Poll: Was Shannan Gilbert Murdered?

[fieldnotes]

I was on OP today. I pulled over by the OB and peered into the brush. That crap is thick.

I agree. Pretty much impenetrable.

 

[LINative13]

Field notes- you ever consider that SG ran into that crap from OP instead of from the area where the houses are?

 

[fieldnotes]

Field notes- you ever consider that SG ran into that crap from OP instead of from the area where the houses are?

I don't see how it's possible. It's just too thick to get through. I think she was essentially trapped, soaking wet, in a weakened state and succumbed to the elements under a tree. That's my best bet. But that's just me.

 

[Puggle]

Just thinking about suggestions of someone's involvement..........I have been following another case where a neighbour had essentially inserted herself in the middle of ....sorry for lack of better words...the drama....turns out she had nothing to do with the case. But this person by her words and even deeds made many suspicious of her and question her possible involvement. Sometimes there are just these weird personality types that like attention focused on them and with this case and the one I am referencing...both people came across as the sticky beck, good doers, wanting to seem important in their own mind types......Sorry...bit off topic...

 

[Puggle]

I don't see how it's possible. It's just too thick to get through. I think she was essentially trapped, soaking wet, in a weakened state and succumbed to the elements under a tree. That's my best bet. But that's just me.

One thing that really peeves me about all this.....if she was seen heading in that direction...why didn't the police send people to search in that area in the first place. And then what...months later...Mr Malia either on request or simply out for an opportunity to do further training on his own initiative (Still can't confirm which it was...as msm has conflicting info)....we'll lets look further up the road...away from the direct area....

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I don't see how it's possible. It's just too thick to get through. I think she was essentially trapped, soaking wet, in a weakened state and succumbed to the elements under a tree. That's my best bet. But that's just me.

I'm on the fence with respect to what actually happened to Shannan, primarily because, to me, it's very clear that she was in some kind of drug induced stupor. I don't doubt for a second that she was terrified when she placed the 911 call, but I do question whether those fears were rational. Let's assume for a moment that Brewer did try to harm her in some way. Once her driver was inside the house, why didn't she simply leave with him? The whole point of having a driver in the first place is for protection. The fact that Shannan ran from Pak speaks volumns to me. I've heard people argue that Pak and Brewer were both somehow in on harming Shannan. Highly unlikely, imo, but let's also, for the moment, assume THAT was true. She made it to the home of Colletti where she was offered safe refuge. Certainly Colletti wasn't trying to harm her, yet she ran from his house as well. Pak claims she fell down the steps running from Brewer's. Colletti says she fell down the steps running from his house. Brewer says that when she was at his house, she went into the bathroom and emerged acting irrationally. Pak says when he got to the house, he had to ask her what movie she had seen I order to gauge how lucid she was. Colletti says when she arrived at his house, she was acting "out of it". Det. Varrone says that listening to the 911 call, it's his opinion that she was behaving irrationally. She wasn't even able to provide 911 with her present location, nor was she able to respond to their questions. Even Mari Gilbert seems to have come to the conclusion that Shannan was in some kind of drug stupor, hence her lawsuit against CPH.

So... having said all that, yes, I do think it's possible that Shannan was in such an incapacitated state that she ran into the brush, was unable to find her way out, and died there due to exposure, or possibly even a drug overdose. Is that what actually happened to her? I don't know. But given what we know...Occam's Razor, right?

ETA: I'm leaving out the mysterious phone call from CPH to Mari because I honestly don't know what to make of that. It's beyond odd. But then, CPH is one seriously odd duck, imo.

 

[marie-chantal]

Mountain Kat, you raise a really good point about her time at Colletti's house. I agree with you, and I also agree with you about CPH. I have no idea of what to make of that call. No clue.

 

[hawkshaw]

The cops not going in the direction she was last seen running never really bothered me. They got a call, and went, looked around, found nothing, and left. For all they knew it could have been some crazy call from someone that thought something was wrong. I never faulted the cops for their 'search' because that happens more often than you think. Where were they going to look. I am sure they listened for further screaming and heard nothing and left. Perfectly normal considering the circumstances. And god knows I blame SCPD for a lot of things concerning this case, including a cover-up after the fact, but not this.

 

[hawkshaw]

For a police commissioner to go public and say the SG case was not connected to the GB4 case is ridiculous. It is even more ridiculous when you consider the ME never gave a cause of death.

SG was hired off of Craigslist. The GB4 were hired off of Craigslist. All 5 are dead. The GB4 were determined to have been murdered.

There is a direct connection between SG and John Brewer. She was heard and seen running from JB's house saying 'they are trying to kill me.'

Dormer said Brewer was cleared. He said Brewer was cooperative and even took a polygraph and passed. It seems to this writer the SCPD moved heaven and earth to get Brewer out of this. The question is: Why? He is the primo suspect in all 5 deaths as far as I am concerned, and they let him go.

I know three young ladies that knew Brewer from around the neighborhood and school. They each said, "he is crazy, he did it.'' But the police don't seem to think so, or so they say.

 

[LikeAHunter]

For a police commissioner to go public and say the SG case was not connected to the GB4 case is ridiculous. It is even more ridiculous when you consider the ME never gave a cause of death.

SG was hired off of Craigslist. The GB4 were hired off of Craigslist. All 5 are dead. The GB4 were determined to have been murdered.

There is a direct connection between SG and John Brewer. She was heard and seen running from JB's house saying 'they are trying to kill me.'

Dormer said Brewer was cleared. He said Brewer was cooperative and even took a polygraph and passed. It seems to this writer the SCPD moved heaven and earth to get Brewer out of this. The question is: Why? He is the primo suspect in all 5 deaths as far as I am concerned, and they let him go.

I know three young ladies that knew Brewer from around the neighborhood and school. They each said, "he is crazy, he did it.'' But the police don't seem to think so, or so they say.

Or they have DNA, and he didn't match. For me, that's the only reasonable explanation, because I always thought it HAD to be him.

And even if there was no semen found on/in the bodies, I'd be shocked if a single hair from the killer's head wasn't found on at least one of those 4 bodies wrapped in burlap.

 

[marie-chantal]

Or they have DNA, and he didn't match. For me, that's the only reasonable explanation, because I always thought it HAD to be him.

And even if there was no semen found on/in the bodies, I'd be shocked if a single hair from the killer's head wasn't found on at least one of those 4 bodies wrapped in burlap.

Excellent point about the burlap! That's definitely a fabric that will trap remnants of whatever touches it.

 

[Emre E]

Excellent point about the burlap! That's definitely a fabric that will trap remnants of whatever touches it.

Whatever material identifying the perp trapped on/in the structure of the fabric, we (the public) don't need to know that. But the fabric (burlap?) itself can be made public so that someone can recall something. Currently it is held back, just like the wood material held back for years in Tangredi and McNamee cases, in which period Mr. Bittrolff was living happily ever after... almost.

 

[Puggle]

June/July last year the FBI updated software on the DNA databases which from my understanding has been able to widen the possibility of making matches .... and they listed a few examples of cold cases that they have recently solved using this new technology.....So the probability of LISK being caught is getting closer and closer every day....He may have been as careful as he liked....but maybe it will be one of his own relatives DNA that will eventually bring him down.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

June/July last year the FBI updated software on the DNA databases which from my understanding has been able to widen the possibility of making matches .... and they listed a few examples of cold cases that they have recently solved using this new technology.....So the probability of LISK being caught is getting closer and closer every day....He may have been as careful as he liked....but maybe it will be one of his own relatives DNA that will eventually bring him down.

That's assuming, of course, that LE has LISK's dna for comparison. I'm not so sure that's the case. What if he's an upstanding pillar of the community with no arrest record, with nothing at all to tie him to any of these victims? How does LE obtain his dna profile?

 

[Really?]

Is two thats in a row like that ok in the english language?

I don't know....I never was one for grammar policing...hehe

 

[Gerontion]

Is two thats in a row like that ok in the english language?

I think that that is probably ok.

 

[Puggle]

I really do believe they have his DNA. The number of victims found increased the chances of that being the case. He may never get caught doing anything wrong to have his DNA taken - but new advances in DNA techniques mean they can still find him - if say one of his relatives has their DNA taken for any reason.....so that's why I believe it's only a matter of time. He can't control - what he has no control over

 

[hawkshaw]

I believe DNA will one day take a big hit. Just because your DNA is there doesn't necessarily mean you did it. In a famous case going back to 1989, a young man named Christopher was tried and convicted of murdering a 14 year old girl called Jessica M. His DNA was absolutely in/on the body. He denied having sex with her because she was 14 and he was 19. But the cops found a second set of DNA on the body and never identified it, nor do I think they ever attempted to ID it. I believe if they tried they would have found the real killer. But that would have upset and easier case for them.

There was a lot of information out there that proved Christopher dropped her off, alive at a local 711 store. There was also a lot of evidence that she sneaked out of her house and went partying until sunrise and then sneaked back into her house. The manager changed his story after the cops visited him for the second time. He would change his sighting to the day before.

Jessica went partying with another 14 year old girl named Wendy. Wendy went to France to continue her schooling. To the best of my knowledge she never returned to LI. When she came back to the U.S. it appears as though she went to Maine and stayed with family. She did come back and stayed in NYC. Years later Chris's parents found her coming out of her apartment in NYC, approached her and asked to speak to her. She ran away and has not been seen since.

I believe she now lives in the Boston area, grown up and she still ain't talking.

A Suffolk lawyer that some times did part time work for the Suffolk DA gave the defense an affidavit stating that he always jogs by where the body was found. He jogged by the day she was found at 7:30AM and provided an affidavit that her body wasn't there. He went back after the body was found at 9;20, and knew he would have seen it if it had been there.

This was brought to Spota's attention, and he ignored that as well as he ignored a private investigators time line sheet proving Christopher didn't do it. The Timeline sheet was several feet long. more later......

 

[hawkshaw]

more...... just because your DNA is present doesn't necessarily mean you did the crime.

How did this latest affidavit come about. My former colleague was asked by the two investigators working on the case to prove Christopher didn't do it asked my friend to ask around on LI. One day he was at a community party in Sag Harbor. He asked the lawyer cited above if he knew anything about the murder. That was when the lawyer told him what he witnessed on the day the body was found. It was an incredible stroke of good luck. The lawyer then prepared an affidavit attesting to the above.

Spota did send two of his investigators to interview my friend in Sag Harbor. They told him he was full of S... He was causing trouble trying to get a new trial for Christopher. My friend didn't know Christopher and never met him.

My friend's credentials are thus: 1. Former NYC detective in the Manhattan DA Squad 2. Former Detective Sergeant, DA Squad 3. Former Chief Investigator for the NYS Special Narcotics Prosecutor 4. Former Chief Investigator for the NYS SIC 5. Former Deputy Chief Investigator for the US Department of Labor 6. Former Chief Investigator for the NYS AG OCCTF. Need I say more?

On the day the DA Investigators visited my friend the DA put on a guy named Joe C on the stand in my son in law's case. That witnessed was roasted on the stand by my son in law's lawyer. The lawyer caught the witness in several huge lies. Anyone of those lies should have resulted in an acquittal. There were at least a 1/2 dozen lies.

The investigators received a cell phone call while they were interviewing my friend. The message was that they had a 'bad day' at the trial. One investigator said to the other about the bad day, and they had to 'go back to the office because they had a lot of work to do. more.........

 

[hawkshaw]

more....... when Spota had to give up the Marty Tankleff trial the case was passed over to the then - NYS AG Andrew Cuomo. A few weeks before the final report he sent two of his investigators up to the prison to interview Christopher. Christopher and Marty often met in the library to discuss the legalities of their cases. They were prison mates for 12 years.

The AG Investigators asked Chris if Marty ever mentioned that Marty told him if he killed his parents. At that time Chris was 7 years away from his first parole hearing. He could have lied and received some benefit for the lie. He told them that Marty NEVER said he killed his parents. Christopher, was also told he was full o.... It went on for 3 hours with a promise to come back with an attorney.

When Cuomo finished his final report saying that while there was still evidence that Marty could have done it, he never recommended an exoneration for Marty. In other words he never exonerated Marty. All that Cuomo said was at this stage of the proceedings a case couldn't be proven, and recommended the case not go to trial. Now this suited Spota just fine because he didn't have the guts to try him again, lest the truth come out.

Marty went on to sue NYS for wrongful imprisonment and was awarded a 3 million dollar settlement.

Getting a wrongful multi million dollar award is very difficult even if the appeal conclusively exonerates you of the crime. In Marty's case there never was such an exoneration as the AG said he might be guilty and they couldn't prove it. He got the award despite that pesky requirement of the law. He is now suing in federal court for the remainder of his lawsuit, and if he wins I suspect the award will be much larger.

OK, so why do I tell you this in this Thread? I tell you this so the readers can get a sense of what may be going on in this case. They are not looking for the truth and will do anything to hide it - IMO.

PS - Christopher's non statement of guilt of Marty was NEVER incorporated into Cuomo's final report. However, he did add in other alleged statements that Marty told other fellow prisoners that he killed his parents. One such prisoner was allegedly told this by Marty after meeting him for the very first time in prison. By that time Marty had already wrote 50,000 letters to persons protesting his innocence and asking for their help in proving he was innocent. Can anyone believe he told this clown he killed his parents after meeting him for the first time?

That prisoner's remarks and the remarks of other misfits was alluded to in the AG final report, but Christopher's statement was NOT!