Poll: What was the duct tape used for?

[BonKai]

Ok, it got the best of me and I had to look. I would have never even thought about that. Now it makes me wonder if it was some kind of alternative sex that KC was into even possibly on the end of making videos. If that is the case, the searches on her computer could have been related to this and s&m. That would be a shocker if none of this was related to Caylees death but KC's hard partying / possible escort ways instead - I'm sure it's far fetched but I'm just throwing it out there. I wouldn't be surprised if it was defense move though.

Hmm...interesting. So KC is a liar, promiscuous, kinky, and a thief; BUT she is not a murderer?

Either way, I see no future for KC.

 

[cloud9]

Hi everyone,
This whole duct tape and neck breaking search thing keeps bothering me. I know the ME stated that Caylee did not have a broken neck, and God knows she would certainly know more about this than I ever could. I just keep thinking that the duct tape and neck breaking issue are tied together. In other words, (and I hate to say it) that maybe Casey tried breaking her neck and little Caylee didn't die instantly. Then, she put duct tape on her for various reasons. Then, I read this:

In what kinds of cases is cause of death the most difficult to determine?
"In general, the most difficult cause of death to determine -- from a medical examiner's point of view -- are deaths from strangulation or suffocation."
"if a young person or child is strangled, they may not suffer a fracture of any of the bones of the neck."
http://www.hbo.com/autopsy/baden/qa_10.html

 

[scandi]

When LP came up with his theory about using duct tape to stop leakage I knew that wasn't the reason it had been applied. Imo, when the body begins leaking from the mouth/nose, it is also leaking from every orifice and probably the skin is leaking too, or will when touched/pulled/lifted. That would mean fluids everywhere (like the carpet in the trunk). We don't know if there was duct tape over her eyes, ears, or lower body, or even exactly how the piece we know about was positioned. I highly doubt LE thinks it was to stop leakage. IMO it was placed before she died and hopefully already unconscious.

Hi Headndownstream,

I do appreciate your post, and am comin' round to feeling the same. It has taken some time to even imagine Caylee being put in this position, having her mouth taped possibly before death. I still think the tape was put on post mortim, but believe she caused Caylee's death by maybe suffocating her, or shaking her.

It might even be when she put Caylee in the trunk and shut the lid, she was still barely alive. But she knew it would not be for long and she probably felt a great sigh of relief to match the anger she had felt towards Caylee and CA.

The first reports we got were tape over the mouth area and around the head. I have a tendency to believe that, as first reports often end up more true than not. There has been no chance for anyone to spin the info, like a lawyer or parent

The main reason I believe it is true are two things I read:

* The ME said in a very matter of fact manner it was homicide.
* LE said they didn't believe the tape was put there to feign an abduction.

I don't think she used any tape until she put the body in the bags. I think at 2.6 days the basketball stain from leakage was already on the carpet in the trunk. She might have already wrapped the body in a towel, as I think it was handy as a bathing suit was found with the body. I did read that if the body is moved within that first 2.5 days, the moving will cause more seepage and odour to come out.

And at 2.5 days the tongue would be protruding out, as is normal. I think that totally grossed her out, and since the duct tape was now in her hand, think she decided to tape it in, and the logical thing would be to give a wind around the back of the head to make sure it stayed in place.

The soft tissue was gone in a relatively short time, but IMO as the skin under the tape decomposed, stuck still to the tape, the remnants of decomp which are chemical and maybe a bit waxy like adipose, became a part of the tape. I think as the bones skeletalized, this tape loosened from the bone but was a bit rigid because of what was still adhered to it, and it maintained the shape of her mouth area. The ME would know right away it had been fixed to that area by the shape it had when discovered, and it would be still pretty much in place as it was attached to her hair all the way around the back of the head.

Just my thoughts, but believe me, I have seen hundreds of CSI and Forensic Files shows


xox

 

[inquiringmindz]

Hmm...interesting. So KC is a liar, promiscuous, kinky, and a thief; BUT she is not a murderer?

Either way, I see no future for KC.

Yes to all of the above. I don't think she has a future either - At this point her goose is cooked and she has done that on her own. I was just throwing it out there as a defense possibility. Someone, Baez I think, kept saying there was another explanation. I was just thinking that could be his explanation of the searches, she didn't want her family to know what she was doing so she made up the nanny story, Caylee died accidently and she covered it up. Far fetched - yep - but I wouldn't put it past him.

The whole missing duct tape comment made by Casey was strange....

Do I think she had a hand in this poor little girls death - absolutely.

 

[pregodego2]

Hi Headndownstream,

I do appreciate your post, and am comin' round to feeling the same. It has taken some time to even imagine Caylee being put in this position, having her mouth taped possibly before death. I still think the tape was put on post mortim, but believe she caused Caylee's death by maybe suffocating her, or shaking her.

It might even be when she put Caylee in the trunk and shut the lid, she was still barely alive. But she knew it would not be for long and she probably felt a great sigh of relief to match the anger she had felt towards Caylee and CA.

The first reports we got were tape over the mouth area and around the head. I have a tendency to believe that, as first reports often end up more true than not. There has been no chance for anyone to spin the info, like a lawyer or parent

The main reason I believe it is true are two things I read:

* The ME said in a very matter of fact manner it was homicide.
* LE said they didn't believe the tape was put there to feign an abduction.

I don't think she used any tape until she put the body in the bags. I think at 2.6 days the basketball stain from leakage was already on the carpet in the trunk. She might have already wrapped the body in a towel, as I think it was handy as a bathing suit was found with the body. I did read that if the body is moved within that first 2.5 days, the moving will cause more seepage and odour to come out.

And at 2.5 days the tongue would be protruding out, as is normal. I think that totally grossed her out, and since the duct tape was now in her hand, think she decided to tape it in, and the logical thing would be to give a wind around the back of the head to make sure it stayed in place.

The soft tissue was gone in a relatively short time, but IMO as the skin under the tape decomposed, stuck still to the tape, the remnants of decomp which are chemical and maybe a bit waxy like adipose, became a part of the tape. I think as the bones skeletalized, this tape loosened from the bone but was a bit rigid because of what was still adhered to it, and it maintained the shape of her mouth area. The ME would know right away it had been fixed to that area by the shape it had when discovered, and it would be still pretty much in place as it was attached to her hair all the way around the back of the head.

Just my thoughts, but believe me, I have seen hundreds of CSI and Forensic Files shows


xox

This is the most sense I have read about the duct tape and what would happen after decomp.
thank you.

 

[LLH]

If a 2-3 year old were shaken that vigorously, I think she would have been screaming in confusion and terror. I also think Caylee may have been very upset and crying/screaming if Cindy and Casey had a fight. Casey may have had the duct tape in her room, Amy's tape. IF casey left the house after a fight the 15th, and took Caylee with her, picture her driving around, furious, homeless, she was insecure about her relationship with TL, as per his comments about staying in NY and not wanting daughters. Caylee may have been screaming for grandma and Casey was out of control, not only with Cindy, but Caylee as well. I can see her taping Caylees mouth shut in this circumstance. I can see her giving Caylee a drug at this time as well. Hienous, yes, but possible.

 

[txsvicki]

I was googling the terms that Casey looked up last night and came across a report of a suicide of man who put a plastic trash bag over his head and inhaled odorless colorless propane. The duct tape could have been used to further seal the bag if an inhalant was used. I'm not sure how a person could disperse chloroform into a bag, but propane could be done. One of the things that LE took out of the home and lableled "porch" looked like a stainless steel connector that is used with a cannister of propane. Maybe more than one inhalant or method was used. I think people give Casey too much of a break by thinking accident or rage.

 

[Leila]

There is that cooler again. It's always bothered me "from day one". Early on when the media was camped outside the A's house, GA put the cooler in his vehicle. When asked, GA said he was going to check out leads in Georgia, making it sound like he was going on a long trip. He was back just a few hours later. I always thought if the A's wanted to get something out of the house without detection, what a great way to do it.

I remember that! And I was suspicious of that cooler at the time. I distinctly remember the media filming George opening the hatch on his car and loading that cooler in. It was a fairly large cooler, and seemed to have something heavy in it as George sort of hefted it in as if it was heavy. The thought crossed my mind that something incriminating might be in that cooler.

 

[scandi]

This is the most sense I have read about the duct tape and what would happen after decomp.
thank you.

Hi Pregodego and Thanks,

I watched Nancy Grace tonight and if one can believe Dr Perper, a forensic pathologist I think, I did learn allot - including that I was wrong about part of what I wrote. I couldn't find my above post to correct it so put the info on another thread.

The last thing he said was that the duct tape was put on during life and that Caylee died with the tape on her mouth. It wasn't what I wanted to hear!

He didn't reference it by saying it was his opinion which surprised me, so maybe he has heard this thru the grapevine which is entirely possible.

He also said he believed the duct tape was used to A} Stop her from screaming, or B} to suffocate her.

His saying this gave more understanding as to why Dr G stated with such assuredness in her manner that this was a HOMICIDE. That is the killing of one human being by another by definition. I now believe the death was not accidental but murder as she is charged.

IMO

 

[Mind student]

KC did so much research, plus viewing movies with similar themes,
IMO it was used to prevent bodily fluids from leaking.
Her fight with her mother was only the match to start the fire, KC had planned. She was no longer number ONE in anyone's life. Caylee was her rival, the cause of her life being unhappy/loss of freedom. Most important was getting back her power of control over those in her life.

Mind Student

 

[Whisperer]

Cindy knew kc very well. It is obvious that kc has a bad temper. After this episode on Father's Day, why in the world would CA allow kc to leave with this child? I know for a fact most parents would follow kc and make sure Caylee is ok. They would not allow their rage-prone daughter to leave with the child after a blow-up...no way!

It makes no sense, under the circumstances that CA would not check on these two in the morning if they were there. CA claims she listened at door....don't buy it! Did kc sneak out of the house and tape Caylee so there would be no noise. The question remains if kc left the house on the night of 15th or did she quietly smother or use the tape on Caylee to silence her while she was talking to TL all night in her own bedroom.

I have maintained from day one that kc is and always was a cruel person. I could tell that by how some of her acquaintances described her actions with Caylee. CA should have been aware of what her dd is capable of doing. If she left, they should have tracked her down, if she stayed in the house that night, it is likely one or both of the parents are hiding something.:detective:

 

[Pattymarie]

If this was a "staged-kidnapping" why in the world would Casey drive around with a dead body in her trunk for several days?

 

[creativeamanda]

The use of duct tape reminds me of the 1985 SC murders of Shari Smith (age 17) and Debra May Helmick (age 9) by serial killer Larry Gene Bell (see http://www.serialkillerdatabase.net/larrybell.html) . From the moment I heard the rumors of duct tape, I thought, suffocation.

 

[scandi]

I think you're onto something! I was beginning also to believe definitely that this is where Casey killed her when LE declared the whole house a crime scene. Also taking the vacuum cleaners. That's why George had to state he saw them leave on the 16th!

Hi Linask ;} Didn't we read they also cut sheetrock out of the garage area? I thought it odd they took sheetrock from 2 areas of the house.

 

[MaryAnn]

I voted to silence her. Perp could have done this in the home, did not want CA & GA to hear Caylee, and did not want to hear her herself.

ditto

 

[kellync]

O.K. I have a stupid question... who has said definitively that there was duct tape found with the body or attached to the skull? I know, I know, but I have read so much on this, and I have not seen anything "official". Nancy Grace is not official confirmation to me. Thanks in advance.

 

[Reannan]

I do not think we have anything official regarding the duct tape - only rumors.

 

[kellync]

I thought so. I have read so many threads and documents, I thought maybe I skipped it somewhere. I think it may exist, however, I will refrain from speculating what it was used for until I am sure it was used.

 

[natsound]

I wouldn't classify it as "rumor"... the TV stations (and I believe the newspaper) are saying "sources say there was duct tape".

I work in TV, and we would never just pick up a rumor unless someone with authority told us it was true.. but if they asked us to not mention their name we would oblige.

 

[milkymama]

I voted other. I think she used the duct tape to block body fluids from coming out of the mouth after she died.

Ditto.