Poll - If you were on the Jury today

[LinasK]

homicide, actually.(typo. Personally, I don't pick on other posters for that kind of thing...) And no matter what it was ruled as, that is then further broken down into murder or manslaughter, and manslaughter covers an unintentional one while murder covers an intentional one - to my understanding. Not sitting the jury and not living in FL, I'm not familiar with exactly what the jury will be told about that or what's applicable here.

:hand:I don't believe Casey is charged with manslaughter, and I don't buy it in this case! No one whose child dies accidentally duct tapes them, not even John & Patsy Ramsey!!!:snooty::snooty::snooty:
Now, James Ray in Arizona is charged with manslaughter, and that is an appropriate charge in his trial with the Sweat Lodge Deaths...

 

[JenniferTx]

Death. She is an irredeemable psychopath and a baby killer. I remember watching the final interviews with Ted Bundy who was still trying to bargain for more time by promising to tell LE where bodies were. It was too late. I remember the utter panic and terror on his face, him, the invincible and untouchable. Finally. Justice was served. I want the same for the baby killer.

I remember seeing those final interviews with Ted Bundy who was trying to save his life for a few more months. He was claiming that he was innocent up until the very end until he thought he would try and con LE into believeing they could learn something from him by keeping him alive and studying him and the results that *advertiser censored* had on him. He made it sound like *advertiser censored* made him kill all those girls. I always thought he killed all of them because of the rejection and anger he felt after that girlfriend (Stephanie Brooks) dumped him. I think Stephanie Brooks had actually scared him for life and every girl he murdered looked like her with the straight long brown hair.

They need to fry her just like they did Ted Bundy. That witch is as guilty as sin and that adorable little girl was what was standing in her way of partying! Sickens me to no end. Fry the witch! It is cases like this one that I am a firm believer in the death penalty. Yes there are a few cases where an innocent person is sent to death row but believe me that this case is not like that.

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

If I were on the jury today, since the trial has not started, the only choice on the list I can possibly choose is OTHER.
Yes, there are numerous pieces of evidence we have seen via the Sunshine Law. Also, the media has presented us with a multitude of opinions about what all this evidence means.
However, we, the general public are not as of yet priveleged to the evidence that will actually be presented at trial. Much of the evidence we have discussed here at WS will never make it into the trial. The evidence that we are almost certain that will be presented at trial has for the most part, not yet been challenged by the defense. We are well aware of almost everything the SA will present. Unopposed, this circumstantial case seems very very strong.
If at trial, the evidence the SA presents withstands the rebuttals from the defense teams expert witnesses, and proves beyond a reasonable doubt that KC is indeed guilty of what she has been charged with, and the defense team can offer nothing in the way of evidence that provides a reasonable doubt, then my vote will change to LWOP or the DP depending upon what is proven in court.
On the other hand, (although I honestly cannot think of one) if the defense comes up with a compelling reason why KC did not report her child missing immediately, and successfully casts reasonable doubt upon the mountain of circumstantial evidence the prosecution will present, then my vote will change to guilty of a lesser charge with the amount of time being dependant on what the actual circumstances really were.
Most likely, the majority is correct and KC is guilty. But let us not forget, that at one point in history, the majority of all people in the world believed the world was flat. I need to see and hear everything presented at trial before I can choose anything other than OTHER as a juror.
As with all my posts my entire post is my opinion only.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

:hand:I don't believe Casey is charged with manslaughter, and I don't buy it in this case! No one whose child dies accidentally duct tapes them, not even John & Patsy Ramsey!!!:snooty::snooty::snooty:
Now, James Ray in Arizona is charged with manslaughter, and that is an appropriate charge in his trial with the Sweat Lodge Deaths...

Yes, One of ICA's charges are aggravated manslaughter of a child under 12...which carries at least a 30 year sentence...but she also has 4 counts of lying to authorities, don't know if they will run cuncurrent or consecutive but at least if the jury decides on the lesser included charge..she won't be able to conceive another child...she can adapt to prison, she already seems to have adapted but she is in a cell by herself...she is isolated...

She could have ended this had she just came clean. She (as she did with the fraud trial, when she pleaded guilty at the last moment), is at the end of the Universal hallway...when all this evidence we are waiting on, the K9, chloroform, hair with the death banding...she may just want to change that guilty plea...she has maintained her innocence and will probably go to prison with using she is innocent and was falsely charged....but her actions say otherwise...if the other prisoners call her names now, wait until she goes into general population...she ain't felt nothing yet! JMHO

Justice for Caylee

 

[JenniferTx]

Yes, One of ICA's charges are aggravated manslaughter of a child under 12...which carries at least a 30 year sentence...but she also has 4 counts of lying to authorities, don't know if they will run cuncurrent or consecutive but at least if the jury decides on the lesser included charge..she won't be able to conceive another child...she can adapt to prison, she already seems to have adapted but she is in a cell by herself...she is isolated...

She could have ended this had she just came clean. She (as she did with the fraud trial, when she pleaded guilty at the last moment), is at the end of the Universal hallway...when all this evidence we are waiting on, the K9, chloroform, hair with the death banding...she may just want to change that guilty plea...she has maintained her innocence and will probably go to prison with using she is innocent and was falsely charged....but her actions say otherwise...if the other prisoners call her names now, wait until she goes into general population...she ain't felt nothing yet! JMHO

Justice for Caylee

When she goes in the general population they are going to mess her up! She is going to wish she never would have done what she did! She deserves everything she has coming to her. She radiates guilt.

 

[bonniez451]

I voted LWOP only because are too many people that are innocent that have been or will be put to death and until we have a better system I cannot with good conscience vote a DP unless it's someone like Couey
If it wasn't for that, it would be the DP I believe she wanted her to stop crying for Cindy I'm not sure how, but I also do believe Caylee just happened to be Cindy at the moment in time and that's why the baby is dead. I have much anger to the damage she has done to family and friends and I really hope the jury sees that.

 

[catnron]

I was just re-watching the clip of court 4-15-2001,when Casey comes into the coutroom she has the sneaky smurk on her face, then as she is seated in between her attorneys there again is that smurk. Just watching her face and the smile it is as if she is about to bust out laughing and has a hard time trying not to. If I was on the jury, I would watch Caseys face and reactions. She has a very hard time holding the smurk in.All the attention she is gettin she loves, it is strange watching her even her eyes have that look.It is scary to look at her. Never have I thought she had a mental problem but after looking at the video I am thinking different.It is the same look as in Charles Manson face. found it, it was in today WS threads. Hope it is ok to post it. http://www.youtube.com/user/S0meRand0mName

 

[OneLostGrl]

Yes, One of ICA's charges are aggravated manslaughter of a child under 12...which carries at least a 30 year sentence...but she also has 4 counts of lying to authorities, don't know if they will run cuncurrent or consecutive but at least if the jury decides on the lesser included charge..she won't be able to conceive another child...she can adapt to prison, she already seems to have adapted but she is in a cell by herself...she is isolated...

She could have ended this had she just came clean. She (as she did with the fraud trial, when she pleaded guilty at the last moment), is at the end of the Universal hallway...when all this evidence we are waiting on, the K9, chloroform, hair with the death banding...she may just want to change that guilty plea...she has maintained her innocence and will probably go to prison with using she is innocent and was falsely charged....but her actions say otherwise...if the other prisoners call her names now, wait until she goes into general population...she ain't felt nothing yet! JMHO

Justice for Caylee

When she goes in the general population they are going to mess her up! She is going to wish she never would have done what she did! She deserves everything she has coming to her. She radiates guilt.

I can't imagine she will go into general population.. she is too high profile. I can't think Florida DOC would risk the bad press and lawsuits should something happen to her while in their custody.

 

[mysteriew]

Sitting here today I could easily vote for guilty- LWOP.

I have thought about accidental and/or manslaughter and fear to report. But the duct tape keeps me from accepting that one.

I have thought about the premeditated and that I have trouble with. Can the prosecution prove the premeditation theory? Can they prove she planned and carried out the murder? That I don't know, so will have to wait to see how the prosecution proves it. If they prove the premeditation I could easily go for DP. But I am afraid that they will have to prove COD in order to do this. Also an intent to cause her death. Based solely on a search for "neck breaking" I don't know that that would persuade me.

But first degree LWOP I could vote for easily, even not knowing exactly how she died. If she duct taped her and ended up killing her, she sat there and waited for her to die. Probably about three minutes. (If they prove she did this, I might even be persuaded to go for the death penalty.) If it was chloroform, she sat there and administered it, then when she realized it went wrong, she failed to get help for Caylee. There is also evidence she did searches on chloroform so she had to know how dangerous it's use was.

So I am pretty certain about guilt. It is the degree that I am still confused about.

 

[Uicipher]

I voted for 10-25 (Aggravated Manslaughter of a child). If there was a bit more evidence I would go LWOP, but right now I'm on the fence.

 

[Drama Queen]

If all of the information I have becomes part of the trial I would have to vote that KC recieve death. And I do not believe I have seen or heard all of what the SA has as part of the case. Nothing on the DT has been convencing to me.
An injection will be a walk in the park compared to what happened to little Caylee. Speaking of walks in the park...that is what Caylee should be doing today, hunting eggs and spending time with family, rather than the way she was denied life and then disposed of in a makeshift park, like trash and where ICA used to place her dead animals.
The facts will most likely lead to a jury convicting and at the least sentencing her to LWOP. If they do decide to seek the death penalty I wish it could be in the same mannor that little Caylee, the victim, died.
Something is not right with our system. Simple sleep vs. torture. Doesn't make any sense to me. Of course this is MOO.

 

[jon_burrows]

Thanks for posting your views. It is not easy to go against the majority. I personally appreciate everyone's views even if they differ from mine since sometimes we can become jadded and miss certain facts.

I agree with you in that I don't believe that KC killed Caylee intentionally. I go back and forth on that one. I still kind of think she put her to sleep in the trunk and got distracted and forgot about her, the tape being placed there just in case she woke up OR I think she drowned in the pool at the A's home while KC was either sleeping, on the computer or texting away ignoring her.

That being said, I DO think the way she covered up the crime and acted after the fact proves she is at the very least CRIMINALY negligent. I think she did not intentionally kill her, but she may have put her in harms way hoping or not caring if something were to happen to her. Perhaps out of spite. The way she covered up the crime is very inhumane in my opinion. No matter if the charge is Manslaughter - involuntary or Murder in the first, I believe KC will spend the majority, if not the rest of her natural life in prision. Rightfully so.

In your mothers care should be a safe place. If we can't hold a parent responsbile for the care of their child, who can we? Caylee did not deserve to die and she especially did not deserve to be discarded the way she was. I have no doubt in my mind that her last few moments alive were torture. :twocents:

BBM-Assuming your theory regarding the trunk as a babysitter is accurate, how do you think Casey was going get the duct tape out of Caylee's hair? How do you think she was going to get it off of her face without taking skin off too or at the very least, causing great pain to Caylee? Think of a band-aid times a million. A toddler's face is small, three long pieces of duct tape were used, how could that much fit without covering her nose? Also, Casey isn't mentally challenged enough not to realize that locking a toddler in a trunk during the summer months in Florida would most likely result in death, especially duct taping her face.

As for accidental drowning, if true Casey made sure she was dead by not calling 911. If she had called for help at least Caylee would have had a chance to live. She didn't act like a grieving mother who lost her daughter to an accident. Casey spent an awful lot of time messing around with her corpse, and not in a respectful manner. It seems so far fetched to have an accidental drowning then spend all that time putting that much duct tape over her face, then putting a heart sticker on top of that, then triple bagging her.

I understand we all have different perspectives regarding this case but I think murder is the only reasonable explanation.


IMO

 

[Uicipher]

As for accidental drowning, if true Casey made sure she was dead by not calling 911. If she had called for help at least Caylee would have had a chance to live. She didn't act like a grieving mother who lost her daughter to an accident. Casey spent an awful lot of time messing around with her corpse, and not in a respectful manner. It seems so far fetched to have an accidental drowning then spend all that time putting that much duct tape over her face, then putting a heart sticker on top of that, then triple bagging her.

I understand we all have different perspectives regarding this case but I think murder is the only reasonable explanation.


IMO

Casey is clearly a disturbed and disturbing person. However, the fact that she spent that much time messing with the corpse leads me away from premeditated murder (although possibly felony murder). Remember Scott Peterson? He killed his wife, dumped her body in an area where she was highly unlikely to be found, in an area an hour away from where he lived, using a boat no one knew about. Then he immediately reported his wife missing and pretended to look for her. Now contrast this with Casey who has no idea what to do, may have actually tried to bury the body in the sandbox moved the body to the car where it decomposes for at least a week, then dumps the body in an area where she was known to frequent, walking distance from where she lived. Then she tried to act as if nothing happened hoping everyone would somehow forget she had a kid. This is why I have a very hard time believing she planned this.

 

[snowbun]

BBM-Assuming your theory regarding the trunk as a babysitter is accurate, how do you think Casey was going get the duct tape out of Caylee's hair? How do you think she was going to get it off of her face without taking skin off too or at the very least, causing great pain to Caylee? Think of a band-aid times a million. A toddler's face is small, three long pieces of duct tape were used, how could that much fit without covering her nose? Also, Casey isn't mentally challenged enough not to realize that locking a toddler in a trunk during the summer months in Florida would most likely result in death, especially duct taping her face.

As for accidental drowning, if true Casey made sure she was dead by not calling 911. If she had called for help at least Caylee would have had a chance to live. She didn't act like a grieving mother who lost her daughter to an accident. Casey spent an awful lot of time messing around with her corpse, and not in a respectful manner. It seems so far fetched to have an accidental drowning then spend all that time putting that much duct tape over her face, then putting a heart sticker on top of that, then triple bagging her.

I understand we all have different perspectives regarding this case but I think murder is the only reasonable explanation.


IMO

I totally agree with you. You have expressed exactly how I think...I don't find any other explanation reasonable because it doesn't fit with all the evidence I have read in the discovery released so far. This case truly does have alot of "pieces" that when put together complete the reasonable explanation of murder. IMO

 

[jon_burrows]

Casey is clearly a disturbed and disturbing person. However, the fact that she spent that much time messing with the corpse leads me away from premeditated murder (although possibly felony murder). Remember Scott Peterson? He killed his wife, dumped her body in an area where she was highly unlikely to be found, in an area an hour away from where he lived, using a boat no one knew about. Then he immediately reported his wife missing and pretended to look for her. Now contrast this with Casey who has no idea what to do, may have actually tried to bury the body in the sandbox moved the body to the car where it decomposes for at least a week, then dumps the body in an area where she was known to frequent, walking distance from where she lived. Then she tried to act as if nothing happened hoping everyone would somehow forget she had a kid. This is why I have a very hard time believing she planned this.

Statistically mothers dump their murdered children close to home whereas fathers dump them farther from home. Casey did what most mothers do when they kill their child.

There were a lot of cell phone pings in the airport area. LE established a pattern and this was unusual for her. There were lots of places to dump a body there and that's why a lot of searches were conducted in that area. Maybe her plan was to dump Caylee there but for whatever reason she changed her mind.

The decomp in the car was 2.7 days I believe, not a week.

Lastly, Casey is no criminal genius. She got caught all the time stealing, lying, etc. She doesn't plan anything. Most murderers get caught, there is no perfect crime.


Casey was stealing money out of Caylee's piggy bank and gas out of the shed--kind of puts it in perspective how desperate she was to get money. She may have simply not had enough gas to dump Caylee farther from home.

Casey and Scott grew up in two different worlds. Scott lived a privileged life, traveled often, and went to college. Casey rarely left Orlando, dropped out of high school, and her family lived from paycheck to paycheck.


IMO

 

[Uicipher]

Statistically mothers dump their murdered children close to home whereas fathers dump them farther from home. Casey did what most mothers do when they kill their child.

There were a lot of cell phone pings in the airport area. LE established a pattern and this was unusual for her. There were lots of places to dump a body there and that's why a lot of searches were conducted in that area. Maybe her plan was to dump Caylee there but for whatever reason she changed her mind.

The decomp in the car was 2.7 days I believe, not a week.

Lastly, Casey is no criminal genius. She got caught all the time stealing, lying, etc. She doesn't plan anything. Most murderers get caught, there is no perfect crime.


Casey was stealing money out of Caylee's piggy bank and gas out of the shed--kind of puts it in perspective how desperate she was to get money. She may have simply not had enough gas to dump Caylee farther from home.

Casey and Scott grew up in two different worlds. Scott lived a privileged life, traveled often, and went to college. Casey rarely left Orlando, dropped out of high school, and her family lived from paycheck to paycheck.


IMO

You make some good points, however:
If she didn't plan anything how can we have premeditated murder?
Casey stole enough money in checks to pay for gas, she's just as you said not someone who plans anything. Again I'm not saying premeditated murder requires that she be a criminal genius, I'm saying that it requires SOME degree of planning.

I don't buy the idea that ms highschool dropout decided to google the directions for chloroform, actually make it, then use it, and didn't ask the obvious question of "What do I do with the body?"

I'm on the fence between two theories.
Either:
A) Caylee died of an accident, ex: in the pool. She panics (if memory serves correctly there were a bunch of calls to Cindy's phone just before she disappears), and being a sociopath narcissist decides that it is not in her best interest to call the police as it would threaten her immediate freedom (the irony being that if this is true, she would have walked).

B) Casey was drugging Caylee with Xanax which are often referred to as Zanny pills. Caylee dies, she panics, and doesn't call the police.

If A) is true Casey is guilty of aggravated manslaughter.
If B) is true Casey is guilty of felony 1st degree murder

 

[LolaMoon08]

Just a heads up. It is only April 23rd. Today, when I went to get in my car, the temperature inside the car was 101 degree's... at 5:00pm. Even if Casey left Caylee in the trunk of that car on June 16th, 2008... she knew it would cause Caylee's death! Especially with duct tape over her face!

I live 3 hours SW of Orlando.

 

[Uicipher]

No offense to the person bringing it up but the trunk theory doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Who leaves their kid in the trunk in the Florida summer with the expectation the kid will survive? Also if she did leave Caylee in the trunk and Caylee died, that isn't manslaugter, it's felony murder (murder in the first degree).

 

[katydid23]

Casey is clearly a disturbed and disturbing person. However, the fact that she spent that much time messing with the corpse leads me away from premeditated murder (although possibly felony murder). Remember Scott Peterson? He killed his wife, dumped her body in an area where she was highly unlikely to be found, in an area an hour away from where he lived, using a boat no one knew about. Then he immediately reported his wife missing and pretended to look for her. Now contrast this with Casey who has no idea what to do, may have actually tried to bury the body in the sandbox moved the body to the car where it decomposes for at least a week, then dumps the body in an area where she was known to frequent, walking distance from where she lived. Then she tried to act as if nothing happened hoping everyone would somehow forget she had a kid. This is why I have a very hard time believing she planned this.

Casey did not plan this in a skillful or well thought out way. She thought things through a moment or two ahead, for the most part. She never told her family she was not graduating until her grandparents were actually sitting in the audience. She walked the homicide detectives down the hall of Universal and did not tell them she lied until they reached for the doorknob of her supposed office there. She only planned things out a minute or two in advance. But even a minute can be construed legally as 'pre-meditated' murder.

Personally I believe that she looked up chloroform and neckbreaking in response to her hatred towards her parents. She had been promising her friend Amy that her mom was going to 'sign the house over' to her and the would soon become room mates. I think she was going to do away with them and try to make it look like a home invasion. But the big fight on Father's Day changed everything. She was so angry at her mom and afraid she was going to try and get custody. She decided, maybe just a moment or two in advance, to kill Caylee to prevent her parents from getting that chance. She thought that all they cared about was Caylee and not her anymore. She would show them. And she did.
But she did not plan it out too well. I think she did try and find a different place to bury the body. She drove around quite a bit in the area surrounding the airport. But she never actually did the deed there. I think she felt more comfortable in her own little childhood dumping grounds.

 

[Harmony 2]

I cannot discount that there were google searches for chloroform and its ingredients and that there were massive amounts of chloroform on the trunk liner. George and Cindy were at work during those searches. Cindy said under oath that she did not own any chloroform. It would be a huge coincidence if they cleaned and it just so happen to mix into chloroform when they were not aware of the searches months earlier.

I believe Casey did have a plan but it did not work out. Her plan was to bury a deceased Caylee in the backyard behind the pool.


The flurry of calls has been used as a nexus for an accident theory. There were other flurry of calls in the records. Casey did it often to check and see where her parents were, to set up babysitting, and to extend an argument that had occurred. Mark Furhman did not know the case and got his information from the Anthony family. His statement got way overblown. Here are two examples of flurry of calls on June 9, 2008 and June 24, 2008.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3239452&postcount=240"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - George/Lexus & Casey's Contact Pattern[/ame]

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3225518&postcount=11"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Ping Map for June 24, 2008 - Discuss that day only[/ame]



Here are the results of the toxicology report:

I voted for ‘other’ because LWOP was not listed… Now I am aware that in Florida there is no LWP…