaerobically decomposing human was in the trunk at the stage of 2.6 days decomp...This would mean that the body had to be in the garbage back for most of those 2.6 days to be decomposing anaerobically...also that the leaked fluids were transfered to the trunk at the 2.6 day point and not later or they would show a higher level of decomp...this probably happened when she moved the body...

 

[Rumpole]

I know some people say that it doesn't make sense that the trunk still smelled on July 15 if she dumped the body early, but supposedly, the car STILL smelled when JB's team was allowed to inspect it and that was quite a while later...so either way, 20 or 24, the car still smelled for a long long time...

Also, do you really think she was wrapped that airtight that no fluids or gasses leaked out after 2.6 days? Didn't the skull fall out when the meter reader nudged the bag? That would seem to suggest it wasn't wrapped terribly tightly and certainly not airtight...

Finally, something I'm just wondering about...The body farm report first states there was pizza in the trunk, then corrects itself to say there was not pizza...we know there was a pizza box...In the first report, it states that the pizza in the trunk would have been decomposing aerobically... I thought that odd...I just assumed being in the trunk itself meant something would be decomposing anaerobically, but apparently there must still be enough oxygen in a trunk for aerobic decomposition to occur...The report states that an anaerobically decomposing human was in the trunk at the stage of 2.6 days decomp...This would mean that the body had to be in the garbage back for most of those 2.6 days to be decomposing anaerobically...also that the leaked fluids were transfered to the trunk at the 2.6 day point and not later or they would show a higher level of decomp...this probably happened when she moved the body...

Plenty of the really clever chaps here say 19th or 20th and I can see the arguement for that. My guess that it was 24th is because KC was only 1 min away from the dump site and she was obviously very worried about her father getting anywhere near her car's trunk.

I have found stuff about aerobic etc. My reading is that of the 5 critical chemicals found, 4 appear in both aerobic and anaerobic decomp.
A test compariason of mushroom and pepperoni pizza was done by placing in original box and left to decompose aerobically.
Also some discussion of Fluorides being more readily produced in deprived oxygen conditions, but fluorides were not an important factor in this case. Hypothesised that a child will not have absorbed enough fluorides.

There is quite a bit of oxygen in a car trunk and not sealed airtight to the outside or the rest of the car. There were live flies in there and I am sure they required oxygen to survive

I manage to seal our household garbage every week. Smell and liquid tight. I wouldn't expect it to still be intact after 6 months outside in all weather including hurricanes.

 

[Reannan]

I think the 2.6 day decomposition estimate may be skewed because the decomposition could have been delayed by the body being on ice. I think KC freaked out about GA going near the trunk because KC new there was a stain in there and it WAS starting to smell bad, and she just didn't want Georgia to ask what the smell was and/or what the stain was from. Even in the absence of the body, the stain was enough to cause the steadily increasing horrible smell. Why else did KC back the car into the garage on three seperate days? What was she doing in the garage? Looking back over the timeline, I have another question. The car was first backed into the garage on June 17th. The documents indicate she was driving TL's jeep on June 17, 18, and 19 because her car was supposedly broken down. Where was it when it wasn't parked at the Anthony house??

 

[Fandy]

Here is what I think (today, anyway):

June 15: Visitation at nursing home, argument with Cindy, murder of Caylee. I do not believe CA tucked them into bed that night.

June 16: KC moves in with TL - no Caylee in sight. (I believe the body was wrapped in the garbage bags it was eventually discovered in) and placed in a cooler in the back of the car with ice. This also happens to be the day KC is filmed renting movies with TL. :furious:

June 17: At this point, KC is starting to tell people her car has 'broken down' and she is seen driving TL's jeep (for three days - from June 17 - June 19th). She doesn't want to drive around town in the car with her garbage-bagged daughters body in a cooler in the trunk. This day is critical, however, because the neighbor (Brian B - who is home on vacation from 6/17 -6/21) sees KC back her car into the garage for the first time. IMHO it was to refresh the ice in the cooler. Interestingly enough, this is the day that the real ZG visited the Sawgrass apartments.

June 18: KC borrows a shovel from the vacationing BB at 1:30 pm. KC returns the shovel at 2:30 pm wearing the same clothes, and the shovel is not dirty. Weather for that day - heavy rain. I think she borrowed that shovel with the intention of burying the now-three-day-old body, but due to the weather and her nerves, she chickened out.

June 19: KC and Tony meet about leasing an apartment together. KC does not have her ID - left in the car with the cooler and her daughter's body??? hmmmm....

June 20: Car backed into the garage for the third time - again heavy rain. She had run out of gas, and AL had to take her to get the gas cans. Heavy rain again. Where the heck is the car when she isn't backing it into the garage??? Where was she parking it?? I think she had to keep backing it into the garage in order to replace and refresh the ice in the cooler. I think the cadaver dog hit in the back yard is where she dumped the ice/melted water from the cooler. I believe this is the day she dumped the body. It was raining and she was getting tired of removing the melted water from the cooler. I think the melted water is what eventually ended up stinking in the carpet of the trunk. Additionally, the cell phone pings indicate that she was close to the Anthony house from 1:44 pm until 2:18 pm that day. Before and after those times, she was near AL's apartment.

In summary - body dumped between 1:44 pm and 2:18 pm on June 20th.

this is a really feasible theory to me (today anyway like you said). Was there ever a cooler found in connection with Casey? Was this her JC Penny purchase? i am thinking a cooler with wheels like you take to the beach.

 

[SoonerFan]

I believe it had to be the 19th or 20th IMO...I can't understand why people think it was as late as the 24th...the body farm info says at some point, something was left in the trunk to decompose, and when it was at approx 2.6 days decomp, it was removed from the trunk...so if the body was dumped as late as the 24th, your looking at a DOD of 6/21...when she was not at the A's at all, so this totally changes the crime scene...also, if that's the case, where is Caylee from 6/16 to 6/21 when no one sees her and there is no way a child survives in a car trunk for five days in Florida???? Plus, after the 20, she's not shovel borrowing anymore, not pulling in backwards anymore, not at the A's from 2-4 as she was every other day that week...it's a marked change in behavior which indicates to me that she's already disposed of the body...disposal on the 19 or 20 does gel better with body farm evidence if DOD was 6/16, which is the last day anyone sees her alive...

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My thought, if everyone believes G.A. story regarding the 24th that K.A. came to the house and threw the cans at him this would make sense to me. G.A. said that he got within 3 ft of the car at the tow yard and smelled the car. If you believe his story regarding the 24th he made no mention of the car smelling. That leads me to believe that Caylee died on the 16th. K.A. had to have her in the backyard for at least a day, maybe in the sandbox, for the dogs to hit in the area. She came back to the house on the 17th and borrowed the shovel. Put Caylee in the trunk and possibly placed her at the park where her cell phone pings. On the 24th she got nervous after being confronted by G.A. regarding Caylee and went back to where she had placed the body. She put her in the trunk and Caylee was there until the 27th. K.A. placed her in the area Caylee's body was found, went to the A's home, got groceries, dumped the car and call T.L. to come and get her. Makes sense as A.H. said K.A. started talking to her about the smell in the car. If G.A. isn't telling the truth, then she probably left her in the trunk for 3 days and the smell got so bad, that she finally decided where to put her and dumped her body on the 19th or 20th.

 

[Rumpole]

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My thought, if everyone believes G.A. story regarding the 24th that K.A. came to the house and threw the cans at him this would make sense to me. G.A. said that he got within 3 ft of the car at the tow yard and smelled the car. If you believe his story regarding the 24th he made no mention of the car smelling. That leads me to believe that Caylee died on the 16th. K.A. had to have her in the backyard for at least a day, maybe in the sandbox, for the dogs to hit in the area. She came back to the house on the 17th and borrowed the shovel. Put Caylee in the trunk and possibly placed her at the park where her cell phone pings. On the 24th she got nervous after being confronted by G.A. regarding Caylee and went back to where she had placed the body. She put her in the trunk and Caylee was there until the 27th. K.A. placed her in the area Caylee's body was found, went to the A's home, got groceries, dumped the car and call T.L. to come and get her. Makes sense as A.H. said K.A. started talking to her about the smell in the car. If G.A. isn't telling the truth, then she probably left her in the trunk for 3 days and the smell got so bad, that she finally decided where to put her and dumped her body on the 19th or 20th.

There were 3 weeks between 24th June and 15th July. Smell much worse.

In your timeline when did KC go back to Tony's to get a bag of his rubbish?

 

[SoonerFan]

There were 3 weeks between 24th June and 15th July. Smell much worse.

In your timeline when did KC go back to Tony's to get a bag of his rubbish?

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K.C. stayed with T.L. the week of 22-28. I would think it would have been one of those mornings during that week
that she put the trash in her trunk. Maybe someone has the answer to that question.

 

[creativeamanda]

I think the park as a potential dump site at one point is a definite possibility, as she kept telling LE that is one of the places ZG frequented with Caylee. The cooler theory is a good one. Is it possible that the cooler itself was dumped in a dumpster near the park?

I think Caylee was dumped the 1st time around the 20th. KC got nervious, took some garbage bags, and retrieved Caylee very soon thereafter and dumped her in the last location on the 24th.

 

[Reannan]

There were 3 weeks between 24th June and 15th July. Smell much worse.

In your timeline when did KC go back to Tony's to get a bag of his rubbish?

I believe the body was stored in a cooler in the trunk of her car on June 17, 18, and 19 because that was when her car had supposedly broken down, and she drove Tony's jeep those three days. We know her car wasn't broken down however, because the neighbor saw her on the 18th back her car into the garage for the first time. If she was driving Tony's jeep those three days, she probably got the bag of trash during one of those days. I can't figure out why she got his trash, and why she placed it in the trunk of her car - unless she also got a cooler from Tony?? Ideas??

 

[Reannan]

There were 3 weeks between 24th June and 15th July. Smell much worse.

In your timeline when did KC go back to Tony's to get a bag of his rubbish?

I believe the body was stored in a cooler in the trunk of her car on June 17, 18, and 19 because that was when her car had supposedly broken down, and she drove Tony's jeep those three days. We know her car wasn't broken down however, because the neighbor saw her on the 18th back her car into the garage for the first time. If she was driving Tony's jeep those three days, she probably got the bag of trash during one of those days. I can't figure out why she got his trash, and why she placed it in the trunk of her car - unless she also got a cooler from Tony?? Ideas??

 

[Reannan]

There were 3 weeks between 24th June and 15th July. Smell much worse.

In your timeline when did KC go back to Tony's to get a bag of his rubbish?

I believe the body was stored in a cooler in the trunk of her car on June 17, 18, and 19 because that was when her car had supposedly broken down, and she drove Tony's jeep those three days. We know her car wasn't broken down however, because the neighbor saw her on the 18th back her car into the garage for the first time. If she was driving Tony's jeep those three days, she probably got the bag of trash during one of those days. I can't figure out why she got his trash, and why she placed it in the trunk of her car - unless she also got a cooler from Tony?? Ideas??