Poll: Did Casey Really Keep Caylee in the Trunk Before Caylee Died?

[racegirl72]

I know this is off topic, but I thought they were releasing new documents this week??
Anyone heard anything?

 

[gitana1]

That's interesting to me Dot because it's almost what I've imagined the purpose of duct tape on Caylee was. My theory has been that KC, after fighting with her mom on the night of the 15th, lashed out at Caylee, injuring her tremendously. She may have shook her, through her onto the bed, down to the ground, or something that could have caused paralysis or a near death condition. Rather than risk CA seeing Caylee in this condition or as a way to shorten her suffering and bring about her inevitable death, she duct taped her mouth and nose. Heart sticker says I'm sorry that I hurt you. In KC's mind, this would be an accident because she never intended to kill her just lost her temper and injured her fatally. I think this happened in KC's bedroom and being stuck in the house with a dying child and her parents in another room, she had to do something to quiet Caylee and end her suffering. When CA and GA were asleep, KC wrapped Caylee in the blanket and put her in the trunk. She went back to her room, locked her door and remained there, pretending to be asleep with Caylee until the coast was clear.

Except, there were searches for chloroform, "missing kids" and methods of killing someone, like neck breaking, on the computer casey used, months before Caylee was killed. This was no accident. casey methodically planned to kill her child who she felt was a millstone around her neck. I firmly believe she drowned her in the family pool or suffocated her at her home and then tried to stage a drowning but thought better of reporting such an "accident". So, she buried Caylee briefly in the backyard, then had second thoughts, and put her in the trunk where Caylee lay rotting for a few days until the smell got too intense and casey had to dump her somewhere, quick.
I don't believe casey used the trunk as a babysitter because besides the prohibitive Florida heat (which no one who hasn't experienced it could not understand), the timeline is pretty tight as far as where Caylee was in the weeks before she was murdered and with whom. Mom pretended to be working when she wanted to go out and Caylee stayed with CA. When CA refused to babysit anymore at night, having conclusively determined that mom was lying about working, casey took Caylee to Ricardos at night when she wanted to get out, or stayed home with Caylee, seething, and throwing fits at not being allowed to dump Caylee with her parents on yet another night. This is all very clear from the timeline, the pings and the phone calls, texts, etc.
casey determined long before she murdered her baby, that Caylee was keeping her imprisoned - she did not or could not support herself so she needed a free ride but was "beholden" to her parents for that ride in the sense that they wanted her to prove she was working if she wanted to go out and leave Caylee with them. casey wanted the freedom to go out on a regular basis as young people without kids often can, but she was had a child and was unwilling to work and be independent such that she could hire sitters, etc.. As her parents put more pressure on her to work, or get an education and take care of her responsibilities as a mother, casey determined that killing her baby would solve the problem that caused her loss of freedom. But, when she actually carried through her plan, she realized it was not as perfect as she thought and pnaicked about what to do with Caylee's body. Hence, the trunk.

 

[RR0004]

missmybaby,

Why do you think there would be trace amounts if there was enough chloroform to keep someone out for hours.

(Actually, if they were to survive, it would have to be administered in a chloroform drip and even then it was discarded for surgery because it didn't keep the patients consistently unconscious for long enough periods of time.)

My understanding -- and I'm a lightweight on this -- is that chloroform would not be expected to be detected by mass spectrometry or gas chromatography methods of testing months after death from "remains" (no soft tissue). It is too unstable and evaporates too quickly to be contained by the body and stored in the bone fragments.

...but high levels were found in the trunk.
Now, if Casey had already removed Caylee from the trunk prior to the last gas incident (the 24th I believe)...wouldn't that opening of the trunk have pretty much eliminated a lot of it? Does it go to figure then that she placed her back in the trunk sometime after that...but just for a couple of days...cause we know she wasn't with the car when Casey dropped it on the 27th? I'm just curious if all this "trunk opening" wouldn't have some how let out all the gas. Sorry if that's "out there". But, if trace disappears so quickly. IMO for high levels to be present the gas would have to attach itself to something that stayed put.

PS- I'd really like to find out if there was a whole lot of cleaning going on when that car got back to the house.

(It's doubtful products caused that reading, but I don't think they've yet tested all combinations.)

 

[KenoshaKid]

I think it was first part of June the Boyfriend goes to sleep with KC and Caylee in bed with him - he wakes up and Caylee is gone, KC says mother called in the night and had her take Caylee home, CA was asked about this and said it never happened. Where did she put Caylee?

I think CA just lied about it because it made KC sound trashy. I believe KC did bring her home.

 

[magic-cat]

I'm asking this question simply because the more I think about it the less I'm inclined to believe that even KC kept Caylee in the trunk of the car at any time before she was killed. I'm thinking it's Florida, extremely hot, even at night it can be stifling, especially inland, and I doubt that Caylee would have survived for hours, drugged or not, in the trunk of a car while KC partied. At Florida temperatures, any person would be dead after just a few minutes with very little air circulation. I don't know, it just doesn't seem plausible that Caylee would survive even one night in the trunk of a car. I DO wonder, though, what KC was doing with Caylee on the nights when it seemed that neither she nor her mother had Caylee.
So, please vote your answer and make your case. I'm curious as to whether or not others have re-thought this scenario.


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PattyG adding: Please stay on topic of the thread!

I think Casey put Caylee in the trunk twice. I think it is highly possible that she was already dead when she placed her there the first time, but some part of me believes that she duct taped her whole FACE, soaked a rag with chloroform and threw both Caylee and the soaked rag into the trunk. The end for Caylee. I think she removed Caylee from the trunk, and bagged her up tightly and hid her somewhere in the backyard for a short period of time, possibly in the sandbox with the lid on (which would have provided an oxygen deprived environment) or she may have buried her in the landscaping, who knows with creepy Casey? Then when she borrowed the shovel it was for the purpose of putting her BACK into the trunk. It was at THIS point that I believe the bag tore and decomp spilled into the trunk and this is when I think she placed her in the laundry tote and tossed her back into the trunk. I believe this because for some reason George and Cindy had a REASON to search their backyard before LE did and before they knew that Caylee was dead. They smelled something either in the garage or the dogs alerted them by digging around or they smelled something in the yard, but for some reason they searched their own yard to see if their sicko daughter might have buried Caylee there. Why is the question that has never been asked nor answered.

Wow, you sluethers are good!

June 19th? I would think Casey's car would smell by then, and am eager to find out why it wouldn't.

Many of you have mentioned Amy's car being used as a temporary holding place - does that mean you must not think Caylee was buried in the woods on June 18th?

Tony saying he was in her car June 19th is a completely new fact for me. The subject might qualify for a new thread of its own cause I want to hear more. Very, very interesting. Great job, Jolynna.

Her car would not have smelled by then IF she had JUST placed Caylee in there the day before when she borrowed the shovel which was the 18th I believe? She likely wiped up the decomp with the wad of papertowels, and then threw them into the garbage bag and the stain itself would take a day or two to make the entire car wreak like that.

I personally believe that Casey killed Caylee in cold, calculated blood, and that Caylee may very well have still been alive when she went into the trunk.

 

[shgrbkr]

Of course, being the one who asked this question, I voted no for the reasons i stated initially. I'm impressed by the rationales I've read regarding those who think she HAD kept or put Caylee in the trunk at various times prior to the murder. I had asked this mainly because it comes up repeatedly in various Caylee threads, but it just doesn't jive with my common sense. I haven't been on here since the 15th due to serious family issues. I miss reading here everyday. Thanks to a very good friend who is letting me stay with her, I got to read tonight.
God bless each and everyone of you and fill your lives with love. I appreciate WS as being interesting, full of intelligent people with the ability to Calgon me up and "take me away from here!"
Thanks to you all.

Nancyb

 

[doogiesgirl]

You are welcome.

What I think is really interesting is the call from the Anthony house to KC in the wee hours of the morning and KC heading home immediately afterwards. The VERY SAME THING had happened the week before too. Besides Cindy's control issues, I wonder if Caylee had some bedtime issues.

Cindy said Caylee wouldn't take naps in her own bed and that KC had to lie down with her, I wonder if Caylee was waking up while KC was gone and throwing hissy fits at 2 & 3 a.m.? Even if Ricardo doesn't seem like the most romantic kind of guy (IMO), surely KC and he would have preferred NOT to have to share their bed with Caylee?

Somebody here showed a log of KC's texts and phone calls during the last two weeks of Caylee's life. When KC WAS home, she spent almost every minute texting and talking. Even on Cindy's birthday. There had to have been friction between KC and Cindy about KC doing her share of helping care for Caylee. Lots of times in instant messages and texts, KC says she has to go help her mother with Caylee.

Shirley was on Cindy to be stronger about KC's stealing. Cindy was calling KC and forcing her to come home while she was blissfully in the arms of her greatest love, ever. A counselor was telling Cindy to kick KC out and go for custody of Caylee. When KC was home she texted & talked on the phone and Cindy was probably resentful. George admits he and Cindy were considering going for custody of Caylee. Caylee's language skills were increasing and she probably talked about Tony not Zanny. All the tension in the house would have made Caylee clingier when both Cindy and KC's nerves were frayed and raw.

One thing this case doesn't lack is motive.

We live in a fairly recently built sub division and we have electricity issues all the time. When our AC can't run b/c of the electric going down, it is stifling here. Too hot to sleep or eat or do anything. I don't believe it would be possible for Caylee to sleep in KC's car. I can see her dozing off in her car seat while KC is driving here and there but to actually try and lay her down to nap? NO WAY. The heat in Florida would be 5X worse than where I live. I do however think it possible that she kept her in the trunk for a couple of days after death. Because of the heat in FLA, is probably why the smell got so bad after just a couple days. MOO

I can't thank you enough for putting up that post showing where KC was from June 8 (?) to June 15th or so. TY TY TY! Anyways, I thought I read or it was discussed that KC wasn't at home on CA's 50th B-day and that she didn't even call her. Was that incorrect info? Do you know off the top of your head? THX JMO

 

[doogiesgirl]

Tony was in KC's car on June 19 when he and KC met with Mathew Crisp & a couple of Tony's friends to look at a house, according to Tony's September 8 interview. Yuri asks Tony IF he was ever IN KC's car between June 16 and June 27. Tony says that he was.

YM: …now you’ve never been in, and do you recall being in her car in that time frame
EE: Let me go back to my calendar.
TL: I think so.
YM: Hmm?
TL: I think so. There was a day, I, there was a day that actually uhm, I just actually had a conversation yesterday with uhm, with one of the prom…one of my promoters.
YM: Uh-hum (affirmative).
TL: We were, uh, well uh well, it was around the same time that I was also looking for a house.
YM: Uh-hum (affirmative).
TL: Or for an apartment house or whatever. The two dudes that I work with also looking for a place to stay. So I’m pretty sure that there was one day when I was meeting with them that she tagged along. Uhm, and she met me I think at that house, at their apartment. And then we left with her car I think and my friend’s car. And there was a time when I was in the car and there was a time when I was in his car.
YM: And when was this in the…
TL: (Sighs). I can’t…
YM: Just because (inaudible)…
TL: It had to be uh, it, it is definitely between the 16th and the 2…the, the 20th then. I’m thinking that. Maybe the, I’m not trying to give exact dates because I don’t, I don’t want to be…
YM: No, that’s fine. Uh, what, well you said you’ve been with these two guys. You guys were all going to look for a house?

http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Lazaro%20%20Tony.090808.pdf

Date KC and Tony saw M. Crisp is from June 19 linear calendar thread: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/calendar.php?do=getinfo&day=2008-6-19&c=4

Bold & underline by me.
​

Let me say this up front. I do not think AL had any part of what KC did. I actually feel bad for AL. BUT I don't think I could bank on AL's memory unless it is backed up by a couple other people. I won't go into why, I'm sure you can all guess, plus this kid has been thrust into the middle of a horror show and I don't want to cause him any more grief. MOO

 

[countzero]

Let me say this up front. I do not think AL had any part of what KC did. I actually feel bad for AL. BUT I don't think I could bank on AL's memory unless it is backed up by a couple other people. I won't go into why, I'm sure you can all guess, plus this kid has been thrust into the middle of a horror show and I don't want to cause him any more grief. MOO

The summary narrative released in March states that his pings are consistent with his interviews.

You're right, this kid has been pushed into the scum pond that JB lives in and it's totally unfair. Simply because he was acting like a 20 year old male with hormones and KC was more than willing to help release them.

 

[Jolynna]

We live in a fairly recently built sub division and we have electricity issues all the time. When our AC can't run b/c of the electric going down, it is stifling here. Too hot to sleep or eat or do anything. I don't believe it would be possible for Caylee to sleep in KC's car. I can see her dozing off in her car seat while KC is driving here and there but to actually try and lay her down to nap? NO WAY. The heat in Florida would be 5X worse than where I live. I do however think it possible that she kept her in the trunk for a couple of days after death. Because of the heat in FLA, is probably why the smell got so bad after just a couple days. MOO

I can't thank you enough for putting up that post showing where KC was from June 8 (?) to June 15th or so. TY TY TY! Anyways, I thought I read or it was discussed that KC wasn't at home on CA's 50th B-day and that she didn't even call her. Was that incorrect info? Do you know off the top of your head? THX JMO

In response to the part of your post I bolded...

Yes. That info was something Cindy told a coworker. It seems Cindy stretched the truth.

KC's pings show she was home the night of Cindy's birthday. But, KC's cell phone records show KC spent the entire night texting and talking on the phone so she wouldn't have been attentive to her mother or participated much in a birthday celebration.

I posted the links somewhere before but I can't remember which thread. It has been a little while. I'll try to find the links and stick them here when I have a chance.

 

[shgrbkr]

I agree with all who believe KC had Caylee in the trunk AFTER she killed her, but the question was whether or not one believes KC actually put her in the trunk while KC partied the night away.

 

[Lexington]

I don't think that KC used the car trunk as a babysitter for Caylee. She would have expired much sooner from the FL heat if that were the case. Also, KC would be too afraid that Caylee would be able to verbalize this to C or G. I voted no.

 

[Disguiseduser0308]

I don't believe Casey used the trunk as a babysitter. Casey had plenty of people to dump her child off with. She didn't need the trunk to babysit. The trunk only came into use when Caylee was no longer living.

 

[SoSueMe]

No, I believe she probably put Caylee on the front floorboard of her car when she partied. In the Florida heat she knew for certain Caylee would die in the trunk and she couldn't very well have left her sleeping in the carseat for everyone passing by to see. She had to conceal her some way, so I think the floorboard with maybe a blanket draped over her would have been a way to conceal her.

 

[niaa]

Just too hot in Florida to leave her in the trunk I think.

 

[Clock's Tickin]

No, the baby was already dead and packaged for disposal when placed in the trunk.

 

[The World According]

Hi Jolynna,
I doubt she kept her in the trunk,also,but voted unsure because I haven't reconciled the week before the 15th of June.I could be wrong,as other posters always remember far more than I usually do,but I thought Caylee only stayed one night at Ricardo's and not the complete night ,at that.
I'm wondering where KC and Caylee stayed that week.
Please correct me if I have missed something.

She had numerous "friends", hook ups, she stayed with whenever the mood struck her, some may be afraid of getting pulled into this mess may not have came forward, especially seeing how Jesse and Amy and Tony and the cops she slept with are publicly scutinized and blamed and have to hire lawyers. On some of her postings, to me they look like ads for sex even, "Try me, I've got tricks you've never even seen before", based on that, she may indeed have had one night stands she took the child along for, unfortunately. It makes me sad to even type that. Ricardo is the one who mentioned Casey giving Caylee nightime cold medicine to help her get to sleep, right?

 

[Intermezzo]

No, I believe she probably put Caylee on the front floorboard of her car when she partied. In the Florida heat she knew for certain Caylee would die in the trunk and she couldn't very well have left her sleeping in the carseat for everyone passing by to see. She had to conceal her some way, so I think the floorboard with maybe a blanket draped over her would have been a way to conceal her.

BBM
Repectfully disagree
Caylee would have surely died if she were placed in any part of a car in Florida, especially from April onward.

Even placing a blanket over Caylee to conceal her IMHO could cause her to have too much carbon dioxide and not enough oxygen to breath in.

:twocents:

 

[Intermezzo]

I don't believe Casey used the trunk as a babysitter. Casey had plenty of people to dump her child off with. She didn't need the trunk to babysit. The trunk only came into use when Caylee was no longer living.

I totally agree

 

[Intermezzo]

Is this the same CA who claims KC is going to win Mother of the Year? :chicken: Who claims KC didn't allow Caylee around ciggy smoke? (Unless someone happened to be smoking...) Who claimed KC would never, ever, ever harm her child, yet when she heard KC crying about something to Lee walked in and cried :cursing: out "What have you done?" The same CA who states rotting pizza in the back of the car caused the heinous odor and fed maggots? The same CA who believes it isn't a crime to lie to LE?:liar: Who told LE all of Caylee's belongings are accounted for, then in December says the blanket from her bed has been missing all along. Who knew nothing about her PI searching at the end of the block, then says her PI searched there a month before her grand daughter was found. Then on the same tape says she never said that.:hand: The CA who states over and over again her grand daughter is alive,:yes: but if she isn't A. B. D. or J is responsible, not Casey.:no: Who believes KC is a wonderful daughter who never did anything wrong in her life. The daughter who didn't steal 45G from her or steal money from her baby's piggy bank?:twocents::twocents: The CA who brought items to LE that KC claimed came from Zany's house, but didn't bring in receipts LE asked for to try and figure out KC and maybe Caylee's where abouts while they were missing. The CA who when confronted with her daughter writing a bad check to her former boyfriend to pay back a debt said "Well, she only did it once!!" The CA whose family inquired about her daughter being very pregnant, said her daughter is a :snooty: virgin? Then miraculously gave birth to a full term infant :baby: 2 months later!! The CA who knowingly gave a brush belonging to KC to LE when asked for one of Caylee's? The CA who told LE and the FBI that Zany is a catch word for babysitter and Jeff is a one size fits all name for KC's boyfriends? I'm wondering if Annabelle means any little girl and Zach means any little boy, that Caylee happens to be playing with? (She was covered A thru Z !!) The CA who said KC and Caylee were at home and tucked into their own little bed every single night. Never spent the night with a boyfriend (or 6). The Cindy who heard KC and Caylee breathing through the closed door the last morning they are reported as being at home together.:banghead: The CA who never heard of the PR trip until after Caylee went missing, but in March refused to babysit:no: Caylee so KC could go. yes:Which happens to coincide with KC looking into methods of murder with household ingredients. I think most of us can go on and on about the very, many mistruths about any subject we've ever heard her speak of. Which in my book makes every word that comes out of her mouth suspect. The same Cindy who is the mother of the woman who caused the judge to proclaimed to all :loser:"The truth and Miss Anthony are strangers." The mother who states she and her daughter are 2 of a kind and her daughter learned it all at her loving mother's knee. :doh: Yep Cindy we can all see that!! But are you sure you want to brag about it??:waitasec:

Chloroform has to be administered in very small doses at a time and would keep someone out for just a few minutes. Used in a concentration to keep someone out for hours will keep someone forever. And remember. There were no drugs found in her remains. Chloroform is metabolized very quickly, under normal use won't even stick around in the system to find traces in blood, urine or hair. But if it were done in strengths to keep someone out for hours if they happened by chance to live, I do believe there would be trace amounts.

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Great Post :clap::clap: